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 Post subject: Stupid Heroin
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:50 am 
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I used that title but I am really mad at myself. I weaned off suboxone and of course I eventually started using again. I hate it. I hate myself. I am trying to stop opiates on my own and have been sitting on the toilet for the past 6 hours.

I guess I didn't want to think that I needed to be on subs. But the good thing about being on them is that even if u want to get high, you can't. It is such a psychological help I can't explain it. The 'man' is always there waiting for me to falter and of course he is so happy to see me after a few months. 'Where have you been Josh? I got something real good for you" or something to that effect.

Suboxone started to give me my life back. But I was arrogant and thought that I could stop using them and I'd be ok. NA/AA who needs that? I have the will power... (as I sit on the toilet with my laptop on my lap... sorry for the details).

Where are those ads "This is your brain on drugs" ... How about "This is you using opiates, laying in your bed all day until you get sick and have to find enough money to get high again... then go back to your bed and stare at the ceiling and not deal with your life... any questions?"


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:28 am 
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Hi Josh and welcome,
I posted a short welcome in another thread, but now I see you posted here. We're glad you found us. I think you'll find this forum full of supportive people willing to share their experiences to help others.

I'm so sorry you're at such a dark place right now. On the other thread you mentioned the possibility of going back on suboxone. Are you thinking about doing that? Another poster went off and decided to go back on for the long haul. I hope you have the benefit of her replies here. I'm on suboxone long term as are others on this site. I hope you find a way that works for you, be it back on suboxone or something else. We're glad you're here. Post often.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:33 am 
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Welcome to the forum. First off don't beat yourself up so much.....guilt and shame will kill us. I know your thinking nothing is good about this and how bad you feel but....this is also a miracle because you have now realized you cannot do this on your own. You need help to do this. You can try the abstinence route but I think you will be just as miserable with the obession to use. You said suboxone was giving you your life back why not go back? The one thing about this disease is our thinking....we get to feeling better and we think we can handle it. So if it was me I would look at this issue as a blessing..that I truly am an addict and I can not do this alone. Try it again........give it more time to work on you and your recovery and move own....Beating yourself up is not the answer....you did it...your remorseful...now focus on fixing it so it doesn't happen again...we will be right here to help you through it. Good Luck.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:09 am 
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Hey Josh,
As the others have said .... WELCOME to the Forum ! I don't have any experience with "H" but I do have the GOOD fortune of being on Suboxone. In my case it is for long Term as Well (For Now anyway). My DOC was Oxycodone and I was lucky to get on Suboxone about 14 months ago now.... I hope you give yourself another chance at LIFE and try the Suboxone route again.. Whatever you choose know that you can find Support here. We are ALL in the same boat. We may have different ways to go about Recovery But the End game is the same..... " NO OPIATES" and that will give us our best chance to live a 'Normal life" Whatever that is!!!@! :D Please keep posting so we can keep up with your Progress! Best of Luck in your Recovery...

God Bless
TW


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:09 pm 
Hi Josh! I'm sorry you've relapsed. It's so hard not to, isn't it? Everyone who has replied to you so far has given you great advice and support. I'd like to add mine.
Although I never used heroin, I think the some of the drugs I had used were pretty much the same sort of high. Once you've experienced that.....it's over! People who haven't lived it, can't possibly understand it. The pull of the drugs....the irrational obsession to feel that way again, just one more time.....the compulsion that goes against everything in you!
Please don't beat yourself up anymore. It doesn't do any good! At least now you have some answers.....you know where and how to find relief. It's up to you whether to go the abstinence route or whether to go back to Suboxone. I say go with the evidence......if Sub worked for you before, it can work for you again. There is no shame in that. To me, you just can't dispute the science of the medication......It works.
What matters the most, Josh, is you.....your life. You need to do whatever is best for you.....what gives you the best chance to stay alive, to be a contributing member of society. I know in a way it sucks! None of us necessarily wants to be on Sub, but the alternative is much, much worse, right?
Anyway, I've rambled enough. You're in good company here! Please keep posting!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:21 pm 
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I just want to thank all you guys for your positive support. After rereading my post, I can see how negative and hard I was being on myself. You're right, just because I had a relapse, doesn't mean it's the end of the world.

