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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:32 pm 
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My name is Chris, I am in my early forties and I have abused pain pills, snorted, for the past 5 years. It cost me my career, dignity,pride.......everything.

I never had a prescription I bought off the street. Anything I could get my hands on, shoot I had 10 or so connections who called me daily. The past year and a half I've been using an average of 50mg daily. There were times I would snort more, but not many. The thing is I used everyday since Oct. of 2008. EVERYDAY. I could not think of anything else till I had my pills secured. I mean it had taken over everything, pills were all I cared about all I wanted.

So, 6 days ago I started suboxone, again buying off the street. I avidly researched suboxone here and other internet boards for about 6 weeks prior. (I read about every post Robert 325 has written,lol) I man, I REALLY researched Suboxone.

I inducted my self Wed, after 24 hours of having nothing, by taking a 2mg piece. Thursday I again took a 2mg piece, Friday I took a 1.3mg piece, Saturday a 1.3 mg piece. I decided to halve that dose and see how I felt, so this morning I took .65mg piece. I plan to stay here at .65mg for 5 days, then cut down 25%, say to .40mg for 5 days, then to .20mg for 5 days, then to either .125mg a day or start skipping days.

I decided on a fast taper purposely. The big step was today when I cut my 1.3mg dose in half. I have only taken my doses once daily. I expect to feel a bit sketchy the next few days, but think I can handle.

I'm 6 days of pain pills and am thinking clearly, rationalizing, and making clear-headed good decisions, for the first time in 18 months.

So far I have ZERO WD symptoms. None.Nada.Zip.

I think everyone should try an induction of 2mg. I mean I REALLY think 2mg will cut it for more than half the folks who start taking Suboxone. I can't stress this enough!!!!!!!

I understand that getting clean is the easy part,and that staying clean is the hard part. Soooooooooo... I changed my phone number and told all my contacts not to ever call me again. And moved in with my folks as a 40 odd year bachelor. Tis okay, I am doing what it takes to get and stay clean. And I mean clean. No drugs of any kind, no alcohol, no cigs. (I've never been a smoker)

I can't tell you how much I enjoy my Sobriety. My life had fallen apart. I understand what Opiates will do to me. I actually have 9 months clean, but Relapsed 18 months ago.

Wish me, criticize my taper plan, tell me I need AA meetings, tellme the hard part is staying clean. JUST TELL ME SOMETHING.

(I think it helps to have you guys in on what I am doing, and plan to keep this thread alive for awhile.)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:37 am 
Hey Chris, welcome. I'm glad you're off the pills and feeling better.
From reading your post my concern is where are you getting your Sub? You said you inducted yourself so I'm thinking it's not from a doctor. In my experience, the people who sell Sub illegally are the same people who sell painkillers. Not people you want to associate with if you are clean.
If you get in with a Sub doctor and tell him/her your story I think you could get into a program and have the necessary support/ accountability to help you stay clean and at the same time cut ties with the illegal element.
Also, in re: your comment about everyone dosing at 2mg. A lot of people start Sub after being at MUCH higher doses of opiates than you were on. So their tolerance is higher and they need a higher dose to stay out of withdrawals.
Anyway, I wish you the best. Recovery is best done with the support of others so I hope you will continue to reach out.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:00 am 
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Hi Chris,
I'd like to give you a warm welcome - We're very glad to have you. Congratulations on your new-found recovery. Of course I'd rather see you under the care of a doctor, but I recognize that doesn't negate your sincere desire to be in recovery. I just think it's healthier and safer under the care of a doctor (not to mention legal).

You said you got rid of all of your previous drug connections - but I'm curious, from whom did you get the suboxone? As Lilly pointed out, that is still a drug connection. Did you buy only once and plan on using all of it or do you plan on returning for more?

Moving in with your parents will likely help you stay in recovery, but what other changes do you plan on making? Do you go to therapy or any support groups? I am curious as to why you don't want to go legit and let a doctor help you out. Suboxone is a great tool that allows us the time to address the real issues surrounding our addiction. That can't happen in a matter of days or even a few weeks. Although some doctors use suboxone very short term, many people believe that staying on suboxone until the person is truly stable in their recovery is a better course of action.

Oh, and I agree with Lilly again - people are way too individualized to say that a 2 mg induction is right for everyone. One size fits all rarely works.

I truly wish you success in your efforts, but I would like to see you armed the best way possible to be able to STAY in recovery (or addiction remission as we like to say) for the long haul.

