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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:49 pm 
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I'm new here. I'm pretty new to sub. My 1st try on Sub I had been taking 20/30 Norco aday, about 300 mgs. My Dr started me on 1- 8-2 mg a day. It seemed to work great most of the day . Around 4 I'd get uncomfortable & take another. I called him & went in early, he put me on 2- 8 mg a day for a month. I was doing fine & then I got some bad news about my health ,plus, I'm also in pain alot of the time. So needless to say I got the F--K -its and started taking the Sub, just because. I never took more than 4 a day.
Ofcourse I'd run out & seek out opiates. So I could make it til my next visit. I'm not condoning any of this but for me I would take a 8 mg sub 6-7 hours after the opiates & not go into w/d's. I'd also take a handful, literally, of vicoden 7-8 hours after the sub & not get high but not feel pain.
I told my Dr that I had a set-back & he put me on 1- 8mg sub again and I'm doing the same thing again. I'm not even craving opiates! I know it's this disease & I know I need meetings. Plus I have sooo many issues w/ my health & life. I just feel like whats the point, deep down I know there's a point. I want to do this one thing right but it's so hard for me, because just for awhile I can be numb.
I am tired of the visciuos cycle & the expense, not to mention the fear of w/ds. But there seems to be w/ds any route taken.

Thanks for letting me go off. Any suggestions anyone.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:20 am 
Addiction is pure hell. It is an absolute nightmare. The manipulating, the scheming, the lying, the cheating, the yada yada yada. CONSTANTLY counting your pills and doing the math on how many days you have left. How will I get more? How much w/d will I be in if I don't get more? What should I say to my doctor(s) to get more pills? Does he/she know I'm a junkie? It's just a big friggin' mess.

You are right. You will have to go through w/d at some point. I guess all I can really suggest is to just be HONEST with yourself. Do you REALLY want to be clean? Are you REALLY ready to be clean? Just ask yourself those types of questions, and be honest with yourself.

Thats about all I have, and I am not a doctor.

Take care of yourself, and keep checkin' in.

patrick


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:38 am 
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Rest assured you are not alone in this struggle. You really have to be committed to quitting and thats easier said than done. Suboxone is not a miracle drug it is a tool and a very powerful tool if used correctly. You need to figure out what it is that makes you want to get high. This part IMHO is the most difficult. You have to be truly and completely honest with your life and relationships etc If you can try to fix the real reason you want to use or feel you have to then suboxone just helps with the physical aspect of it. I have found that the longer you are on the sub with out any slip ups then the better off you will be craving wise. If you slip up it can be difficult to get to where you were mentally when you were "drug" free. If you dont already get yourself a good drug councellor he/she can really help you find what it is thats triggering this behavior. Ask the councellor what makes him worthy of treating/councelling you. If you find one thats been through it then even better.
Recovery and sobriety is a healing process and doesnt happen overnight. I am speaking from experience and have had a bit of a rocky road,
Best of luck and dont get down on yourself too much.

Best of luck :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:51 am 
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Thanks so much. Ya'll are so right . I know it, but I need to hear it over & over again. I've been addicted to something for 30 + years, but these opiates are the hardest to kick yet. Over my life span I stayed sober for 2 yrs with the help of meetings,support groups, therapists etc. It was the best I've ever felt. But now I'm older with alot of issues to say the least. Which are my triggers ? My bad marraige I can't get out of, due to my really bad health & no income. Anyway, no excuses but those are the triggers. I do have a 9 yr old & she is my only saving grace.

I know I can't do this alone, and thats my problem. I'm a recluse, due to one of my illnesses. But I know I have go to meetings. Until then I'm going to keep coming back here, K ? ( and afterward) My problem is I hate meetings . I've tried on several different occasions. Any suggestions? I'm also broke which makes it tough.