I have an appointment with my doc this upcoming week. I am going to restart the subs and get back on track. I am not going to give up.

And, I am glad to have found this website. Once again, thank you everyone :)


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 Post subject: Good for You!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:39 pm 
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Josh,
I am glad you have decided to give Suboxone another try. It sounds like you are committed to your Recovery.... If I could give you my .02 cents. You should combine the Suboxone with some counseling. That's what I found to be most helpful. I also use this Forum as part of my Recovery. I'm sure you will do fine.... Please keep posting your thoughts will help others in their own Recovery... Take Care..... :!:

God Bless
TW


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:24 am 
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Hi Josh! I posted on your intro thread but there is more information on here. I am sorry, but I had to laugh at your commercial idea. That WOULD be much more effective and far more realistic. Not that I am laughing at your situation because it does suck. I am glad you have decided not to beat yourself up too much because you don't need that. I hope you are really taking that to heart and going easy on yourself. Addiction is a royal bitch of a disease and relapse is part of the recovery process. Everyone has done it and we are just grateful that so far, you have made it through. I hope that you can get back on the sub ASAP. I agree with the counseling suggestion. I think sticking around here might help also. It does for me anyways. Helps keep things real for me.

Take care!
Cherie


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:35 pm 
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Just an update...

I have been heroin free for a little over a week. I called my doctor and I have an appointment for this upcoming week. However, I am wondering... since I am past the point of physical withdrawal from the H, would it be a good idea to go on the suboxone? Or should, like some have suggested, just bolster my support network (meetings etc) and hold off on the subs?

I think it was a help, while on subs, knowing that I couldn't get high even if I decided to at some point. Although, I didn't have the mental craving while I was on the subs.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:30 am 
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That’s great you’ve been off heroin for that long. I wish I knew how that felt. In the past 5-7 years, I’ve been on oc’s, heroin, or suboxone every day of my life. I wish I knew what it was like to not be on any opiates again…. It’s been way way to long. If it was me, I’d try and stay off everything and just get some counseling and go to meetings.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:05 am 
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It's, obviously, up to you. I'd make a list, pros and cons. That's amazing you got through the withdrawals cold turkey, I have never used heroin but I know the withdrawals are similar to Oxycodone (probably worse.) Right now, I'm trying to wean off Suboxone after 7 months of being on it, and it isn't fun. However, it allowed me to do well in school & get my life back, the few times I slipped up I barely felt anything (not to say I haven't had cravings.) I think, regardless of what path you take, that you should have support. If you plan to not get back on subs, I'd say get every kind of support possible, counseling, NA, clean friends.. My habit was short and not as severe compared to many others, and considering I'm so young (21) I'd really rather not be on subs much longer. Have you had many cravings this past week, after your w/d stopped? Maybe.. you could reschedule your appointment to give yourself some time to think. If were to get back on subs, I know you said maybe for the long haul. Some people need this, some need it as a transition. Whatever gives you a better quality of life. I'd definitely have someone you can call 24/7 for support in the meantime though if you do have cravings, delete bad numbers and all that. I'm weary to tell you that since you got through it, you might be ok keeping off it all. It seems like your last relapse taught you a lesson. Overall, look at the big picture and how high risk you think you are for relapsing and how much you could lose. There's nothing wrong with either choice as long as you have a plan to keep sober. Good luck :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:11 am 
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Joshbgood wrote:
Just an update...

I have been heroin free for a little over a week. I called my doctor and I have an appointment for this upcoming week. However, I am wondering... since I am past the point of physical withdrawal from the H, would it be a good idea to go on the suboxone? Or should, like some have suggested, just bolster my support network (meetings etc) and hold off on the subs?

I think it was a help, while on subs, knowing that I couldn't get high even if I decided to at some point. Although, I didn't have the mental craving while I was on the subs.


