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Do you believe Suboxone should be continued for life?
Yes 57%  57%  [ 4 ]
No, 6 months or less 14%  14%  [ 1 ]
No, 1 month or less 29%  29%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 7
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:32 pm 
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Greetings all, this is my first post however I've been on these forums hundreds of time. Just a quick bio so you can relate to my personal situation (funny how we all end up in the same exact situation regardless of who we are with opiates). I'm a Mid Twenties, Male, Bachelors Degree, and opiate addict for 2 years. Like most I started using opiates after a disc injury from a car accident a month before graduating college. At first it started as low dose 15/mg Oxycodone as needed and it never crossed my mind this powerful drug would alter my brain chemistry and destroy the next 2 years of my life. I finished my 2nd months prescription and realized through friends these things were more popular than I could imagined. After realizing I was addicted because I ran out last 4th of July and experienced horrific w/ds while on vacation in Ocean City, Maryland I realized this needed to stop. So 12 months later, 50+ more days of withdrawl/depression, relapses, being broke, and unemployed I want the person I used to be back (like everyone here being treated with suboxone).

First, let me express the respect i have for YOU the READER for your bravery, courage, selfishness, and willingness to help on forums not just on this site but around the web and in clinics or meetings. Sometimes reading and expressing ones feelings is the therapy most of us needed in the first place.

Enough about my introduction lets talk about my experience with Suboxone:

I am currently 3 days clean and 1 day on Suboxone. The prior 2 days I've experienced horrible depression and I knew I couldn't go months without addressing my addictions withdrawl symptoms. I'm prescribed 8/mg suboxone daily, however I've used suboxone once before and know that even 2 mg of that 8/mg strip will provide relief for 2 days. After reading that Suboxone produces the same withdrawl as anyone's opiate, it's my personal decision to not trade one addiction for another (many of you will say this is a bad idea because I will relapse once off the subs because Im an addict). To you I say that there is no such thing as an addict we are all HUMANS chasing the dopamine high its human nature, it's called being HUMAN. If there should be a stigma associate with our use it should be we have an OPIATE HABBIT. We are all addicted to money, possessions, working out, women, and food which are all rewarding things that produce dopamine. This is called being human. We (opiate users) just enjoy opiates more because it produces dopamine at unparalleled levels, unnatural, and unattainable by routine pleasures in ones lives. This is why we will always crave opiates. I'm not an addict in denial, if you disagree with me and your still on suboxone how could you claim you beat the addiction if you are still using opiates daily. Your suboxone use will result in the same withdrawl effects as the Oxy, dope, morphine, or whatever you preference is. To not sound hypocritical, I will admit that I am addicted to opiates, but I'm also addicted to normal life pleasures such as love, money, sex, workingout, etc.. So are all humans addicts? Suboxone is a GODSEND drug for coming off of opiates, but it should be treated as any other opiate because it does produce withdrawls if discontinued abruptly. That's a conversation for another post but that's just my two cents sorry to get off topic. I just hate the stigma that is applied to being an addict, when in reality addicts are some of the most motivated people in society and if we applied our "addictive qualities" to anything we could achieve whatever we set our mind too. So take my word for it, if someone calls you an addict consider it a copliment, we are the most motivated people in the world.

I think in life it's good to set a goal, so as my first post I will give you mine: I want to be opiate free in 21 days from today. And remain in sobriety from opiates for life.

My suboxone use will be 2 mg every other day for the first week, after week 1, 1 mg every other day, and at the 2 week or 14 day mark, use as needed under 1 mg until day 21 in which all opiate use will be discontinued.

I am fully aware of the cravings after I discontinue mt suboxone use probably until 6 months or so after, but I will use this forum as a tool to battle those cravings to read the stories of others who have endured the opiate battle we face everyday to give me strength.

I will post in this topic for its therapeutical rewards of my progress for 90 days, to encourage people skeptical of Suboxone that you could get clean while using Suboxone for a very short period of time, and also that you don't have to endure the withdrawls associated with prolonged Suboxone use.

I apologize if I offended anyone in the begging of my post, but I know first hand knowledge that It makes no difference if you use Suboxone for 21 days like me or 6 months like a best friend of mine. The reason for this is because he stopped Suboxone after 6 months and remained clean for 1 year. At this point he felt that he should celebrate and just use for 1 night and is now an everyday user again. The moral of the story is that if we want to remain truly OPIATE free then we must have the mental strength to SAY NO, regardless if you have been clean for a year or 10 years. Opiates are some of the most powerful drugs in this universe, they should not be underestimated or used recreationally EVER even if its for one day.

Please participate in my Poll visible at the top of this page thanks.

If you enjoy sucess stories check out Ryan from freefromhell, simply type in free from hell in the youtube search and watch his Oxy overdose video.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post. I will need the support of the world to beat this habit, but it is possible. God bless Suboxone, and God bless all of you.



