It is currently Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:24 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:49 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:18 am
Posts: 27
Location: Boston
Hello everybody - first post and I have a question that I was unable to find many if any previous posts on subject.

We have a significant amount of suboxone left over from my previous "quit".

The pills were kept in the bottle at my bank inside of my safety deposit box.

These have been there for five years.

Any opinions on whether these are still good?

They look just fine having been kept dry and air conditioned.

For reasons that may defy logic, I really need to detox from my 120 mg oxy habit using these.

Thanks in advance

Thoughts?

Any way to tell?

I'd hate to be in WD's only to find they are not working.

Help please and thank you everyone.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:24 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:18 am
Posts: 27
Location: Boston
I hate to reply to my own thread, but, just thought I would so I could bump this up a bit and hopefully find someone that knows.

Thanks......


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:31 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:48 pm
Posts: 1317
Hey Louggone, sorry nobody has answered you. So i will . First off Id have to guess that over a 5 years some of the effects of the med could be weakened. I have older films that ive taken after two years and they seem fine, although i am not useing them to detox, maintaince only. The fact that the pills were in a clean ,cool enviroment is a huge plus. The number of doses you have on hand is a plus too. Just a opinon, but i believe they can help you ..Welcome to the forum and good luck Loug. Razor


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject: Re: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:50 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2313
Location: Tennessee
I think, if it were me in ur same position, yes I'd take the medicine. I'm no Dr or pharmacist but I do think it's still going to help u. It could possibly be weakened because it has been so long, but still should have effects. It's a good thing that u held onto them this long and considering the alternative to using....take ur suboxone.

That's just my opinion and like I said I'm only telling u what I'd do in ur situation. Good luck!

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:04 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 879
Location: Wisconsin
They very likely will be as good as when they were new. It's not as if the medicine just some how evaporates out leaving behind a normal looking pill. The thing is, what the worst case? They don't work - right? They are very very unlikely to harm you. Medication by law has to have an expiration date. Actually so do medical devices. If unharmed, they are likely to work just fine.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:29 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 1002
I wouldn't take it. Naloxone can oxidize into a toxic compound in both tablet and film form once the product expires. I read up on this before suboxone films were approved in my country. It's the reason why the expiry date for the film was halved on that of the tablet, because the naloxone oxidizes in the film faster.

It's fair to say that this would have occurred in your tablets by now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:18 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 3:46 pm
Posts: 461
Location: South Florida
I tapered for so long and slow my films were 3 years expired by the end. They worked fine and I'm still alive...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:23 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2802
Location: Southwest
Glen,

Am I reading this right? You are now completely off Suboxone? Either I had a memory lapse or just plain never read your taper journey so this is some very good news to hear. Jog my memory and tell us how the jump went and how long the symptoms lasted. And you've been off since, when?

To the OP. Research what TJ posted just to make sure you don't poison yourself. Glen had films and you have the tabs so there is a small difference. My opinion is the same as most. Medications lose their efficacy once the exp date has passed. I recall taking some 3-4 year old Norco's back in the day that I found in a drawer. They helped a little with not going through the w/d's but I swear they had no mental effect whatsoever and I ended up throwing them out once a new script was in my hand. Later I came to regret that decision, a decision of a sick mind.

I wish you success with the taper ahead. IMO, it's a 50/50 they'll work. My money is on it still being good due to how you stored them. Smart thinking there and it will save you some serious money.

rule

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:26 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 1002
I'm not saying taking expired films will kill you. But apparently naloxone degrades into harmful chemicals. The info is in there somewhere. It's for this reason that I rotate my supply of films.

https://www.tga.gov.au/file/1593/download


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject: Re: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:47 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2313
Location: Tennessee
I don't really think anyone here can effectively answer that question anyway. My suggestion would be to just anonymously call ur pharmacist and ask, that's probably ur best bet. Everyone has different opinions so ur not going to get a solid answer. Good luck!!