Although this post is over two months old, I would like to add my experience because it's similar to the dilemma that Josh was facing, though it soon became a no-brainer for this addict.

I relapsed off Sub at the end of last March. By May, I was back to using even more oxy than I was when I first went on Sub. At then end of May, I decided to get off the opiates, came clean with my family, my doctors, told my work that I had a kidney stone and kicked at home for 4 days before dragging my butt back into work. I stayed clean for about a week more. I kept waiting for the obsession to lessen, went to meetings, tried to keep myself busy. Then, I found a bottle of hydros in my dad's cupboard. "I'll take just three," I told myself. "Just enough to get some relief from the obsession." It worked. OMG! It worked so well to relieve the obsession! Just 3 little 5mg pills brought that ease that I missed so much. It had been so long since so little would bring that chemical peace.

As everyone on this forum knows all too well, I couldn't stop at those three pills and in under two weeks, I was back to 110mg/day of my dad's oxys (the bottle of hydros were long gone by then). Then, I stopped for a few days again but started back up. I did this for two months, ending up with almost 2 weeks clean before wanting to put a gun to my head because the obsession wouldn't go away and I had burned every doctor-bridge that I had. By the end of July, I was both snorting and chewing 110mg a few times a day (had to snort because my stomach couldn't handle all that oxy) and it wasn't enough to get me high.

Although I wasn't really physically addicted by the time that I scheduled my appointment with my Sub doc (every couple of weeks, I was spending a few days in withdrawal), I knew that I would hit the street in no time if I didn't get back on Sub. My first experience with Sub was a bit of a nightmare. People had convinced me to try to get off them ASAP and I was decreasing my dose after the first two weeks, battling cravings that I couldn't satisfy because I was blocked. This time, I had a different doctor. Although he's almost as bad as the first one (in that he really doesn't have time to work with his patients), he was willing to listen to the IOP counselor and put me on a sufficient enough of a dose that the cravings were satisfied.

With all my heart, I wanted to get clean the "NA way" with no replacements, but not even having accomplished a physical withdrawal and remaining opiate-free for almost two weeks at one point, could get my head to the point of not needing a replacement.

I don't know how Josh made out. If he was able to do it without replacement, my hat is off to him. This addict tried to do it that way but realized that replacement therapy was better than trying to tear herself out of her skin or putting a bullet through her head in order to quiet the obsession.

IMO, any point at which legitimately prescribed Suboxone will keep an addict from using is the point at which they should seek replacement therapy, whether physically addicted to an opiate or not.


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 Post subject: familiar obsession
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:32 pm 
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Hi Christin, thanks for sharing more of your story. Josh's story and yours sound very familiar to me. Spending a few days in WD every couple of weeks sounds familiar to me...actually there were periods of months at a time when I pretty much spent every weekend, or at least part of every weekend in WD...adn availability of heroin has been a big problem for me, as it seems it was for Josh, and the pills for you. I also relate to you and Josh talking about how the suboxone helps but yet you still have trouble with the obsessive cravings...I am in a place of transition now--it's been a bit over 3 weeks since I used any street drugs, and I've been struggling with my suboxone dosage--trying to use the sub properly, which has been a big problem for me....So..I just wanted to let you know, I really relate to your posts. And I'd like to share this anecdote with you...yesterday I saw my doctor and when I told her about relapsing--that is, doing heroin even though I'm on sub...she assumed that I stopped taking the sub for a few days before doing heroin...I said "no--I don't stop taking it, I don't have the self-control for that"--my doctor seemed surprised and asked what happened then, when I did heroin while still on sub..so I told her...well, no, I can't feel the heroin, unless I use for 3 days straight (and stop taking the sub while I'm using, of course, which I obviously DO have the "self control" (ha-ha) to stop taking sub if I have heroin) and then around the 3rd day I can feel the heroin but it is just awful, just exhaustion mostly and feeling terrible and out of it and just wanting to sleep it off and hopefully get back to a more normal functioning state as soon as possible)....so...my doctor said "well the heroin is just a waste then?" and I said, yes! and that you know, I find myself wondering, again and again, WHY am I doing this. Sometimes when I'm on heroin and able to feel it because of a few days of using and not taking my sub I just think to myself "so THIS is what I wanted to feel?!" and I feel so stupid. Yet, I have found it so hard to put an end to this behavior. So...I told my doc--well, some of this addictive behavior is just so COMPULSIVE, I can't give any other explanation for it....Then, at the end of my appointment I talked to my doc about my smoking issue--I have been taking chantix for a couple of months now and I have gone from 2 packs a day of cigarettes to usually 2 cigarettes a day (though it varies a little). Well, that's great progress of course...but..my doctor didnt' understand why I would still be smoking those 2 cigarettes a day....I asked her if she has ever been a smoker, the answer is no...so I really had to say, I don't think I can give you an adequate explanation for this...I'm still trying to get that happy little feeling that sometimes can be obtained from a cigarette....

