It is currently Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:32 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Stuck at 16 mg's
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:01 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 28
I've been on sub for almost 4 years and I've been at 32 mg's pretty much the entire time and in the past 3 months I've tapered down to 16 mg's, but I can't seem to get below 16 mg's. I'd like to be completely off in 6 months but I can't seem to get over this hump. Any suggestions from those who have beaten the beast would be appreciated.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: What is 'stuck'
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:21 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:59 pm
Posts: 993
Location: Carson City, Nevada
Just wondering what you mean by stuck. Are you having w/d symptoms? Pain? Cravings? Honestly, don't take this the wrong way, but the truly tough part happens as you get below 4 mg, so if you are struggling right now, you might have to think about a longer taper. However, that's not at all the end of the world. Hey, you've already cut your dose in half!! I'm curious what symptoms are making it tough for you, though, because most people don't stay at 32 for mg for that long unless it's for pain control. If you're going down and your pain is returning, then you have to figure out how you will control it if you want to get down even further. I haven't 'beaten the beast' myself, but I was on 32 mg for about 2 years or a little less...it's so hard to remember....Now I'm at 2 mg. For me at least, it wasn't hard until 4 mg.

laddertipper

_________________
First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:37 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 28
I'm not really having any physical symptoms. It's pretty much all mental I know that physically I'll be fine but I obsess about it all day and it just consumes my thoughts thinking that I need more.


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:54 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 879
Location: Wisconsin
It sounds like you have clarified a bit about being "stuck". I was going to suggest, and still do, that you make sure you are getting maximum absorption from your dose. Make sure that you don't swallow at all and that the tablet is completely dissolved. As long as you are getting good absorption, for most people, they won't even be able to tell the difference between 16 mg and 32 mg daily. In fact the current recommendation for addiction patients is to not prescribed more than 16 mg per day. There is a very good reason for this - that being that more than 16 mg is not likely to do much for you. The way Sub works, once it hits it's top level, taking more does not result in any additional effect. This is commonly referred to as the ceiling.

From all I have read, and from what I have directly experienced, (just as Ladder stated) you should be able to go down to around 4mg a day before you have much difficulty. You should most certainly be able to go from 16 to 12 without feeling much if anything physically.

All that said, it sounds like it is the mental cravings that you are having trouble with. I am not even a novice in dealing with this - never mind an expert. All I can tell you is that you somehow need to continue to remind yourself that the feelings you may be having are not physical - they are all psychological. Dr. Junig suggests that if you distract yourself and push yourself through cravings, they will often pass within 30 minutes. If you continue to do this for a couple of weeks, they will subside and go away.

What else are you doing for addiction treatment? Are you in counseling? Do you attend group meetings? It would certainly seem that you are going to need something and someone to help you here. All I can say, is it can be done. It really can. It may not be easy, but it is doable. Hopefully someone with more experience in this area will stop by with some better suggestion. I just want to reinforce that from a medical standpoint, you should be able to continue to get yourself lower.

Perhaps if you can give us a few more details of what you have tried and what has been happening, that will help us to better help you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:44 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
SUBliminal,

If you're NOT splitting your dose, example, twice per day dosing, that would make things exponentially harder for you to taper.

I would suggest you be dosing at twice a day minimum during a taper. I was actually at 3 times per day as I got lower.

Are you now or have you been splitting your dosing up?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:48 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 28
I've never had any formal counseling, I've only been reading stuff on this forum. It's hard with three kids and working full time to go to any kind of counseling or meetings, but I guess I should make time if I expect to get any better.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:52 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Don made some good points so I won't add anything to that. But I will say that a good, mostly painless way to make a dosage drop is to dose lower every other day (16, 12, 16, 12 or even 16,14, 16, 14). You'll adjust to that quickly and probably won't even notice the change. Give yourself a couple weeks, then drop again. This works for many people. I hope this helps. Good luck.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:00 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 28
Yeah I'm splitting my dose, but I recently had to go on nightshift and it seemed to have made everything harder.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:06 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
Yeah, I can see why your having a hard time. Nightshift is a crappy shift for a healthy human body, let alone one trying to taper down on suboxone.

Hmmm, are you able to get a solid block of sleep during the day or do you sleep like I used to on midnights, a few hours here, a few hours there?

Can you get your hands on any 2mg pills so you can taper extremely slowly?