Keep us posted and again "WELCOME" to a great community.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:36 am 
Welcome to the forum Chris. I hope you'll find it as helpful as I have. I have a couple of questions for you. You mentioned that you had lost your career. I'm curious as to what type of career you had and whether it's something you can go back to once you've gotten your addiction into remission. You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but I'm always curious as my addiction cost me my career as a nurse.
The other question I have is about your Suboxone dose. You mention very specific doses which are quite low. How are you measuring these doses and is there a rationale behind your dosing schedule, other than the obvious (tapering lower and lower till you're off)?
You stated that you feel that 2mg of buprenorphine should be sufficient for anyone and everyone. While you're entitled to your opinion, I would encourage you not to make emphatic statements like that unless you've got an "MD" or a "DO" behind your name and you've taken the course of study required to prescribe buprenorphine. There are just too many variables involved in arriving at the appropiate dose for any given individual. The last thing we want to do around here is lay a little more guilt, shame, or uneasiness to an opiate addict who is in treatment with bupe by making them feel somehow weak or foolish for taking more than 2mg/day. Don't get me wrong.....I believe that there probably are a lot of people who are taking more bupe than they might 'need' but that is one of the beautiful things about the drug - there is a ceiling effect which prevents higher doses from doing any real harm to an opiate-tolerant person. The thing is, too, that if you were only taking 50mg/day of hydro or oxycodone....you probably did have good results with 2mg of bupe. Whatever......the dose is just a number. There are too many variables involved for you to assume that just because a dose was plenty for you, that it's plenty for everyone else.
I'm glad that you realize that getting 'clean' is the easy part and staying that way is where it gets tough. You obviously have first hand experience because of your relapse. So I have to ask, "Why even bother with Suboxone?" You're buying it illegally and taking it unsupervised according to your own plan. That's addiction in action, right? If you really want to get better for the long term, why not try something different this time? See a doctor and immerse yourself into your recovery. I'm impressed that you've moved and told your contacts you're done, but I'm not super confident that that will be enough. What's going to happen when you're out of Suboxone? You may have staved off the worst of the acute w/d symptoms, but there's still going to be something. You're not going to feel good for a long time. You'll struggle with PAWS and cravings for months to come. What then? We all want to think that we're 'different', that we'll never do this again.....but that is not how addiction and recovery works. It takes a long time to get our lives back in order.....to get used to not using opiates to get through the days, good or bad days. Sure, Suboxone is wonderful to prevent w/d. It's great not to have to go through that! But beyond that, Suboxone is great in that it allows us to feel normal long enough to work on things. To figure out what went wrong, why and how we got addicted in the first place. We can get into therapy, salvage our relationships, go to meetings or groups, participate here, go to work, function in our families, etc and slowly, righteously, build our lives again without drugs. When enough work has been done, enough healing has taken place, enough old habits are broken, we might be able to taper off the bupe and try life without it...and have a chance at staying 'clean' for the rest of lives. Or over that period of time, many people come to the conclusion that they're much better off and have a much better chance at keeping their addiction in remission if they just stay on a small dose of bupe for life. I'd rather do that than live my life in a vicious cycle of misery of using for a while, getting clean only to relapse again and again, or worse yet.....die in the process.
I'm sure I sound highly negative. I didn't start this post intending to do that. I just can't tell you how many times we hear from folks with almost your exact scenario and plan. They never come back. I've got to assume that they finish the Sub they bought illegally, stay off drugs for a few minutes, then go right back. It's a damn shame. Especially when there are better ways to do this. Whether it's with meds like buprenorphine or Methadone, or whether it's in-patient rehab and/or 12-step programs.....there are people who know what works better than you (or I) do. Until we quit trying to figure it out and treat ourselves, and quit looking for fast and easy solutions.....we are pretty much doomed!
Sorry for sounding negative. It's not that I don't 100% hope that you'll be the rare individual who is able to do this on your own, because I really do. I hate addiction so much. I wish it were as easy to get better as following your simple plan. I just don't believe it is. But good luck with it and I hope you'll be back to let us know how you're doing. While you're working on this plan, I would encourage you to search for Sub doctors in your area and have a back-up plan in place in case things don't work out.


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 Post subject: Welcome to the Site....
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:53 pm 
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Hi Chris,
Hello & Welcome to the Forum. I think you will find as I and many others have that this site has MANY caring and thoughtful people. As others have said you don't have to answer any questions you are not comfortable with (obviously) But, I was wondering.... You mentioned that you are going to stay away from "everything" including Alcohol. My question is do you think you have a problem with Alcohol? The reason I ask is selfish... I am an Alcoholic and an Addict and was wondering what treatment you might be in if any??? I can only speak for myself But I would be in big trouble if I tried to do this (Recovery) by myself.... I have to go to an AA meeting daily and therapy weekly along with my Suboxone just to have a chance at getting Healthy again..... I applaud your decision to get "CLEAN" But think you would give yourself a much better shot if you did it under the care of a Professional.( IMHO)!! Whatever you decide is best for YOU I hope you keep us posted along the way.. I wish you the best in your search for Recovery and I hope you find it!!!! Take Care..

