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 Post subject: Sub working?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:00 am 
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I used today. It's happened a fair bit since I've been on sub on Sub. A couple of times they were binges, some may even call relapses. This time had everything to do with my bipolar.

On Saturday I experienced a familiar feeling of emptiness in my gut, a feeling I've had over the years that's always a sign that I'm falling into a depressive episode. I start feeling really hopeless, don't want to get out of bed. I start to believe I'm a loser and trying to fix myself and my life is futile because I always end-up sick again. Since then I tried clawing at ways to stop falling further into depression - swimming heaps, buying shit, installing a new car stereo, booty call - any distractions but it fucking wasn't helping. Yesterday I started smoking cigs again hoping i'd get a break. It didn't help. I sped the empty streets lastnight like a suicidal maniac with my new stereo cranked to get a break. Spent as long as I could in bed this morning then realised I was starting to think about giving up on it all, whether I'd cause family more damage by sticking around or by going. I put that thought on hold, got up called one of the old dealers and used.

Even though I had 4mg Sub lastnight it still worked somewhat. It worked enough to make me feel even worse. Heroin hasn't made me feel better emotionally for years, but I still wanna reach for it. Same as alcohol. I smashed some of that too. Fuck knows why. Depressants live up to their name now. Just leave me wasted and depressed. I just grab at anything to change my feelings.

I don't really know what this all means but I'm seeing my psych tomorrow. All I know is that ... this fugue state I go into is such a dark place that I completely stop caring, I lose control. This is what I'm dealing with. Sub can't stop me from using when I can't stop myself. If there was something that stopped me using though what else would I do to destroy myself? ...

I'm never going to get off Sub short of a miracle. It hasn't stopped me using. I'm gunna talk to my doc about naltrexone implant. No point taking opiates every day if they don't stop me using anyway. Naltrexone does a better job of that.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:20 am 
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Although I'm not bipolar, I've struggled with major depressive episodes all of my adult life, so I hear you loud and clear. Please don't beat yourself up. Suboxone IS helping you. Think of what you'd be like without it! At least it's some form of harm reduction, right? And do check into that implant, it can't hurt. Whatever is right for you, you know we support you.

Do you think it's time for a med change, or do these episodes happen regardless of the stability of your meds?

Just know we're here for you.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:53 am 
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I don't even know you but your post stopped me dead in my tracks and i had to reply.. this is coming from my heart and wherever you are at mentally u may not give a damn but here it goes...I think the emptiness can be so dangerous it what lurs us into doing things we know are conterproductive, for me it wasnt always about getting high, it could be the need to just do something screwed up like cheat on a boyfriend, do something sneaking, go out to a bar and get wasted ect.. you get the point. when you say giving up on it all.. do you mean your recovery or your life.. this may be a stretch but 5 years ago my dad committed suicide all it did was leave a trail of pain and destruction for those who loved him. it sent my life spinning out of control and left a huge hole in my heart where i would reach for anything (usually something destructive, whether it was partying or bad company) to feel better. When I got pregnant i felt like a whole new life was beginning for me same when he was born, i felt healed... then with my back pain i started on percs last year and then finally for my baby son i sought help for sub. there are days where i still feel that sinking feeling the want to be up to know good.. but he is my little anchor and my angel because he keeps me grounded.. otherwise who would have known where my percocet abuse would have led... i guess what i'm trying to get at is please don't give up, i know right now you may not care what a stranger has to say but your actions are effecting others and as much as we sometimes hate it we have a responsibility to the people that love us to pick up the pieces and get back on the train. You seem pretty aware of your dark side and self destructive ways, this is what i hope you heal or at least win the battles against it. I wish i had an answer for you because my heart goes out to you, i have seen you give such great advice on other threads , i would hate for things to fall apart. Im sorry this is so long i just believe even with the bipolar you can beat this, you may not win every battle but if you keep trying something wonderful possibly may happen to make it better.. for me it was my son. good luck and please let us knwo how you are holding up


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Tear, I am so sorry you are feeling this way. I totally understand what you are going thru. I have done the same things you have, buying things to fill the void, booty cals (many many of those) using, drinking. They do the same thing to me.. Make me feel worse. I wish I had an answer for you. I know we all have unique circumstances but I feel you can beat this. You are such a smart guy. You give the best advise on this forum. I wonder if it were me in your shoes or another forum member what advise YOU would offer us? You know Tear, you are a human being, having a human experience. NOBODY is perfect and nobody is without pain. What helps me is thinking about others that suffer great pain thru no fault of their own. People that are born with so little they barely survive. What I want to do is volunteer in a 3rd world country (or something) and witness first hand the despair that others live on a day to day basis. I believe in my heart this will help me become a better person and stop creating problems for myself to overcome. Maybe you can find a way to help others in a despirate situation and it will help you to realise that you are blessed beyond words. We are so lucky to have healthcare, homes and cars and money, food water. Why not find a way to help someone who has far less than you do. i think it may just be MORE gratifying than fucking yourself up on drugs and booze. Honey you ARE worth it. YOU CAN be of service to others less fortunate. (and you are) Just look at all the wonderful ways you have helped so many on the forum right here. You have been an amazing encouragement to me. You have a wealth of information on this subject of addiction. Maybe you can do something with it. OI know if you could you would help another addict thru their dark time. You are a good person. You have so much to offer so many. I hope you can realise this. I know it can be tough sometimes, but YOU ARE TOUGH... and you are gonna be ok. Allow yourself to experience what you need, learn from it and then move forward. Everyday, every second it another chance to start over.......