Anyway, guys, and Christin, and Josh, I hope you are doing ok....This addiction stuff is tough and for some of us at least...it seems very hard to apply logic to it....I'm not saying we shouldnt' TRY...I DO try...to think about what I'm doing or what I'm contemplating doing, and think about the consequences...yet..for some unexplainable reason it's still easy for me to make BAD choices....Now..I dont' mean to make lame excuses, but I do believe that for me (and probably for a lot of people) that it's often a lot about trying to escape from pain...but...I think...there are even times when I'm really in a state of overall good well-being...and I would STILL be obsessed with doing heroin if it were available...that is the unexplainable compulsive part...well, for me, I guess (and I assume for most addicts) AVAILABILITY is the WORST kind of trigger..well..."duh"...of course...but it's like....the term "trigger" is just so apt for that situation''If heroin is there..I will want to do it....So...staying AWAY from it, and form peoples who might have it or get it, clearly is my first line of defense.

Suboxone of course, also does really help, even in my case, a person who has for the most part not been taking it properly.

Anyway I just wanted to respond to you Christin, and tell you I'm glad you posted on the end of Josh's post here and let you know... I can really relate...And...though I'm still just very recently starting to do better now..But, I AM doing better and I have more hope now of progressing and being able to keep my addiction in remission and to use my sub properly now...It has really helped me when other's on the forum have told me how they had struggles with behavior very similar to my story and have finally gotten better....And...I hear your pain Christin, about the obsession, I really do....and it's like you do all the things you're supposed to and you're still obsessed..and talking about it at meeting sometimes just seems like it's making you obsess more...I know, I know...and you're doing well, but you aren't....So we really do have to believe in ourselves when we are doing the right things...and sometimes just waiting it out is the biggest battle....addiction is the one situation in life where being a procrastinator can help you...if you just ALWAYS procrastinate about acting on your obsession....KEEP procrastinating...well, it can help....sometimes, you procrastinate long enough, your obsession goes away..but even if your obsession doesnt' go away, maybe (hopefully) the availability of the drugs will go away..and hopefully while you are PROCRASTINATING you are learning to not act on that obsession...

I will say though, sometimes procrastinating hasn't worked out for me and especially bad is if I set any kind of time limit ..for instance if I tell myself "I"ll wait til tomorrow at least" then it is almost like making a date to get the drugs tomorrow...so.. better for me, I find, to tell myself "I'm not doing it NOW" adn remind myself of how it's too much trouble and also how I won't even enjoy it, etc...

Well, sorry if I sound lame....all I can say is, at least I AM doing better now, and I'm glad for that...

And I wish you guys well too, and like I said, hanging in there is a big part of it I guess...so..keep hanging in there and try to remind yourself that hanging in there is an accomplishment...a huge accomplishment. For me, having people from this forum remind of that has really really helped me and I'm so grateful to everyone who's taken the time to connect with me and give me their input of information, ideas, suggestions, techniques, but most of all the support...I just wish I could give back more...but...I guess me doing well is a way of giving back and maybe that is something to remember too..

Thanks everybody.


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