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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:41 pm 
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hello everyone! i'am desperately seeking advice on my latest suboxone treatment! I will elaborate a bit on my past addictions/multiple Tx's over the past 12 1/2 yrs. I have done 4 different methadone programs, seen 3 different suboxone docs, and also have spent time in residential & intensive outpatient programs.
I have used almost every drug known 2 man, but the ones that chose me are opiates & benzos. (still on Xanax 4-8mg/day. I've cut down my habit down over the last 2-2 1/2 mos from 5-80mg. Oxicontins, and 5 to 10 Percocet 10/325mg. day. NOW I take... 2- 80 mg. Oxi's and 1 Percocet 10/325mg.
i'm now on day 5 after starting suboxone AGAIN after all these years, and even though I have cut down my habit significantly... it's still a WAY BIGGER habit than I had in the past when I was only using about 1/2 to 1g./day of tar heroin.
my doc has me now on 6- 8mg.Subs/day, plus Clonidine (.2) for my blood pressure 3 times/day.
im sooooo damn depressed & hopeless! but 4 me the worst part of all of this is that I still have almost every single withdrawl symptom, (except vomiting), so to me I can see no end in sight! even back when I had a smaller habit, it still took a couple mos. after titrating off Suboxone 2 finally feel happy and able 2 function like a "normal" person again.
I've always heard from my previous doctors that Subs won't work 2 the point u r comfortable if u have a sizeable habit. That feels EXACTLY like whats going on W/ me now. WTF? anyone heard that b 4? any advice? I'm SOOOO CLOSE 2 just saying "screw this"! At least b 4, when I was using, I was normally active and not so damn sick, in pain, lethargic, and nor did I ever have such debilitating depression. Please help :!:


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 11:10 pm 
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Hey Sick,

Im a loug time user myself, though I didnt make to heroin.
Big pill guy here. Im sorry your have this happen to you this time. Did sub work for you before?.
What im reading here from you it seems to me that you are way under dosed Sick.
After 5 days you should have bn feeling better IF your dose matched your habit. To me, it dosent.
Im not a Dr, far from it, ut maybe call your dr and talk with him about it.

Its good that you did cut back, but your tolerance isstill high imo.
I have zero experience with benzos, may there hurting you too, maybe there helping, I dont know.

It just seems to me you may be under dosed.

Hope your dr will be opened to talking ...


best to you ....razor....


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 11:20 pm 
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I was in treatment with a 50 year old heroin addict who had been using since he was 17 years old and used A LOT, this dude was about as hardcore an addict as I've ever seen it was pretty sad his life was pretty much stolen by heroin. He was on the methadone clinic for decades and he switched to suboxone a few months before he started my group, the dude took 1 8mg tablet per day and he was so happy with subs and how good they worked for him and he never had any trouble making the transition and I can pretty easily make the guess that he used more and longer than you. Its a little uncomfortable to make the switch the first week or so but to say you still "feel every single withdrawal symptom" sounds kind of ridiculous, everytime I hear something like that on a forum or thread about sub I instantly get the thought that someone is trying to start a pissing contest. My DOC at the time of my induction was Poppy pod tea and I had been drinking way too much of the stuff everyday for years and that shit is just as long lasting as methadone maybe more and also has several other active opiate alkaloids that cause horrible withdrawal symptoms and sub made me feel like a new person. You've used every drug known to man though so you might be too hardcore for sub.


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 11:26 pm 
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when I began sub,I had a VERY sizeable opioid addiction and I was underdosed at first, so I spoke to my doctor and after a dose increase I was feeling better rather soon actually and back to living a great, and normal life, feeling like I'd never used before. I've since lowered my dose on my own, but definitely needed the higher dose at first. during that first week my tolerance was actually coming down, and if I'd stayed on my original dose of twelve mgs another week probably would have had my tolerance down to where the Suboxone could've handled my wds and I'd have felt better. so imo, you could either ask your doctor to up your dose to match your tolerance, or give it a bit longer to see if your tolerance lowers to the level of sub that you're taking now. hope all works out well for you. please keep us up to date on how you're doing


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 11:21 am 
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I think Lizzie pretty much hit the nail on the head. You're more than likely on too low of a dose at the moment. You can either tough it out and wait for things to get better or try to get a higher dose.