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:47 pm 
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sweet16 wrote:
. Allow yourself to experience what you need, learn from it and then move forward. Everyday, every second it another chance to start over.......


sweet 16 well said..an awesome reminder to all of us :)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:25 pm 
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Tear, I wish I knew what to say to you right now. I don't have any good advice for you. Besides I think you have heard it all before. I just want to tell you that I kind of feel like I have gotten to know a little piece of you over the past few weeks. You and a few of the others here. I kinda have started thinking of ya'll as my mentors...like my big brother. Please keep trying...this world is a better place with you here to give us all your knowledge and compassion. I know you can't stay sober for someone else, but I just wanted you to know we care for you. Go to your counselor tomorrow and let them help you, let us know if we can help you. I am praying for you...I know not everyone here is a christian, I am not trying to push this on anyone I just wanted you to know I believe in the power of prayer and that is one thing I can do for those of you on here that are so far away that I want to help. I can pray for you.

Sending lots of love your way!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:08 pm 
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Tear, you mentioned that this time had everything to do with your bipolar. I know you've struggled with your bipolar meds in the past, if you're still struggling with those meds "balancing" you out, then you should certainly go see your psychiatrist and demand resolution. I remember you mentioning how he didn't listen to you and your ideas very well in the past, I'd stand on his throat until I got his attention.

The other posters have already said everything else I would have said to you, so I'm gonna leave it at that.

Oh Yeah, I can't remember if you're Christian or not, it doesn't really matter because like qhorsegal, I'm a Christian and I'll be praying for you too.

This just popped into my head as I was driving home and I felt it was worth asking. Do you exhibit certain behaviors before an "episode." I know your lapse was due to your bipolar.....what I'm trying to ask is this, do you put yourself in situations that lead to an episode, I only ask because I finally figured out, after my last lapse, that prior to my lapse beginning I was always putting myself into a situation where a lapse was all but inevitable.

I guess what I'm asking is even before one of your episodes begins, are you contributing to it? Does what I'm asking make sense?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Tear,

I'm so sorry you are going through this.

I am also bipolar so I know the hell of depression. I have been in the hospital twice for manic episodes as well. My doctor says that the manic state is far more dangerous than the depressive state but damn.....I would almost rather be manic.

Anyway, last month I found myself becoming more depressed. I started to crave drugs really bad. (I'm on 4 mg sub an 40 mg abilify) I mean it became a powerful physical need. My heart was racing, I couldn't stop moving. I hung on for two days and finally ended up at my sub docs office. I told him how I was feeling. Just saying it out loud to somone helped calm me. He made me an apointment to see my psych. She couldn't get me in until later this month. But the feeelings passed. The depression still sucks though.

I guess I am trying to say.....if this happens again, I urge you to get to the doc or talk to someone before you relapse. You know the drugs are not going to make you feel any better long term. I'm 40 now and I am just now figuring this out. Illegal drugs don't make me feel better. What a concept.

You are such a great guy Tear. You help so many on this site. I hope you start feeling beter soon. I will say a prayer for you too.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:18 pm 
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when i come to the forum i look for tears words because i really need to read them. i have depended on your posts and have gotten through a bad time or two with the logic of the posts. i struggle as many of us do its not going to b like one morning and it will go away. sorry . i really need you tear.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Thanks everyone for your kind words.

Saw the quack-a-dack today ... I dunno about you guys, but I still get this secret little feeling when I'm given a script for a new medication - a bit of excitement thinking "is this gunna be the one that'll make me normal?" Some people spend their lives looking for a soul-mate. Right now I'll settle for soul-medication. This time it's something called Valdoxan, a new antidepressant based on melotonin.

Romeo yeah I had a rant about my doc another time. Really I should give him a break. I can pick on his flaws as a doctor, but he's still miles ahead of anyone else I've been involved with. Do I do anything to bring about these episodes? Not for some time I don't think. Years ago when drug-use was ongoing and I was using regardless of how I was feeling, yeah I was battering my emotions hard, inducing manic and depressive episodes like it was my hobby. Nowadays I seem to only use when my head's in an extreme place. I don't use when there's a reason behind feeling bad - a breakup, boredom, death. Only when there's no reason. Weird I know.

