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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:35 am 
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In February I got off Sub after almost 7 years. Most of those 7 years, I was on a pretty low dose (1-2 mg). I tapered down to about 1/8 mg then jumped off with the help of Vicodin for 10 days for final phase (not recommend for those who had a real addiction issue before Sub...I was dependent on Vic for pain...never escalated my dose in 2 years).

Worst part of acute withdrawal, besides horrible aches and anxiety, was 11 days of insomnia...absolutely no sleep. :cry:

Now, six months later post-Sub I still have insomnia, though I do sleep. But it's a weird kind of sleep. I fall into a deep sleep, then wake up suddenly, then after a while fall into a deep asleep again, then wake up like a shot out of a cannon, then fall asleep for awhile...then, well you get the picture. I must wake up about 5 times a night.

Scary part is when I'm driving and this sudden deep sleep thing comes on me. I've actually veered over into another lane which of course was quite frightening. My neurologist/pain doc is going to order a sleep study.

The other symptom, is to put in delicately, a complete change in my bowel habits. I went from mostly hard stools to very loose (too loose). It has stayed this way since the initial intense bout of diarrhea during acute withdrawal stage.

Also, I still have rapid, disjointed thoughts at night. Very much a Suboxone side affect as that was not the case pre-Sub.

In terms of physical pain, I have felt like I've had fibromyalgia on and off. Can't even walk up the stairs without it being really difficult.) Some days less so than others. Worst pain is my neck pain (multiple issues) but that is where the originating pain began...the reason I took the Vicodin, then Sub in the first place. (I was put on Sub but never should have been...long story.)

Finally after a couple of weeks on Celebrex, it has reduced inflammation from neck pain by about 50%. Unfortunately, Celebrex is a super expensive drug...$230 p/month that my insurance won't cover. Generic form was just approved; however it will take another 4 months for it to come to market.)

So...my question is: Is all of this normal? Anyone else experienced this prolonged withdrawal with these exact (or similar) symptoms?

Advice/Comments/Insights would be much appreciated. :) It would help to know if others are going, or have gone through this and to know that it is or isn't due to protracted Sub withdrawal.

Thanks so much. You guys have always been so helpful in the past. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:56 pm 
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Several of us on the forum have experienced the sleep issues you're having (even at 6 months out). Some of us go close to a year before sleep normalizes. The loose stool for months out has happened to several of us, too. I was somewhere around 2 years plus before mine got better. I ended up seeing a gastroenterologist, he insisted on shoving a camera up my butt only to find nothing wrong. He told me to take fiber capsules, to which I said, "you had to shove a camera up my ass to tell me to take fiber capsules!!!" Reluctantly, I took the fiber capsules and VOILA, problem solved. The rapid disjointed thoughts at night, normal.

You may want to try Unisom (the one with Doxylamine Succinate NOT Diphenhydramine!!). In studies, Doxylamine Succinate was proven more effective than some prescription sleep meds, but unlike prescription sleep meds, Unisom in non habit forming.

As for your physical pain, that's a new one on me. Not saying it can't be from wd, just saying I don't remember seeing that before.

BTW, Congratulations on 6 months off Suboxone!!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:46 pm 
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You literally just described my sleep pattern although I am only about 34 days out that is quite literally how I sleep. Everything else is pretty much golden, but my sleep is still really really bad.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:23 pm 
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Romeo wrote:
Several of us on the forum have experienced the sleep issues you're having (even at 6 months out). Some of us go close to a year before sleep normalizes. The loose stool for months out has happened to several of us, too. I was somewhere around 2 years plus before mine got better. I ended up seeing a gastroenterologist, he insisted on shoving a camera up my butt only to find nothing wrong. He told me to take fiber capsules, to which I said, "you had to shove a camera up my ass to tell me to take fiber capsules!!!" Reluctantly, I took the fiber capsules and VOILA, problem solved. The rapid disjointed thoughts at night, normal.

You may want to try Unisom (the one with Doxylamine Succinate NOT Diphenhydramine!!). In studies, Doxylamine Succinate was proven more effective than some prescription sleep meds, but unlike prescription sleep meds, Unisom in non habit forming.

As for your physical pain, that's a new one on me. Not saying it can't be from wd, just saying I don't remember seeing that before.

BTW, Congratulations on 6 months off Suboxone!!






:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: too funy the canera should have been fiber itself


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:15 pm 
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Hey Romeo, thanks for taking one for the team. Because of you, no gastroenterologist will be violating me with a camera where the sun don't shine. I'll just learn from you and go get the fiber capsules. I presume they are over the counter?

Good suggestion on that particular sleeping aid. I'll give it a try. I have Trazadone but prefer not to take that because of dependency possibility. I took massive doses of it during the acute phase and it did help towards the end.

