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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 pm 
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I have been tapering down from 8mg to 2mg now and I cant seem to get to 1mg. I don’t know if it is all in my head but I need to get off. Everything was fine for the first year I was on subs, I am now at 1 year and 6months and for the past 4 months I have been at 2mg, I take 1mg in the am and 1mg in the pm.

I have really struggled get to 1mg and cant, seem to get rid of my pm dose (which is not much of a pm dose it is more like a mid afternoon dose that I feel is a pick me up. I am a ½ a step away from really abusing subs and I don’t know why it doesn’t do much for me but the addict in me is holding on to that little part that does get something from the subs even if its all in my head.

If anyone could share ideas on the best way to get to 1mg I would be very thankful for them. I have thought maybe take a whole 2mg in the am and not take anything for the rest of the day. I have tried this before and I feel like I give myself these little panic attacks about how much I NEED that extra dose, sound familiar

I have taken of next Sunday, mon, tue and wed from work so that if reducing does have any affect I will at least be able to lie in bed for the majority of my day. I have three kids and a husband in law school @ night so there isn’t going to be any reduction in my evening activity/responsibility’s but I will get a pass for the day.

This was going to be a short post, didn’t seem to work out that way. If anyone has an ideas or suggestions I would appreciate it I am just scared and stressed and on the edge of a cliff that I feel like with one bad move I will fall off of.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:43 pm 
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What if you left your evening/afternoon dose alone and cut down on your morning dose? Also, some people take a lesser amount every other day and that helps them to get down in dosage.

I haven't tapered off yet, and frankly, probably won't, but this is just what I've learned over the past nearly 2 years.

One more thing, since you're so "attached" (for lack of a better word) to your sub, what will happen when you do stop it? Ideally a person should stop taking sub when they are ready, because there have been recent studies about how stopping sub maintenance invariably seems to lead to relapse. I hate to say this, but I fear since you're still reaching for something when you feel bad that when you don't have sub you'll reach for something worse. If you're determined to get off it, get yourself to a place where you have healthy coping skills and don't reach for ANY pill when things go wrong or normal anxiety creeps in.

I'm sorry if this comes off harsh, I just wanted to give you my honest opinion.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:49 pm 
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Hamaker has given you some good advice. Dropping from 2mgs to 1mg is a significant reduction - you will feel the effects of that drop a lot more than say dropping from 6mgs to 4mgs, because at these lower doses your opiate receptors are not going to be fully occupied; this causes cravings to come back and withdrawal symptoms to be more pronounced.

Have you tried going from 2mgs to 1.5mgs instead? You could take the 0.5 in the morning and the 1mg in the afternoon/evening. Or you could take 0.75mgs in the am and 0.75 in the pm. That way you are only shaving 0.25mgs off of each of your normal doses, which might be more tolerable. You could make up a liquid solution to do this - the instructions are in the Liquid Taper thread, which is a sticky at the top of the Stopping Suboxone section of the forum.

As you're getting into the lower end of your taper it is important to be patient and to listen to the signals your body and brain are sending. If you go too fast, all you end up doing is setting yourself back. I know that at 2mg it looks like the end is in sight and that can make a person impatient and just want to be done with it. But you've already invested a lot of time into your recovery, and I'm sure you don't want to throw that away. If you are having urges to abuse your medication, that might be a sign that you need to back off a bit and figure out what's going on.

Taking a few more months to taper properly, giving your brain time to adjust and giving yourself time to develop and practice new ways of dealing with those cravings and withdrawal symptoms is really not that much time in the grand scheme of things. You can use that time to get really healthy physically and to make sure that you have an aftercare plan for how you will deal with life without drugs and without Suboxone. Focusing on adding those positive things to your life also takes a lot of the focus off of the taper and makes the tapering go easier.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:56 pm 
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thank you for the reply and advice, not to worry you do not sound harsh at all. I personally would stay on subs forever if I could my dr doesn't agree with the 4ever plan. I still want to cope with stress by taking something, I don't know that it will ever change either. I just try and remember what it was like when my life was revolving around a pill and I know that I can’t do that again. A part of me agrees that I should stay on subs because I feel like I need them but a part of me feels like I will always feel like I need something and that is the very reason I need to show myself that I can go through every day without something.

On a side note, my dr says I will feel NOTHING and there will be NO withdrawals coming off the subs. He also believes that I can jump at 1mg and doesn’t see the point of attempting to go any lower.