The only thing I can think that coulda caused this bottoming out woulda been the fact it's April - and I have a history of getting sick in April. It's almost a seasonal thing. The winter weather kicks in, days start getting shorter. This has happened as long as I've known.

I can't expect too much of psychiatry at this point. Bipolar depression - the main thing I struggle with - doesn't as yet have any effective treatment. Lamictal only touches the sides I've found.

qhorsegal thanks for offering your prayers. It can only help. I had my Sub this morning - something I wouldn't have done if I wanted to keep using. So I'm moving in the right direction again.

thanks sweets16 ... Today is that day to start over :) You are right that I have much to be grateful for. And why carry on doing something that costs my life, and that I don't even enjoy anymore? Hmm.

Today I'll get back on my feet. Suboxone has been upped back to 10mg just until I get settled again and stabilised on this new medication.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:50 pm 
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your reply is good news. i can relate how frustrating it can be if you could only escape your own head sometimes and just be at peace with things.. i have my good days and bad days with that one.. but to know you are still on this forum still trying to work on things, props to you, very encouraging.. hope tomorrow is a better day and that april isn't to rough on ya


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:17 pm 
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Smiles!!! :P


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:23 pm 
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Hey Tear, I'm so glad you posted tonight. It's good to know that you upped your Suboxone dose and I really, really, really hope that the Valdoxan gives you what you need.

I hear ya about April (September here in the States) being a drag. I've never really enjoyed fall and the fact that my sister died in fall (years and years and years ago) doesn't help. Fall is just a crappy time for me, I also tend to get sick during fall. But, I'm also aware of these things now and I kinda know to put on my "thick skin" during that time of year.

Honeybee, as I was reading through these latest posts, my daughter came over to give me a kiss goodnight and she glanced at the computer screen and told me to tell you that she loves your avatar! I like your new avatar too, I couldn't figure out the original one you had, it looked like a flying moose to me? :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:10 am 
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Ahh yeah the avatar's cool the nickname is shocking ... But there's a story behind it and I only ever signed up to this place to post one reply ...

I had an interesting chat with my Sub doctor today. He said that his patients often struggle to stay clean when they're on less Suboxone than they need. Kinda like giving the addiction a taste of what it needs but not enough. It's even harder than being on no Suboxone at all. He said nearly all his patients (ex-heroin addicts) found cravings return once they get under around 8mg, and end up either using or pushing their dose back up. I wonder if that's true for me? If that's the case, it changes a lot.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:33 am 
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@ romeo that's awesome .. it's a little anime fairy flower girl thing.. thats too cute. my son turns 1 on sunday so we are all very excited, too young to like avatars ;) , but always tries to type on my laptop when im writing ...i like your avatar as well. back when mtv was cool hehe.
oh lmao off @ the flying moose.. the old avatar was a moon with a huge flower in the foreground.
@ tear i don't think you were talking to me about the nickname being shocking but just in case..my nickname is honeybee because my name is melissa which comes loosely from the greek meaning "honeybee" 415 being my son's b day april 15th.. if i am mistaken then oops but there's the reason lol


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:50 am 
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tear- i'm kinda in the same boat you are". i'm also trying to install a 500/W amp in my truck, for trucks don't come with very good systems anyway. Man'. don't feel so bad, were only human and we struggle to live with the understanding that are good
ways are all most as bad as are BAD. FUCK". you are a good person surviving addiction and that is it. you got all the things in life that a so what called normal person has. you just got to struggle a lot more because you allow your self too.
you no you don't have to, but those feelings can keep getting in the way. and i no how they feel" let me tell you.
i have to admit i smoked some and drank some a few day's ago, but i no i can't automatic cure my self and going to aa/na
is not going to cure me either. keep truck'en tear" you have what it takes :)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:10 am 
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It's been a couple of weeks now since I used, and things have come back together okay. The new anti-depressants, whilst not making me 'happy', have made me not depressed. Which is all I ever wanted from them anyway.

No desire to use. My dose is back up at 12mg. It's just a bit worrying that I did use. How much of it was related to being on 8mg I can't tell, but I really hope it wasn't much related to that. I know I was in such a destructive "fuck it all" mood that I probably would have done it anyway. I just felt it wise to increase the dose to prevent me from carrying on.

It's also made me question what I can do differently. Believe it or not I have actually been considering returning to NA. Partly because I bumped into a crew of NANA's at a rave (bush) party on the weekend, and they were having a lot of fun around people fucked up on drugs and weren't doing anything. I've also bumped into a few people from the rooms lately in some uncanny coincidences.

It's probably because I used that I decided to stop moderating here. Mainly because I started to think I needed to do something else for my recovery other than move threads and tell people off on a forum.


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