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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:07 pm 
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I get clean time for a month or a a week or two at best, been an opiate user for 10 years...last four years, it went from once or twice a month, to several times a week. Last 3 years, daily. then sporadic clean time, perhaps a total of 5 months in the past 4 years.

Lost house, Fiance (future wife), job, and I live in the basement of a friends home. Lost life savings. Living off scraps. Destroyed my face, was a one-time model, now I look like faces of meth.

Sub is so good, I keep going back to it, instead of staying clean.

Became a daily heroin user the past year, about a bunny to two bunnies a day.

Was a roxi user before then, about 210 mgs per day.
Also used OPANA 40s

My last session of being clean, I took 12 mg of sub and I was still shitty the first day.

IMO, the first day is always the hardest..not the second or third.

Also, sub is so strong. One mg is all i should take, so right now, I am coming off being clean for 3 weeks and have been using for about 4 weeks.

Using a two bundles of heroin a day, just snorting, never shot up.

I want to do a 4 day sub detox.

1 mg day one
1 mg day two
.5mg day three
.5mg day four

though I will feel horrible, I figure the less sub the better. Will I get sub if I do this?

I know that have used sub a lot, but never longer than a week. In one year, I used about 80mgs of sub, spread out the whole year, never longer than a week I said. I just don't want to get hooked on sub.

Whoever has experience with sub, should the regimin I post be good enough? I plan to do meetings, go to gym, cut off cell phone ties.

Here is the problem, I have a PH.D exam the end of this month, should I use and kick once the exam is done? I want to make sure I can study during clean time but i know i will be fatigued. I just do not want to blow this exam, please motivate me to make the right decision. I'm too fried to make a decision and I do not trust myself.

I'm mid 30's. A good honest person who took the wrong road in life. I gave into depression and anxiety. I have never had more than one girlfriend and I get shy easy and I have sociel anxiety.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:51 pm 
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This is my opinion and story, nothing more, take what you want from it. I was a user for several years. Never graduated to heroin, but probably wasn't far from it. I have been clean since 2-28-12, I won't say sober because I am still on Suboxone (again MY opinion). When I first started Sub i coudn't understand how it was better, it almost seemed like trading one addiction for another. Hoever, I have found that each day gets easier. I takes a long time to break thought patterns and behavior, but the sub has allowed me to do this. It may be another year, but I hope to be off sub by end of 2013. Sub has allowed me to live a normal life, one where I don't wonder what is going to happen next with drugs. I view Sub as a means to an end, it allowed me to modify behavior and thoughts, so that now stopping them is not as scary as it was when I first started.

I think you should give a full blown program a try, while you may feel that you might get addicted to suboxone, it might just surprise you and allow you to see a light at the end of the tunnel. Its too easy to go back to using without something to help. Also when you have a craving on sub, it is almost worthless, by the time it wears off, the thought to get more drugs is usually gone by the time you can use again.

Remember, this is my story and opinion. But feel free to take from it whatever you can.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:18 pm 
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My Opinion:
I dont believe your plan will work.. Im 99% sure with the pattern that you explained, you will relapse in less than a few months.. probably sooner. Again, this is my opinion. Ive never heard of anyone that was able to take 1mg for 2 days then .05mg for 2 days then be done. You mise well not even take sub.. 1mg isnt gonna give you any type of relief. Honestly I would recommend the same as the above post.. try a sub program, you have nothing to lose.. obviously nothing you have tried before has worked. The statistics for people that use sub for a short detox (your's is actually beyond short) and staying clean are almost none. Read around the forum and EDUCATE yourself on sub treatment.. thats the best thing you can do.. after you are well informed on every aspect then make a decision on what you think will work for you. I can assure you that if you follow a program and take sub as prescribed, you ARE NOT trading one drug for another.. you will be dependent on sub but NOT ADDICTED to sub.. BIG DIFFERENCE. I hope you do stick around and please keep us updated on how things are going for you.. There are many of us here that will help you and support you if needed, all you gotta do is ask. I wish you the best and remember to EDUCATE yourself as much as possible about this med.. Addiction doesnt get any better and neither do the outcomes if you dont do something about it.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:27 pm 
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Also I wanted to point out that sub is strong but to someone coming from active addiction making the switch to sub, 1mg is NOTHING. Some people eventually taper down but 98% of people ive seen or heard/read about ALWAYS start out at least taking 8mg, 8-24mg is usually the dose I know people to be on unless they are tapering. Again, this is only in my experience/knowledge.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:14 pm 
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I appreciate the response and feedback.