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:26 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 28
I can usually catch a little nap at work and then I generally sleep from 7am to noon sometimes 1pm and it really throws of my dosing schedule. I was doing pretty good when I was on dayshift I would take 4 mg's 3 times a day, and felt good with no symptoms and as soon as I switched to nightshift it just didn't work out. I just need to come up with a plan that fits my schedule. I would like to get some 2 mg strips but I don't know if my doc would do that since I am prescribed 32mg but only take 16 so I don't know how to go about getting some other than trading some of my 8's with someone but I don't know anyone with the 2 mg strips.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Taper Therapy
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:33 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:05 pm
Posts: 24
Hey Sub,

This is probably one of the best taper programs you can get. It was created by a wonderful guy named Robert. He's on another forum I'm apart of and he made this taper therapy for people. I followed this for a long time going from about 4mg to .5mg. It worked for me and he's gotten hundreds of people safely down. Give it a shot. I'm also hoping that others may find this useful. It's typically pretty easy to taper when your at high doses. I remember not having trouble until I reached down to probably 1-2 mg a day. Even at 4 mg's a day I didn't have much trouble getting down to 2. Give it a shot once you get lower. For now, even cutting that dose in half shouldn't effect you much. If it does then go to 24mg or something. Do what works for you. This taper is more formulated for people at about 4mg but maybe it will help you out. Good Luck :)

"The standard taper I used and promote is that if you will reduce by 25% of the total daily dose and maintain that dose for a period of four full days while experiencing no w/d symptoms it’s safe to reduce again by another 25% and expect the same results. If you experience any w/d symptoms during the four day period you can take a .25 - .5mg sliver (depending on your existing dose) and the w/d symptoms usually dissipate immediately. If you require slivers to remain stable at any level you should start over the next day trying to put four days together again. "


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:46 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
I wanted to add something else. Try to remember that getting off of sub - or even getting lower on your dose - is not a race. Try not to compare your dose to that of others. Try to go slow and remember, any discomfort you might feel will be temporary. Distract, distract, distract. Dr. Junig recommends dropping by only 10% and waiting until you're stable - a week or two - before making the next drop.

Chances are you're freaking yourself out about this. We've all done it. Try not to perseverate too much on tapering down and off. And consider this...if going off sub has this kind of effect on you, ask yourself if you're really ready to be off it yet. Just a thought. Hang in there and let us know how you're doing. :)

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:21 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 28
Thanks everybody for the advice I really appreciate the encouraging words. I'll try not to let my mind get the better of me and I'll keep you posted.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:26 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 28
Well I've just finished my second day of taking 4 mg's 3 times a day thats a switch from taking 8 mg's twice a day and so far I feel fine other than some leg and feet pain, but nothing serious. I feel a lot more focused and dedicated to tapering this time where as before my heart wasn't in it and I really didn't wanna reduce my dose, but this time it's different I'm just ready to live a life free of opiates. I'm 30 years old and I've spent a third of my life on opiates enough is enough.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Taper Therapy
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:02 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:59 pm
Posts: 993
Location: Carson City, Nevada
Jboss wrote:
Hey Sub,

This is probably one of the best taper programs you can get. It was created by a wonderful guy named Robert. He's on another forum I'm apart of and he made this taper therapy for people. I followed this for a long time going from about 4mg to .5mg. It worked for me and he's gotten hundreds of people safely down. Give it a shot. I'm also hoping that others may find this useful. It's typically pretty easy to taper when your at high doses. I remember not having trouble until I reached down to probably 1-2 mg a day. Even at 4 mg's a day I didn't have much trouble getting down to 2. Give it a shot once you get lower. For now, even cutting that dose in half shouldn't effect you much. If it does then go to 24mg or something. Do what works for you. This taper is more formulated for people at about 4mg but maybe it will help you out. Good Luck :)

"The standard taper I used and promote is that if you will reduce by 25% of the total daily dose and maintain that dose for a period of four full days while experiencing no w/d symptoms it’s safe to reduce again by another 25% and expect the same results. If you experience any w/d symptoms during the four day period you can take a .25 - .5mg sliver (depending on your existing dose) and the w/d symptoms usually dissipate immediately. If you require slivers to remain stable at any level you should start over the next day trying to put four days together again. "


Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with Robert_325. He's certainly a generous guy for putting so much time into helping other people get off Sub. HOWEVER, as far as I know he was only on Suboxone for a total of two months. He recommends the same taper schedule for people who have been on Suboxone a long time, as in years and years. I got discouraged over there because the general message was "I will help you when you are ready to do it this exact way. If you don't want to do it this exact way, then you aren't ready." A few other people on here have let me know they tried following his guidelines and it just didn't work for them. It may certainly be effective at high doses and for people on Sub short-term but I don't think it's reasonable or even necessarily wise to feel that you have to adhere to such a rigorous and strict program that worked for someone on Sub short-term. I know he has lots of success stories, but some of those 'success stories' have ended up over here feeling like they failed and looking for another way. I do not believe a 25% reduction rate is a good way to go for people on Sub for an extended period of time. I really believe the 10% guideline Dr. J. gives makes much more sense. The key is to really listen to your body, distinguish between real physical cravings and mental cravings, and don't beat yourself up if you just need a break! There's no absolute deadline. Take your time and take care of yourself.