Have A Great Day,
Elyse :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:07 pm 
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Hi Elyse, I understand the feelings of "What's the point?", but as long as you have a pulse you have a purpose, so please get your opiate habit under control because that will just make things worse. If you dislike face-to-face meetings, you can try online meetings. They have them for AA/NA as well as SMART and other recovery programs. Otherwise maybe some private therapy with a drug counsellor. Hope all works out well for you.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:51 pm 
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If it were me I'd make sure I was taking my Suboxone in a way that maximized absorbtion like Dr. Junig has suggested many times before. The fact that taking more Suboxone does something reinforcing for you would suggest that your either not getting very good absorbtion (thereby not getting over the 4mg ceiling) or it's purely psychological. Also if it were me I'd give my prescription to someone who I trusted and who cared about me enough to only give me the prescribed amount of Suboxone each day and make sure I was taking it. Until I started to see opiate addiction as life and death I didn't get serious about it. The odds are really stacked against people who continue to not get serious about making some changes. I really hope things work out for you but again for me it took being willing to at least follow some direction and asking others for help before things get wildly out of control.
Matt

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 Post subject: ...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:29 pm 
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Personally, I would tell you to take as much Sub per day as allowed by your MD. Ask him/her what your maximum dose should be and take that amount every day for a week. If at that point you still crave the opiates, go ahead and try it. It will only take one time of wasting your Norcos and not feeling anything for you to really believe and see that you just can't get high while on Sub. I know I'll get panned for this comment, but some people just need to learn for themselves. You can't trick your brain chemistry and you can't get around Sub when it's firmly in place on your receptors (at least not with your Norcos). You can play the dangerous game of on-Sub, off-Sub, but you won't last long.

Seriously, just stick to Subxone and motrin or tylenol for pain. Your opiates are no longer of use when you're on Suboxone, so stop wasting that money and go get yourself a pedicure or whatever women do in spas.

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:03 pm 
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scape wrote:
Personally, I would tell you to take as much Sub per day as allowed by your MD. Ask him/her what your maximum dose should be and take that amount every day for a week. If at that point you still crave the opiates, go ahead and try it. It will only take one time of wasting your Norcos and not feeling anything for you to really believe and see that you just can't get high while on Sub. I know I'll get panned for this comment, but some people just need to learn for themselves. You can't trick your brain chemistry and you can't get around Sub when it's firmly in place on your receptors (at least not with your Norcos). You can play the dangerous game of on-Sub, off-Sub, but you won't last long.

Seriously, just stick to Subxone and motrin or tylenol for pain. Your opiates are no longer of use when you're on Suboxone, so stop wasting that money and go get yourself a pedicure or whatever women do in spas.



Iknow it's an old post and am going throufgh what this guy is going through now. I disagree with the above post. I'm on 8mg a day of suboxone and if I run 2 or 3 bags of good dope I feel it. I nod out and everything. Hospitals know that to. They don't sweat anyone on 8mg or below. At 12 or really 16mg then they really have to up the dose of pain meds if a patient needs it.


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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:47 pm 
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Iknow it's an old post and am going throufgh what this guy is going through now. I disagree with the above post. I'm on 8mg a day of suboxone and if I run 2 or 3 bags of good dope I feel it. I nod out and everything. Hospitals know that to. They don't sweat anyone on 8mg or below. At 12 or really 16mg then they really have to up the dose of pain meds if a patient needs it.[/quote]


I seriously doubt hospitals will "shoot through" suboxone for pain relief. Most likely, they will put you under with benzodiazepines or conscious sedation if you are seriously injured and in need of pain relief. Unfortunately, it's just too dangerous and may overdose the patient if they shot through. I had surgery once while on sub and for post op emergency pain, the ER gave me two shots of 2mg Dilaudid and refused to give me any more. I was on 16mg daily. They called in a specialist who wanted me to get off sub and go onto methadone to control the pain. Luckily, that was not needed. Another choice is to use Ultram (tramadol), which is a mu agonist and a Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor, which works when used with suboxone.


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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:46 pm 
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StaffWriter wrote:
Iknow it's an old post and am going throufgh what this guy is going through now. I disagree with the above post. I'm on 8mg a day of suboxone and if I run 2 or 3 bags of good dope I feel it. I nod out and everything. Hospitals know that to. They don't sweat anyone on 8mg or below. At 12 or really 16mg then they really have to up the dose of pain meds if a patient needs it.