I have been reading on sub and have been around people who say the w/d from subs, the PAWS, can last up to 6 months to a year. that is too much for me.

Please, do you guys think I should wait until my exam is over to start sub or do it now?

I will do this:

day 1: 4 mg
day 2: 1 mg
day 3: 2 mg
day 3: 1 mg
day 4: 1 mg
day 5: .5mg
day 6: .5 mg
day 7: jump

i know peple on over 1000mg of oxy intake per day that only needed 4mg for sub relief
a little of sub goes a long way, anything over 8mg in one day is a monster of a dose.


my problem is, that i get clean and then think I can do it one day and it just drags into months.

this drug has robbed my life, i just want to be rid of this monkey already.

thank you for your replies and your input, i appreciate it greatly


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:38 pm 
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Ill tell you what happened to me last November just to see if it might help you out some or maybe change the plan up some. First off, a little history I was a opiate abuser for four years taking everything that I could get my hands on. I started off on Tramadol's and if you take enough of them, yeah you will get high. I went to Lortab and eventually to Percocet and mixed Subutex with Benzo's and snuck to ER's for what I could get there. Anyways, they started me on 16mg of Sub a day which was honestly too much but didnt realize it at the time. My doctor was basically a revolving door that shot out scripts. When I got on Here to Help, she bumped me up to 24mg a day and I didnt even need it. There was one month that I couldnt come up with the money for the doctor visit and I had to go to my PCP to try and find something to take to curb WD's.
I will be the first to tell you that WD's on about 12mg of Sub which is what I was on, was fucking horrid. I have been pill sick enough times and Sub WD's is like being pill sick ten times over. It took every single bit of energy that I had, the desire to do anything not to mention the physical WD's. I ran to the bathroom so much I wore a path out, I even went to the ER because I honestly thought that I had the flu because I did run a fever there for a couple of days. I could have been sick but one ER doc said that it was kidney stones, another said that it could have been Endometriosis. I dont think either one of them knew their ass from a hole in the ground.
I went through this for two weeks with not a end in sight. NOW, since I had the relapse my doctor during that time put me on Tramadol's and Klonzepam to get through it. I should have asked for Subutex off label or something else but I figured that I had been on Sub long enough and that I could do this. Boy was I wrong. I just wasnt ready for it. I started abusing the Tramadol's quickly.
Now back to what I was saying, now that I am at a new doctors office where I dont feel like its a revolving door things are much better. Doc has me on 2 a day but I only average about one to 1 1/2 a day. Most days its just one a day, and I fight through the rest. Willpower is the best thing to learn if at all possible. If you can harness it, just go on to a Sub doc and let them put you on about one a day and work through the treatment program. Find someone to talk to and go through it correctly. I dont suggest just doing that for four days because being in active addiction on what you are taking, and jumping off in four days could put you in some serious WD's.
I wish that my system worked like my husbands. He has no addiction qualities whatsoever and if he took pain pills three times a day for a week or so, could throw them away in the blink of an eye and have no WD's whatsoever. He says that the only thing that gives him the WD's are Tramadols but LT or Perc's dont do that for him. I wish that I could be like that, its not that he just wipes it from his mind, he just literally has no WD symptoms at all. He has just as much energy as before and basically is normal.
He told me during the two weeks of hell that if I had a joint that it would take care of my gastro problems and I would probably feel alot better. I am not suggesting anything, but THC is used for alot of things and is completely 100 percent natural.
I wish you the best, I think you would be better off getting into a program and staying on a low dose basically 8mg and under for a few months. I am weak minded myself and its taking me longer than others. I just am not ready to be off of it yet. I plan on doing it for atleast another year tapering down during that year. I dont want to be on a real high dose before I start tapering down. I just worry about the masking of underlying pain because when I was off of it awhile, I had alot of pain when I was off so I need to go get checked up to make sure that there is nothing real bad wrong. Sub is really good for pain, some people will tell no and you are ignorant if you think it does, but it works wonders for me.
Anyhow,I hope that you make the best decision for yourself. What YOU think is best for you will always prevail. Just be careful and be safe about it. I am hoping that you do this with supervision.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:06 pm 
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I would suggest taking the sub before the exam to answer your question. Some advice I can add is to try thinking about the here and the now of your day.