OC's are wicked strong and even though you got your use down to 2 of the 80's, that still a lot of drug and I have to wonder how quickly you dropped from the 5 OC80's to 2. If you dropped fairly quickly, then your tolerance was still sky high.

Also, I don't quite understand this part, but I've seen several people over the years on this forum who have got on Suboxone, then went back to using drugs, back on Suboxone, back to using drugs and those folks seem to have a heck of a time stabilizing on Suboxone.

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 12:17 pm 
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I agree, it does seem that after the first time on suboxone, then back to drugs, people do have trouble.
ive seen this here in my town.

It can be done but stablizing takes louger.
It gos back to how ya view sub in the first place.

Is itvac" drug" or a medicine in the mind..

Interesting really..

Hangin in there Sick..hope today is better...


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 12:36 pm 
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"hello" 2 everyone who has responded 2 my original post! I am so thankful there r other "Junkies" out there who understand what it's like to be an addict, and also go wd's. I can't thank u all enough for your thoughts, companionship, advice, and support!! TRULY :!:
from everything I have read, researched, studied, and learned from all my previous sub doc's recently & in the past... I was always told that u had to b @ 30-45mgs. of Methadone (& in wd's for 4-5 days), no more than a 1/2g. of heroin/day, or on VERY FEW pain pills (regardless of what kind). That's why they say there is no more benefit than taking 4/ 8mg Subs. my new doc told me to take 6/ 8 mg Subs, but like I feel I already know for certain, he just told me to take 6 instead of just 4 to try 2 ease my mind.
I saw the doc on Monday am and wrote all my questions, hourly symptoms, and kept a log 4 him every hour or so about when I took the Subs, my wd symptoms, mental state @ the time, etc...
he didn't have much of an answer for me about much of anything except he was gonna refer me to a local prominent shrink here in town.
I guess the bottom line is I have soooooo damn much 2 loose, but as I'm sure u all know, when u feel like shit 4 so long, u just want all the pain 2 just FUCKING GO AWAY :x Thanks 4 listening 2 all of u!!


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 2:32 pm 
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Gawd, I wish I was back in Portland where they @ least have Methadone clinics! I wouldn't have moved 3.5 hrs away from my home from the past 8 yrs, (even though I fell in love w/ a really decent, good hearted, caring man). As far as staying sober, this IS THE BEST PLACE for me. I am literally living on the top of mountain w/ no transportation, and no way 2 even try to hook up here cause i'm not "allowed" to go 2 meetings or even talk 2 my friends on the phone that ARE sober and live hundreds of miles a way. kind of fucked up, huh? (this is my only form of communication w/ others in the same boat)1
im sure no-one has a quick fix 4 feeling better, but I just thought it wouldn't hurt 2 ask anyway. so please let me know if u have ANY IDEAS @ ALL on what will help relieve wd symptoms QUICKLY! I literally feel like im gonna go insane! I just can't stand the pain, depression, & stress anymore!
THANKS SOOOOOO MUCH EVERYONE 4 YOUR THOUGHTS & ADVICE!! :)


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 2:42 pm 
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I'm confused on how much Suboxone you're taking daily. What's your total daily dose, in mg's.

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 6:01 pm 
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hey Romeo. I'm currently taking 48 mgs. of Suboxone and then it takes about 4-5 hours after I have dissolved 2 films @ a time every 20 minutes to notice any relief @ all. I just think my habit was too big b 4 I started the Subs. Big bummer!!! Tomorrow I'm gonna try taking only 32 mgs and taking 1 @ a time & letting it dissolve for about 15 minutes. I'm not sure how less medicine will make me feel any better, (because I've been told by my previous Suboxone docs over the last 12 years, and by my own research), that more than 4 films has no extra effect. (Obviously I'm willing 2 try anything @ this point)!
What has your experience been? (if u don't mind telling me that is). Thanks 4 the reply! I REALLY appreciate it!! :)


Ps... Today I tried spitting that gawd-awful taste of the films out after they dissolved for 20 min each time in my mouth because the little bit that u can't help swallow hurts my stomach really bad. for those 20 min I don't talk or swallow cause i'm trying 2 make sure that I get every single milligram I can into me.