God Bless
TW

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:36 pm 
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I thank you all for your replies. I read and re read them all. Great stuff.

But know this, I'll do Suboxone, BUT IT WILL BE ON MY TERMS. MY terms. And it will be at .50mg or below in 5-7 days.

Nothin personal, thats just how I am.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:16 am 
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(I think it helps to have you guys in on what I am doing, and plan to keep this thread alive for awhile.)

The only thing you forgot to add was I also don't plan to listen to anything you say. Although it's great you want to get clean and continue your addictive behavior by buying sub illegally.......I am concerned you are setting yourself up for failure. Some people who have walked long before you on suboxone have given you some great advice and suggestions...

Your response "But on my terms" So your the one ........the special one. Hopefully you will be able to educate us and tell us that we have been doing it all wrong. Our doctors have all been wrong. The people who have not relapsed are living their lives getting better by being on suboxone legally, going to 12 step meetings, therapy and getting better are all wrong and your way is best.

I hope you take the time to tell us how this works out for you. Most do their "My Term" way for 5 to 7 days and we never hear from them again because they are either sober, have relapsed or died (some go to jail). 12 step programs teach us to take suggestions from others who have walked before us to maintaine sobriety. If we don't listen to those suggestions there is a good chance we are not ready to be sober or we know it all and soon relapse happens.

I wish you the best however I am skeptical this will work for you. This is only my opinion and I really wish you would seek out a doctor and do this the way it is meant to be done. But then again all of your decisions to this point have led you to move back in with your parents becuase your not capable of being on your own and around people who sell drugs even though you buy illegal suboxone. Sometimes we have to stop thinking and start listening.........take suggestions and work on getting better.......you have decided your way is better. Please let us know how that works for you.


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 Post subject: Why the Anger??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:12 am 
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Chris,
Know this.... I never told you or suggested to you how much or how long to take your Suboxone!!! I only gave My (only Mine) opinion on your method of Recovery.
The whole purpose of this forum is for addicts (that's us.. ME anyways) to share information back and forth in hopes we may help each other in Recovery.... You have been asked a couple of questions on the thread that you did not address... That's your choice No problem But, If you want to come out here and give one line Directives you are really missing a great tool that could help your sobriety.... Like I said before whatever you choose for your Recovery I wish you the best. If you would like to keep us posted on your progress that would be great!! Take Care.

God Bless
TW

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"I may not have ALL I want but thank's to God I now know that I have ALL I need !!!!!!
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:43 am 
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er, um I am keeping you posted on my Recovery.

Day 8 and I feel great this morning, I've been taking my .65mg dose at around 7:30 am but think I will delay that by a couple of hours.

I worked out last night, walked 3 miles.

18 months ago I was an active bodybuilder (since 2001). Today was my first workout in 8 months. I choose life.

I went through a miserable period starting 18 months ago. I choose NOT to share it here, just know that I went 12 months not caring whether I lived, died, or went to prison. I didn't care.

I choose life now.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:01 pm 
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Good Luck Chris -

I hope you are the exception to the rule. Please know, that if things don't work out as your plan, we are still here. If, in the rare chance, that your taper plan fails - we are still here with non-judgmental arms.

I think that most of us want things our own way. Everyone in the USA is free to choose their way as long as it doesn't hurt themselves or others (or break the law I suppose).

Have you ever wondered, like I have and did, what I would look like to someone who was totally naive to drugs? In your case, rolling up a bill, or grabbing a straw to snort drugs into your head? Or me, sneaking out pills and taking them in every possible situation - knowing I was living a lie?

Most people, as part of their recovery, need to come to a place where they know in their heart of hearts that their behavior is NOT normal. That someone sober - would look at us with 'oh my gosh' what the hell? I mean, shooting up? Snorting, doctor shopping, buying drugs from people off the street? What is wrong with that person?

Until someone is to that point, where they own their own deeds, the odds are horrid they will be in recovery long term. Maybe you will be in the minority - there rare individuals that make it - but remember - if you are not - we are here with understanding.

Recovery is complex. That's why most of us need help. I researched suboxone for 18 months while actively taking drugs. Why? Because I knew it took me years to get screwed up - and the reality was it was going to take me years to un-learn my bad behavior. Any bull-headed answers on my part would be just bravado. Something to make me sound tough - set me down something to try and live up to. I mean in my own twisted world - I was a man of my word (all the while doing illegal activity and living a lie).

Good Luck with your plan. If I had your current plan - I would fail. Simplicity sounds good, but it's doesn't work well. What will happen to you without support, without a long term plan, when another life changing event happens to you? Things happen, shit happens, and in my case - shit always happen when I am the most vulnerable. Again, maybe you are different - so all the best.

--LD


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:38 pm 
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I slept 6.5 hours last night.

Yes!!!!!!!