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:47 pm 
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Hi welcome, I see you have a plan. It is always nice to have a plan in place, sticking to that plan may be pretty tough. I wish you the best of luck. I don't debate on forums so there will be none of that. FACT- Once a person becomes physically and mentally dependent on any drug they begin the process of addiction. Drug seeking, you are right it is the most motivating thing in the universe to chase your drug of choice, we become highly motivated to do just that and some of us only that. We are the most motivated people us addicts! Then when our drug of choice is either taken away for some reason or we decide it is ruining our lives we want to stop Right, Yes! The problem is full agonist withdrawals are pure torture. I am sure you have figured this out by now. Withdrawals are down right un-bearable for most of us wanting to kick the addiction from those monsters. Thus the suboxone to have an easier if longer withdrawal process. I jumped off 3mg somedays 2mg and somedays 4mg. So lets just say 4mg since that was my highest usage dose when I stopped tapering.

I would say maybe your plan will work for you, I don't know. It depends, If you are a person like me for instance then your addiction to opiates caused you to mess up quite a few things in your life. I ripped mine to pieces literally chasing pain pills. So I needed some time to fix my life, get my priorities straight and get on the right path again. After chasing pain pills for 3 years I had quite a lot of fixing to do. It took 2 years in therapy while on suboxone and off full agonists to change my life style, get away from the pushers. Patch up relationships with my real friends and family etc.... It was a total life change and turn around for me and for people like myself, that turn around doesn't happen in a week or two. It took two years for me to do those things. I had a Psychiatrist help me to see where I was blinded by the effects of addiction to Opiates. So for me and others like myself TO SUB! I am 19 days off of suboxone and I am doing ok, just came in from a jog. I have my moments, but any one coming off any drug is going to have ups and downs through out the process. It takes time for the brain to heal itself and we just have to wait till it does. For some it can take months, for others they seem to breeze through the wds from suboxone. It all depends on the person and a lot on the personal situation a person is in.

Key is having a support system in place. Staying away from any opiates is also Key!
I wish you the best of luck and hope you do well with your plan. Best Wishes


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:32 pm 
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Thegreatestislove,

Thank you for replying I haven't smiled in days, and you just made me smile from ear to ear. I understand not one addict is the same, but every addict has one thing in common, we want to have a better life off of the pills.i'm so happy to hear your off of the subs and patching up your life and also exercising. Before my pain pills the one thing that truly got me "high" was working out whether it was lifting or running. Ryan, the guy I mentioned in my last post (Freefromhell on youtube) After 2 years of being clean runs 50 miles and 100 mile marathons. He also ran the entire state of NJ (Over 200) miles. Running is in my opinion the best and fastest way to heal your brain function back to as close as normal as we could get.

I know your journey has not been easy, nor has mine. I ruined relationships, my family's trust, and lost my soul during my dark journey. But for people like us as I said before are the most motivated people for what we have overcome, it is truly like we have lived in the fiery pits of hell, danced with the devil, and came back to Earth to not only save our selves but share the knowledge we have attained to help others.

Congratulations on getting your life back, you give me strong hope to see myself succeed. One day, one hour, one minute at a time. God bless


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:54 pm 
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Well, it sounds to me like you have your mind made up. You have a plan. I really wish you the best in it.

I'll tell you that after 3 years of being on suboxone, and now off for about 4 weeks, that MY withdrawal was much more mental than physical. I know that is not the case for everyone, and how do you know what it would be like for you after 3 weeks, 3 months, or 3 years? If you don't want to take the chance, sticking with a very short term detox sounds like the way to go.

However, now that I am through the worst of the suboxone physical withdrawal, I am not sure that going off was the right thing. I am considering going back on it. I messed up my life really bad when I was using. I am now experiencing cravings, and it's an easy choice to me: if suboxone keeps me clean, I'll keep on taking it.

Unfortunately, I don't think my story is one that will go in the support column for short term use of suboxone. But we are all different. I am a hardcore alcoholic who got mixed up in opiates at the end. Totally different story from yours, and your experience with suboxone will be totally different than mine.

Good luck, and keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:36 pm 
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Freedom,

Without imposing let me try to give you some words of support. Have you tried a lengthy taper like most who want to stop their Suboxone? I have read a lot of your posts and I know your a veteran when it comes to raw knowledge on tapering/withdrawl/and addiction. Right now it seems as if your at the caving in point regarding your cravings. Let me just say if you no longer have physical withdrawl symptoms and just mental then you are already in the clear, however the mental cravings are sometimes the worst symptom to deal with it can be done. Try and make a promise to yourself that instead of using Suboxone or an agonist you will first go on this forum and read a topic and make a post and then make your decision. Or even going on a walk or run. Cravings are said to last only 5-10 minutes and then go away if you keep your mind busy.

Anyway on a positive note look at the bright side you know you can stop if you truly dig deep, you have the knowledge to do so. Just know what ever decision you make, make it a healthy one. Suboxone or Sobriety, not relapsing or sobriety. You have reached the light at the end of the tunnel, now it's your choice to exit the tunnel or stay in it. congratulations man keep posting!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:50 pm 
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:wink: test

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:13 am 
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Hey Carpe,
Yes, I tapered for a long time, and got down to less than 2 mgs. I never posted during my taper, but read up about it here for most of the duration of my sub use.