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:54 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 879
Location: Wisconsin
While I don't disagree that you'll get a lot of different opinions here, calling a pharmacist will most certainly net a response of not taking an expired medication. What else would they say - not only about sub but about any expired med. there is a level of liability for advice provided by a pharmacist or other medical professional. They have to stick with the accepted medical response regarding medication expirations. I'll save you the call, the pharmacist will say don't take expired meds. So I'm still not sure you'll have a legit answer. In the end you can only do what you think is best.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:37 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 3:46 pm
Posts: 461
Location: South Florida
rule62 wrote:
Glen,

Am I reading this right? You are now completely off Suboxone? Either I had a memory lapse or just plain never read your taper journey so this is some very good news to hear. Jog my memory and tell us how the jump went and how long the symptoms lasted. And you've been off since, when?



rule


Hi Rule,

I have posted about it in a few threads to support others but have not made my own thread yet. I was going to make one in 'bupe in the rearview mirror' after a year off sub but I just passed 15 months. Long story short, I tapered very long slow and low for a very long time (2 years or more) until I felt I didn't need it anymore and tried stopping. No symptoms ever came. With the long taper, I never really felt anything bad; if I felt it coming I would just slow down my pace. My total time on sub including the taper was about 6 years. My normal dose was 8mg per day for about 4 years and then I used a razor blade and magnifying eyeglasses to cut 8mg films into smaller and smaller doses and eventually 2mg films into insanely low doses including as little as .007mg/ 7micrograms at the end.

I will try to type out a thread with more specifics later.

:) -Glen


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:14 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:18 am
Posts: 27
Location: Boston
Thanks to all for the responses.......is there any way to tell if the naloxone has "oxidized" or degraded by looking at the pill?

They look to be exactly the same as when I first used them.

Its not the money that keeps me from getting a new supply its all that I would have to go through.

See Doctor, listen to him tell me about something I know more then he does, receive dosage about 5 times what he should be giving me ( I know 2 mg works, yet, they will insist on 8 mg ). Submit to insurance, multiple visits etc etc etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject: Re: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:57 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 1002
No it's impossible to tell by looking.

Look at it this way though. I wouldn't stress too much about it being oxidised if you (a) aren't going to take the expired Sub every day and (b) don't care about other things that are bad for your health like smoking.

Put up against a cigarette, I don't think some oxidised naloxone is much of a worry. Also the concern about oxidised naloxone was about people taking it every day for a long time. I'm sure it'll be okay.

Personally I would rather not take expired Suboxone. But if I was in a position where it was all I had, I would still do it.

And considering the shit we've pumped into our bodies in the past, a bit of oxidised naloxone under the tongue isn't much in comparison.

I know it sounds like I've changed my tune. Guess I needed to think about it further.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:41 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:03 pm
Posts: 1544
Lots of interesting things in this thread, so I'll bounce it into the air one more time...

My opinion is based on a couple articles I've read about solid medications, that found that medications stay intact far beyond their expiration dates, along with my general bias that everything I read is bullshit, including expiration dates. Anything dissolved in a liquid will go bad-- e.g. insulin and other hormones, biological treatments like antibodies or microbial mixtures, or any other injectable medications. But solids, kept at room temperature, last almost forever. I will defer to Teejay on naloxone and oxidation, although the extent of oxidation would depend, I would think, on the packaging. It is interesting to see the article submitted to Australian regulators by Reckitt Benckiser; I assume the submission was coincident with the study submitted to the FDA, that resulted in accusations of market manipulation against RB in civil charges (I don't think they were ever charged criminally, but the FDA suggested that their actions would be submitted to US government agencies for consideration of charges for unfair business practices). I remember reading, back then, about the stability of buprenorphine even at very high temperatures. I would expect the buprenorphine molecule to be intact in a preparation that has been kept dry, at room temperature, even after a number of years. But again, I do not know about the naloxone. Of course naloxone adds no value to Suboxone.... but if it is truly converted to something harmful, nobody would want to take it.

I would expect there to be information out there about the stability of naloxone in injectable form, but there is always a huge difference between dry substances vs. the same substances dissolved in solution

Interesting comments about tapering to zero... one of the most common questions by my patients is whether withdrawal can be avoided, if a person tapers slowly enough. I usually tell them 'I don't know-- check my forum!!'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:57 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2802
Location: Southwest
Sorry to side track this thread but Glen, what a surprise to read how you tapered and stopped w/o negative results. If I were you I would have shouted that from the highest building! Never would have believed it if it wasn't you saying so. Congratulations my man!

Yes, get around to posting your experience in whatever section you see fit. The knowledge is priceless.

rule

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Is my sub too old?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:52 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:02 pm
Posts: 6
I HAVE A FOLLOWUP QUESTION.

my strips expired 1 year ago. Thoughts on their possible effectiveness? thanks!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
cron
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group