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 7:22 pm 
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Hi, was that a typo or are you taking 48mg of sub? If you are, do you think that's too much? I thought that sub drs didn't prescribe more that 32mg bc of the ceiling effect. Maybe you feel so bad bc of too much, not too little. I'm not sure, others on here know way more than I do about it, but just wanted to send you well wishes and hope you feel better soon. CC


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 7:29 pm 
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6 8mg tabs a day? You're on way too much Suboxone. I'd fire your doctor and find a new a new one. If I were on that much sub, I'd feel like dog's ass. Seriously, less is more. You are certainly NOT withdrawIng from 160mg of OC on 48mgs of sub.


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 7:40 pm 
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Wow, I misread your first post bad. I thought you were taking 6mg to 8mg a day. Now that I see you're taking 48mg daily, I'm thoroughly confused. I don't know anyone who has taken a dose that high, so I don't know what the effects are, but Tiny may be right in that your high dose is making you feel like a dog's ass, as she so eloquently put it. :)

If I were you, I'd try lowering my dose, but it may take a couple of days to really notice it because of how much Suboxone you have built up in your system.

Maybe Dr. J. will come by and read this thread and give his input because I'm truly kind of lost here, sickofbeingsick2014.

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 2:04 pm 
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I remember reading something by Dr. Junig that says when you dose TOO much Suboxone ie; 48 mgs/ day it actually has an antagonistic effect, so that instead if relieving your withdrawal symptoms it will make them worse. that's why doctors say there's no benefit being on a super high dose, and certainly nit that high of a dose. I'm afraid I misunderstood your first post also. 32 mgs used ti be the highest dose most docs would rx, that had since been lowered ti around 16 mgs, with a few still rx'ing 24 mgs. more Suboxone certainly won't help your symptoms. perhaps Try just taking three films per day and see how you feel, idk..... just my opinion, but I think you are over dosed majority!


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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 9:31 am 
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This guys just doesn't want to listen and take the wealth of experience this place has to offer. Your taking double the highest dose recommended and you wonder why you dont feel right? Then you complain that "you wish you had methadone clinics" well obviously you want some sort a high so maybe subs aren't for you. Just letting ya know plenty of people with habits that have dwarfed yours and mine and they do great on sub so I just kinda shake my head at these type of BS. I'll exit from the conversation before I say something that gets me banned cuz these types of "Im the biggest hardcore addict on earth" make me angry, you get em IRL at NA meetings and now apparently you get em on our forum too.


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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 11:12 am 
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One of the components of suboxone is naltrexzone (naloxone), an opiate antagonist (what Lizzie was talking about).

I once watched someone take naltrexone alone to try to get off of methadone quickly (she had to be 100% drug-free for a new job). She was on something like 30 mls/day of methadone at the time, and was prescribed naltrexone by a doctor who was very new and inexperienced at addiction medicine (this happened several years ago).

Within 30 minutes of taking naltrexone, my friend was so sick that I had to call an ambulance to get her to hospital; she was violently sick, it was a terrible experience.

As mentioned above, once you get above the upper dose limit for suboxone, maybe the naltrexone is having unpredictable effects. I'm definitely no expert, but 48 mg/day sounds like an insanely high suboxone dose.

-- JI

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 11:33 pm 
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does anybody have any idea how long I can expect 2 feel physically, mentally, & emotionally bad? I tried lowering my suboxone dose from 6 8mg. films/day to 4 8mg. films/day. still super depressed & also still having physical wd symptoms. cant get my head together. any ideas? I've recently read about PAWS or post tramatic wd syndrome. is that what i'm feeling coming off of high doses of opiates? ( I've also titrated from 10mg. of Xanax to 4mg. of Xanax in the last 3 mos. Any ideas?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:26 am 
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You may still be on too much sub. Also, it sometimes takes longer than a week for your body to physically adjust to whatever dose you are currently on, it took about two weeks for me. I've cut my dose to 10mg from twelve (my habit was considerably higher than yours) and I'm just starting to feel good after 2 weeks. Also cutting Xanax if you've been on high amounts for a long time is a BEAR. Look up Xanax withdrawal symptoms. Good luck and hope you feel better soon, CC


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