I seriously doubt hospitals will "shoot through" suboxone for pain relief. Most likely, they will put you under with benzodiazepines or conscious sedation if you are seriously injured and in need of pain relief. Unfortunately, it's just too dangerous and may overdose the patient if they shot through. I had surgery once while on sub and for post op emergency pain, the ER gave me two shots of 2mg Dilaudid and refused to give me any more. I was on 16mg daily. They called in a specialist who wanted me to get off sub and go onto methadone to control the pain. Luckily, that was not needed. Another choice is to use Ultram (tramadol), which is a mu agonist and a Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor, which works when used with suboxone.[/quote]


I can't believe they let you have surgery while on suboxone. Usually they tell you to stop useing it a week before surgery and take methadone. You may be right about them not "shooting through" suboxone for pain relief. Just my experience. They kept a watch on me for any breathing problems.


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 Post subject: TAKE CARE OF YER LIVER..
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:34 am 
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STOP THE APAP!!!!!! :!:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:54 pm 
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I'm only on 12mg suboxone daily, and I'm sucking on my 1st 8mg at 10 in the morning, but have to save the cut in half 4mg for 4 or 5 in the afternoon or I'll not sleep good and go into wd's. I dont sleep good at night as it is. But a guy I met in detox was telling a guy next to me, "I can get you anything you want" I said to my room mate who said this"what about me?" hey I'm your roomie and have poor social skills due to slight autisim and all, I'm not gonna risk going in the hood and get shot or worse yet get arrested by the city's worst.

He said "dont get any ideas, I aint getting you nothing except weed" I'm thinking to myself kettle calling kettle black? I dont know why but I notice very well that opiate addicts DO NOT get along good with "tea heads" or people who love pot mostly as well as the reverse too. Damn I thought, here I'm in detox just out of the woods from major wd's from jumping off 150mg methadone and my room mate thinks I'm crazy for wanting to get high with my monster tolerance. Well he's right to an extent but I know what will get me off good and its definately not norco's anymore, unless someone "lucky I live close to a mom and pop compounding pharmacy and boy would I love to be prescribed 1,000mg of pure hydrocodone or oxycodone, I can't take Oxycontin sadly, because it would not get absorbed because I have no colon and just the j pouch, so I probably would not get much if any high.

So what happens? my suboxone doc said upping suboxone will not make me feel any better moodwise, which I know is untrue, I'm sure most of you read my long post which basically tells all about that visit, me now being on this lousy tegretol.Everything in my life seems backasswards now, I feel screwed since I opened my dumb mouth and told the methadone clinic how nice I felt on 240mg, when I was on it, then when I was on suboxone and just got on it the second time, I tell my sub doctor how buzzed I got back in 06 off 5 subs at once and all. Now I'm really considered a junkie, I might as well move to Europe and get outta this lousy country, which treats addicts, people with mental disabilities who are also gay OMG!!. Nobody wants anything to do with me and even people who are gay never hit me up on fb. Maybe I should shut myself back in the closet more and update my fb profile but its probably too late, millions could have seen me by now.

I found my hated neighbor next door on fb and I'm about to try to resolve some issues "peacefully" in the "cold war" they started with me(us), but I'm afraid they saw me too, meetings dont work for me, here in Chicago burbs everyone at meetings seems to stay in a little circle of their own buddies and those like me who stagger in once in a while are looked at like "oh here comes a junkie who probably is here just to get signatures etc because he's on probation etc" stay away from him.

Here I go rambling again, but if I had a handfull of good dope in hand right now, I would not have just finished my 8mg sub, I know I can still break through only 12mg of sub REAL easy right now, the right connect and enough money to tide me over so I can get high enough to enjoy selling stuff again to make money for more dope. This is legit because I basically buy old electronics and fix and sell them on auction and make money. It sucks bad sometimes though, so then its time to start flipping cars again, sadly I can never save up enough money to deal in the GOOD cars like 3 to 4 grand or more. I'm stuck with learned how to buy $100 or $400 beaters and fix em up for cheap and make $300 to $500 measly profit on em. May not seem like much to anyone here who buys and sells cars, but for a junkie like me it is per car.