I see post and have noticed in my opinion a lot of fortune telling. In other words thats my own sarsactic way of saying that I read about, a lot of folks trying to predict what's going to happen in the future.

Do what you have to do as far as the sub. Then prepare for your exam and go from there.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:04 pm 
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Here is what I have noticed on this board. I do not mean to be offensive or to insult, but I am being honest and sincere with the best of intentions, so I hope no one takes this the wrong way.

It seems that some people do not have a handle on the subject of subs. again, this is not to be offensive. the reason i say it is because of the high doses I have read people take here. A little goes a long way. 4mg of sub is a monster does by any stretch of the imagination, and then people say they are taking 6 16mg 24mg of sub? that is so crazy.

i was educate on subs by taking them and also on what I have read on them.

in rehab, people who had such high doses of pills or herion, were on 4mg to 8mg MAX of sub a daily, quickly dropping down.

also, here is another issue I have. i have heard the addiction to sub makes pill/heroin w/d seem like a walk in the park.

i cannot take a w/d that lasts for months which is what sub does. when people are addicted to .5 mg of subs or addicted to sub crumbs per day, what does that tell you in regards to its strenght?

please read on the heroin-detox DOT COM. it is a great website, and very informative.

it has a great sub forum, it is mostly for pill addicts but the sub forum is the best i have seen. i have been a member there and i will be a member here. we are a community that needs to help each other.

i appreciate and will be open to any suggestions i hear from people. i want to be helped but also want to help others by my own experience.

now, if i do sub for a 3 week regimin, then essentially, i am healing my brain for a few weeks and then making a jump. the short term detox is too quick so I understand the point being made. again, i am just so scared of getting addicted to sub long term.

read some horror stories from people and they will stick into your mind.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:48 pm 
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JimmyPageLover I think we are past the point of apologizing, in other words we are both expressing our opinions diplomatically. I think you are right to some degree about sub being addictive, but I also think that people who are on a crumb or small dose daily are fighting their mind, and I don't mean that to upset anyone. I am a firm believer that our minds are very powerful. I used to make my exhusband get the flu, he had the flu one time and anytime he thought he might be getting sick he was so scared that it was the flu, that I finally had enough and said I bet you are. He got the flu every 6 months. I know it was not nice, but I couldn't help it. I do agree with you that sub probably won't be any easier to get off than pills. But I think it changes our addictive behaviors, and for those of us that don't want it the rest of out lives, it will help us in that journey.

I did not mean to come off unsympathetic to your plight and I apologize. I really really hope you suceed, and if you need someone to listen to you or support, please pm me. I wish you the best of luck, and did not mean to hurt your chances of success. If this works for you, maybe you can share your story and help someone else. Again best of luck and keep me posted. I have been on sub 5 days short of 1 year. My goal is to be off by March 1, 2014. Also, if it doesn't work for you, please please try again. Life is so much more beautiful sober. Good luck and I hope to hear your success story.

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