And no offense, JBoss...it's not your plan. You are trying to help and I know Robert's plan does work for some people. I just think it's too extreme for the OP.

laddertipper

_________________
First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Day 4
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:35 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 28
So far day 4 is going well I'm still taking 4 mg's 3 times a day and I'm feeling great. No physical or physiological symptoms so far, so I'm gonna stay at 12 mg's for another week and then go down to 10 mg's. One day at a time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Taper Therapy
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:29 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:05 pm
Posts: 24
Hey Laddertipper,

You are absolutely right. I sorta came off being biased I think. The key thing, like you said, is to listen to your body. When you are ready, you will definitely know that it's time. I used Robert's taper as a basic guideline, something to lean on. This was the first "taper" I had ever heard about. This was probably back in early 09' when I found this. I may be over glorifying it a tad. My apologies. Regardless, a 10-25% reduction is a good estimation of where to start. You will know based on what your body tells you. I look at like this, usually 25% is a good deduction when you are at higher doses. Perhaps, once you get below say, 1-2mg mark, 10% may suite your body better. It's always up to the individual. I apologize again if I came off the way I did.

@SUB
Good for you! You are on your way down, down, down (in a good way, of course!) Be patient with yourself. Everything will fall into place and when it does you will feel relieved and refreshed! Keep us posted.

-Jboss


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Taper Therapy
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:07 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:59 pm
Posts: 993
Location: Carson City, Nevada
Jboss wrote:
Hey Laddertipper,

You are absolutely right. I sorta came off being biased I think. The key thing, like you said, is to listen to your body. When you are ready, you will definitely know that it's time. I used Robert's taper as a basic guideline, something to lean on. This was the first "taper" I had ever heard about. This was probably back in early 09' when I found this. I may be over glorifying it a tad. My apologies. Regardless, a 10-25% reduction is a good estimation of where to start. You will know based on what your body tells you. I look at like this, usually 25% is a good deduction when you are at higher doses. Perhaps, once you get below say, 1-2mg mark, 10% may suite your body better. It's always up to the individual. I apologize again if I came off the way I did.

@SUB
Good for you! You are on your way down, down, down (in a good way, of course!) Be patient with yourself. Everything will fall into place and when it does you will feel relieved and refreshed! Keep us posted.

-Jboss


Seriously, don't apologize, silly! You have nothing to apologize for. You're right on. 25% is quite possible at higher doses and then it gets too tough. It's also very tough to try dropping your dose by precisely 10%! Here's the honest to God truth. I have no trouble with the 25% method. I do have a little bit of a problem with the man who has made it so well-known over 'there'. During the time I spent over 'there', I found him to be a little....intolerant....inflexible...that sort of thing. He certainly has a LOT of faith in his method. :P

laddertipper

_________________
First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Day 9
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:07 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 28
So far everything is still going good, I've felt great and some of the days I've even forgotten to take my third dose. So in a few days I'll go down to 3 mg's 3x a day and see how that goes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:30 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:54 pm
Posts: 28
It's been 16 days and I've been taking only 8 mg's consistently for more than a week now. I had the goal of being at 10 mg's by may and so far I've beaten that goal. My wife bought me the kinect for xbox 360 and it can be quite a workout and has helped keep my mind off of the fact that I'm taking less SUB. Since I've reduced my dose and started exercising and being more active I def feel 10x better in the morning and throughout the whole day, and I've noticed that I can think a lot clearer and focus more without my head clouded with such a high dose of SUB, my interest in sex has returned and i'm a lot easier to be around. I as well as my wife and everybody else around me have noticed a huge difference in my personality, it's really scary when you realize just how much this drug changes who you are and how you act, I'm glad that I will be completely off of it soon and living my life as the real ME. I am in no way downing this drug at all it has saved my life without a doubt but I'm finally seeing all the differences that my wife saw in me and was telling me about for almost 4 years now.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
cron
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group