Worse yet I dont know anyone who will sell me crap, I'm gonna delete my room mate off fb and then if he even asks why I deleted him as well as the other few people I met in detox, I'm gonna say. Just get me what I need and I'll re ad you to my list, otherwise we wont get along in real world, we did as room mates in a dorm basically for addicts lol. But its different when we get out of that place. I'll see and be curious as to what will happen then.

But since I opened my dumb mouth to my suboxone doc this time around about getting buzzzed off 5 subs at once in 06 and reason one that I switched to methadone was because I was afraid I'd get kicked off anyway because I didn't have enough pills left to see him and my Mom would probably make me let her in the room etc as I tell him what I did. He was talking about getting me on 24mg daily of suboxone, but I dont know now. He gave me a strict ultimatum that if I didn't do this boring aftercare program 23 miles one way everyday m-f 9-3pm that "I could go back to my clinic" I assumed right that night he said that before discharging me that he was ticked at my "getting high off maint meds etc".

Strange thing is, I went to the asessment just to say I went, then gave the papers to his nurse to prove I went for the asessment, yet strange thing is he hasn't asked about the program, he just said this week he wants me to go to at least 2 NA meetings before i see him this coming week. I dont know whats going to happen, its sad because I was feeling great in detox after the 3rd or 4th day back on subs 4mg 2x daily and now I just want to get high as a kite, because as usual,one little thing goes good in my life for a bit and then life sucks most of the time. I feel I wish I had taken all my methadone take homes I had this thanksgiving and od'ed. It would have amounted to 1,050mg which I'm sure would kill anyone. I was afraid that I would puke though and something worse would happen. I've attempted suicide twice in the past now and failed so I wasn't about to chance something unless I knew it would work.

I feel like I'm at the end of my life and nothing is ever going to be as great as it was in the 80's as I was growing up. That's why I live in the 80's and only listen to that music that defined the best of my life which is sadly gone forever in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:06 pm 
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StaffWriter wrote:
Another choice is to use Ultram (tramadol), which is a mu agonist and a Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor, which works when used with suboxone.

Sorry to bump this for myself but seriously? Do you have any references to back that up? (I searched but most returns for "suboxone+tramadol" are about people trying to get off the latter). And what might my doctor think of me asking for it, i mean would he assume "druggie asking for drugs" or do they regard the stuff as relatively benign?

I'm three weeks out of knee surgery and had to stop taking the narcotic pain pills because they didn't work with my tolerance. But the pain does suck, worse than i thought it would, and i'm not allowed any anti-inflammatory meds. (Gawd i miss my ibuprofen).

I'll continue just dealing with the pain if i have to but it would be really nice if i didn't have to.

Thanks,
- joe


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:34 pm 
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I had a similar habit to you, I would take 20+ Hydrocodone 10/325 or the Lortiab 10/500...Or basically whatever I can get my hands on.

What you need to do is just get the hell out of there. Go vacation somewhere for a month or so and take some suboxone with you. You wont have the temptation of taking pills so you wont be able to get any. I was shooting dope and I left Texas to go to Arizona and stayed with my mom for about two months....I went out there with about 60 Suboxone which lasted me about a month then got one more refill of 30, the another refill of 15....I was gone for about 2 months and it did wonders for me. I haven't taken any opiates since May !After a few days you will go back to feeling "normal"....whatever normal is for us junkies.

if that doesn't work you seriously might have to consider an inpatient program....You can't beat this on your own...You're basically a car and the pills are your gas. My whole life for years was getting up, taking pills, going to work, taking more pills, while at work searching for pills, leaving work, buying more pills, take more pills, go to sleep and start the cycle again the next day. It's a vicious cycle. I know rehab is a scary word but if you can't do it yourself you need to put your life in the hands of a professional or this disease will kill you.


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