Question: When you say that the rapid disjointed thoughts are "normal" what does that mean? As in "normal" for a post-Sub experience during PAWS period? How long does this last? I did have this problem while on Sub...would think that by now this would be gone!

And thanks for the congrats. It was a very difficult withdrawal but I don't regret going through it. I'd just like all these "tail-end" very uncomfortable and/or annoying symptoms to be over with...once and for all. It does help to know others have gone through all this—especially because I haven't known what to attribute to Sub and what might be due to something that's completely unrelated to Sub.

Onwards and Upwards...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:35 pm 
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paythepiper wrote:
In February I got off Sub after almost 7 years. Most of those 7 years, I was on a pretty low dose (1-2 mg). I tapered down to about 1/8 mg then jumped off with the help of Vicodin for 10 days for final phase (not recommend for those who had a real addiction issue before Sub...I was dependent on Vic for pain...never escalated my dose in 2 years).

Worst part of acute withdrawal, besides horrible aches and anxiety, was 11 days of insomnia...absolutely no sleep. :cry:

Now, six months later post-Sub I still have insomnia, though I do sleep. But it's a weird kind of sleep. I fall into a deep sleep, then wake up suddenly, then after a while fall into a deep asleep again, then wake up like a shot out of a cannon, then fall asleep for awhile...then, well you get the picture. I must wake up about 5 times a night.

Scary part is when I'm driving and this sudden deep sleep thing comes on me. I've actually veered over into another lane which of course was quite frightening. My neurologist/pain doc is going to order a sleep study.

The other symptom, is to put in delicately, a complete change in my bowel habits. I went from mostly hard stools to very loose (too loose). It has stayed this way since the initial intense bout of diarrhea during acute withdrawal stage.

Also, I still have rapid, disjointed thoughts at night. Very much a Suboxone side affect as that was not the case pre-Sub.

In terms of physical pain, I have felt like I've had fibromyalgia on and off. Can't even walk up the stairs without it being really difficult.) Some days less so than others. Worst pain is my neck pain (multiple issues) but that is where the originating pain began...the reason I took the Vicodin, then Sub in the first place. (I was put on Sub but never should have been...long story.)

Finally after a couple of weeks on Celebrex, it has reduced inflammation from neck pain by about 50%. Unfortunately, Celebrex is a super expensive drug...$230 p/month that my insurance won't cover. Generic form was just approved; however it will take another 4 months for it to come to market.)

So...my question is: Is all of this normal? Anyone else experienced this prolonged withdrawal with these exact (or similar) symptoms?

Advice/Comments/Insights would be much appreciated. :) It would help to know if others are going, or have gone through this and to know that it is or isn't due to protracted Sub withdrawal.

Thanks so much. You guys have always been so helpful in the past. :)


Oh god. I had that "shot out of a cannon" thing. It happen to me last night, and I'm still on subs. Although I just started a difficult taper, so that might have something to do with it, as in it has to be rapid as well now, and not gradual. I meant for it to be 1-2 weeks max with two strips, but now its been a month on the subs, I didn't stick to original plan after some more sub became available and I used it for pain (which might have been a rationalization to avoid WDs, which are now going to be worse), Anyway, was using it for pain after getting worried about how oxy was affecting me, while using it for an injury (again..long story, but its second go-around quitting subs, while on this forum).

But the shot out of a cannon thing. I woke up last night thinking I missed an early AM dentist appointment, that isn't until tomorrow (I'm having deep cleaning done in quadrants, each week, at a Dental school to save $. Kinda painful too, as they get under the gums, but they provide plenty of Novocaine, and the linger pain is usually only a day or two). In the past when it's happened tho, the shot out of a cannon thing usually was proceeded by disturbingly vivid dreams, and then "EYES WIDE OPEN", and an anxiety attack. I'd have to go out into living room, put on the public radio station as an audio anchor to reality (as opposed to the dream), and sit there until I shook the dream. Occasionally I couldn't, and they'd haunt through most of the day, making me almost afraid to go to sleep again.

Anyway, If you want to avoid medications, maybe do a lot of research into various food supplements like amino acids (theanine is one that is supposed to be calming, for example), herbs, etc. Exercising at a certain time of the day might make a diff (some times might be more optimal than others, for you) if you're not already exercising, or even if you are, there's the aforementioned, time of day adjustment, consideration. None of these are things I'm doing, but are in the playbook when my system is clean(er), if I have such probs. For much if not most of my adulthood, I slept so good, like a child almost. No terrifying vivid dreams and the like. Good sleep is very precious. I think the fact that for most of my life, I have been a good sleeper, is one of the reasons why my general health is still decent for my age, as during sleep is when the immune system has the most resources at it's disposal for seek and destroy missions, and repairs. During the day, most of one's energy is devoted to things like interacting with their immediate environment, all of which is very complex and energy consuming, even if it doesn't seem so, as its reflexive and not something one tends to think much about, but rather just does.


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