I don't want to hijack your thread, but I am kinda at a loss right now as to what to do. I don't want to go back on subs, so I got a script for naltrexone. I'm going to start there.

I really hope that you don't experience the same things I have. Until you are off of opiates and sub for a while, it's hard to tell how you are going to feel. I struggled for years with alcoholism, in and out of rehab and the rooms. When I got on suboxone, it was like a miracle. I suddenly felt normal. In a way I imagine other people feel, those without the curse of addiction. I thought that after 3 years, I had it covered. I had my life together, and I had the tools to be sober. Now, I am not feeling so sure about that.

I don't want you to get the idea that I am trying to tell you that you won't be able to do a very short term sub taper. I would say that my addiction is very advanced, and went on for many years. There are plenty of people that do it your way.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:41 am 
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This was a really difficult poll for me, so in the end I chose to abstain as I don't think there's any hard and fast rules that apply to everyone when it comes to how long we should stay on Suboxone. A person with an incredibly long addiction history, who has attempted abstinence numerous times without success may find life-long maintenance, whether on Sub or methadone, to be the best option. But I really don't believe a person should limit themselves to life-long maintenance when they haven't at first tried abstinence.

Carpe Diem, if you want to use Sub as a detox-aid only, I don't believe you will even need to take it for 21 days. Many people have great success only taking Sub for 5-7 days when they use it as a detox aid. Taking it longer than a week and IMO you're gambling with becoming dependent on Sub. In my country they use Suboxone in detox clinics, but their rule is to not prescribe it any more than 6 days.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:30 am 
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TeeJay wrote:
This was a really difficult poll for me, so in the end I chose to abstain as I don't think there's any hard and fast rules that apply to everyone when it comes to how long we should stay on Suboxone. A person with an incredibly long addiction history, who has attempted abstinence numerous times without success may find life-long maintenance, whether on Sub or methadone, to be the best option. But I really don't believe a person should limit themselves to life-long maintenance when they haven't at first tried abstinence.


TeeJay said it exactly right! When I was weaning off subs, and finally stopped them, I certainly didn't ever think I was doing it just to go back on. But I also don't want to limit myself in any way.

And I agree that in the detox I was in, which was admittedly several years ago now, they were on and off subs in under a week. Carpe, why are you thinking of taking them for 21 days?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:22 pm 
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21 Days wasn't just a number that entered my head, I had many other attempts at quitting pain pills, almost always knocked down by relapse within days of being clean never made it past a week.

So 21 days of Suboxone at a very very low dosage every other day will be my longest point of being clean since I started, and these next 3 weeks I need to get my daily routine back in order, such as eating, exercise, and a complete lifestyle change in terms of my daily drug habits.

Here's my update: Day 4/Day 2 on Subs

Anyway I am 4 days clean of pain pills, 2nd day of Suboxone and like I said I don't need to take another 2 mg Sub until tomorrow morning. Last night I slept like a baby, got my 9 hours in maybe even overslept. Woke up just 20 minutes ago, just feeling blah, not hungry yet, just going to sit on my couch for an hour to watch Dexter, then eat breakfast. The Suboxone works well and I have very few if any cravings. I'm going to the gym this afternoon to get a daily routine going, also because I got an inch I need to lose around the waist. In regards to the last 2 years I just want to forget, It's so fresh of a stain in my mind it hurts to think about how messed up I really was. Just true motivation to never go back, I guess. Anyway thanks for your guys support, god bless all of you.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:52 pm 
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I answered yes...for life.

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 Post subject: For Life
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:09 pm 
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IMO, an addict needs to be off all opiates and Bupe for at least a year or more so the brain can heal and manufacture its own endorphins again. Some say 2 years.

Freedom, you and I are exactly alike. I got sober in '87 and then got hooked on pain meds about 12 years ago and have been on Sub or 3 years too. Alcohol and Sub are similar, they both hit the pleasure center of the brain. Thing is, you haven't been away from Suboxone long enough to know for sure if you need it long term or not. You say the cravings are back so in my book it's either go to some addiction program or go back on Sub again. Oh, what a world, what a world!

Part of me thinks I'll be on it for life, then the other part is tired of feeling tired and foggy headed. (only if idle)

The thing that worries me the most is facing surgeries again in the future. I did physical work most all my life and now I'm paying for it. I already suffered through two surgeries on Suboxone and those turned out very bad. Mostly it is the lack of knowledge in the medical field. Either that, or I faced some bias toward the drug. I think it was the former. Doctors just don't want to give us the large amounts of pain medication needed to dull the pain. They don't understand the tolerance part I think. At least mine didn't, or didn't care. He wouldn't even discuss it with me. Great surgeon, terrible pain manager. Now I am facing some hand surgery for one or more trigger fingers. Arrrrgh! I am hoping it will heal with the 2nd injection of Cortisone.

That my friends, is my dilema.

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