I waited and waited until neary noon to take my .65mg dose. I thought about skipping, but things are going too good right now. I plan to stabalize right here for a while, and get under .5 mg this weekend sometime.

No biggie.

Day 8 and life is good, well at least sober.

And thats Good


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:24 pm 
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I wouldn't be 9 days clean without Suboxone. But, for me, Suboxone is something I can control, while the opiates i was abusing were controlling me.

It was VERY important for me to get as low as possible as fast as possible. I'm on day 4 of .65mg. I haven't felt any major withdrawals nor craving. There are some tingly moments in belly and mind but nothing at all like withdrawals from opiates.

I'm going to slow my taper a bit starting Saturday (by 25%) down to .40mg daily. stay there for a week and go on down some more.

Day 9 and things are going great.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:28 pm 
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Glad to hear you're doing well, Chris. I know you didn't want to get into any details, but if you don't mind sharing about this one thing, I'm very curious about how you're measuring your suboxone. Are you doing the liquid taper?

If you don't want to talk about that, it's fine, too. Again, I'm glad to hear you're doing well. Keep on keeping us posted.

Hat.

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:10 pm 
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Day 10, Double digits. Cool.

Took my 5th .65mg dose this morning and things are good to great.

I feel normal, I feel good, I feel Sober.

No problems of any kind, physical nor mental. No withdrawal/no craving.

Gonna taper in 2 days by 25%, down to .40mg.

All the Best


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:34 am 
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Took my .65mg dose this morning, again, all is well.

Today is day 11, I am going to taper to .40mg tomorrow and stay there for about 5-7 days.

I couldn't be happier with how things are going.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:37 pm 
I'm glad things are going well for you so far Chris. I'm glad it's helping you in some way to post about your experiences here. That's what we're all about! This forum is great for support and information and it is here for the taking.....for free even! Most of us as we go along in recovery become interested also in giving back. And you are giving by sharing. In order to make your "gift" all the more valuable, could you please just answer the question that several of us have asked - How are you coming up with your low and precise doses? This is a catching point for so many of us as we taper, especially under 1mg. Seriously, we just want to know how you're doing it. Are you using the liquid method that others have shared with us or something different? You mentioned having initially taken a "2mg piece" so I'm assuming you've got 8mg tabs which are really hard to break up to under 1 mg. So how in the heck are you getting doses of 0.65mg?!
Again, glad all is well.....it's a great feeling!! Don't keep us guessing....answer the question already!!


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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 4:35 pm 
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Well, I actually haven't taken anything, even subs, since Thursday Morning. It's Sunday evening and things are going very well.

I decided to see what would happen if I skipped a day, which was Friday, and today is Sunday and I haven't had any major problems to speak of.

So I Stepped off at .65mg and today is day three off subs, day 13 off other opiates, and I couldn't be happier.

I've felt a slight tingle in the legs, and seem to be easier chill bumped than usual, but nothing at all I can't handle. The most surprising thing is my lack of craving. I haven't had the first thought of using opiates in nearly two weeks. I know that it will happen soon, but I feel very good about where I am right now. I'm mentally, physically, emotionally, financially and I don't sweat having the cops follow me around anymore.

I choose life. I hate the addict life.

I feel like me again.

I'm so very happy right now.

I wish all of you fine folks the best!!


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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 1:26 pm 
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Day 15, Day 5 off Suboxone. And All is Good!! I had zero physical withrawals, no cravings, and the future looks bright.

I could not be happier. Everyday is a step away from the bad and towards the good.

I did a super quick, 10 day. taper of opiates and had no physical nor mental WD's.

I know the mental cravings will hit someday but i am so happy with where I am, I Nver. I mean I NEVER want to go back to that dead end rat race that is finding/buying pills off the street UGH.

Anyway, All the Best friends.


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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 4:04 pm 
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I don't mean any offense of any kind with this, but I find it just a tiny bit off-putting that several have now asked you questions which you have summarily ignored. Why is that? It's not a personal question, and your anonymity would not be jeopardized at all by answering it.

There are many people here who would benefit greatly from you sharing your knowledge and technique of how you managed to measure out your suboxone doses so evenly and precisely at such a small amount.

So, at the risk of yelling: WOULD YOU PLEASE TELL US HOW YOU MEASURED YOUR DOSES?

I know I would appreciate it and I'm sure others would too, even if you are using a method we are all familiar with already.


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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 4:56 pm 
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I am actually really surprised you haven't had any w/d from any of this????? I only abused for 10weeks and got anxiety as a w/d and that is what I get when I stop sub, I made it to day seven without subutex, but at day seven I caved and went back on, i can make it also five days without. I find it really very amazing that you abused for five years and only took sub for a while and had such great success, congrats!!!!!!! How did you measure you sub, I got 8mg pills and I can only cut them into fours and those pieces are hard to cut i just do it by hand and who knows really how much i really get


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