My plan was to get to 1mg a day and then do the liquid method to go as far down as possible. Are there rx's that I should ask my dr for to help with withdrawals and do most dr's give them out? my sub dr. is a physiatrist and really against rx for sub patients. I could ask my general dr instead though, anyone have an idea about this


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:00 pm 
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Hi - I don't know if you saw my post above, it looks like we posted right around the same time.

Anyway, there have been people who have quit Sub at a dose like 1mg with little to no withdrawals, but I think they are the exception rather than the rule. I had to taper down to 0.2mgs and I still had some mild withdrawals.

The comfort meds that helped me were clonidine, which is a blood pressure medication that helps a lot with some of the physical w/d symptoms, and then ambien for insomnia, which I only took a few times and then I didn't need it any more.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:03 pm 
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I tried to tell my dr that I was having cravings at 2mg and I wasn’t sure if it was working for me, blah, blah. He says well looks like you need to hurry and taper then, so I know my time left on subs is limited. I hate that every month I have to be so nervous when I walk in his door that he will tell me no more you are done. Thanks again for the advice; I think I will look into the liquid method. I will definitely check in soon. Thanks again for the advice it really does help.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:14 pm 
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luvmy3 wrote:
I tried to tell my dr that I was having cravings at 2mg and I wasn’t sure if it was working for me, blah, blah. He says well looks like you need to hurry and taper then, so I know my time left on subs is limited. I hate that every month I have to be so nervous when I walk in his door that he will tell me no more you are done. Thanks again for the advice; I think I will look into the liquid method. I will definitely check in soon. Thanks again for the advice it really does help.


Sheesh :roll: What is wrong with these doctors? This guy sounds like a quack, to be blunt. What a way to treat patients! You need to hurry and taper then? His compassion is overwhelming :roll:

What I would suggest, frankly, is to find a new doctor that's willing to work with you.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:14 pm 
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Hello Lovemy3,

I don't have anything to offer as far as the taper because i'm no where near that yet. Although I would like to wish you the best of luck :) I am so sorry your Dr. is being an idiot, that really suck. I agree with the other that there shouldn't be a time limit on tapers it should be left up to when the patiant is ready. Have you looked into other Dr.'s? I might be an idea, there a tab on the top of the page to help with that {phsysian locater} i think its called. There is also the www.heretohelp.com and I used them and they where very helpful.

Please let us know how things are going, and good luck :)


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 Post subject: I,m sorry .....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:15 pm 
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I,m sorry you have a Dr. that dosent have a clue about Suboxone... Junkie is right, maybe its time to find a new Dr. When I was at 2mg I spent 3 months tapering to 1.5mg then spent 3 months before going to 1mg, I,ve been at 1mg for 28 days now and my not taper again, I HATE the no energy, depressed feeling, I have finally learned there is no drug out there that takes the place of what opiates did for us , except for Suboxone , when I whine to my Dr about feeling like shit and tired with no energy his answer to me is to up my Suboxone, no other drug works ( I'm sticking at 1mg ), he even told me some people can't get off Suboxone without always feeling a little bad... I refuse to feel even a little bad.. Maybe in a few months I might feel different about tapering, but first I want to stabilize on 1mg, mornings are so tough, Mike


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:27 pm 
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Hi! I didn't read all the other responses in depth but what I did read I agree with. I just wanted to add (in agreement with the others) that I don't think any of this is "in your head" and I am sorry that it seems your doctor is PUTTING THAT idea in your head. You said that BECAUSE you want to take something to cope that this is all the more reason for you to prove to yourself you CAN do it without. While I completely relate to this feeling you have, I also think it is false thinking. If addiction was about will power we would all be opitate free entirely. Will may have nothing to do with it. WANT has little to do with it. And I know many roll their eyes at the comparison I will use but you can't WILL or WANT away any disease. It's like someone telling themselves they need to prove they can WILL or WANT away their type I diabetes without using insulin. If a type I diabetic told you they always felt they needed insulin when they near a diabetic coma and for that very reason need to prove they can be healthy without insulin, you would think they were being way too hard on themselves and having way too high of expectations. You might think they were crazy given the potential consequences of not using their insulin. (I'm not trying to say you are crazy by any means).

You aren't having this experience because you are weak minded, or because you have character flaws that exceed those of non-addicts. You have a disease. Some people are able to become opiate free or drug free over time. Most are not. That is by far the exception. You also said you were concerned you were about to "abuse" the sub, but from the rest of your post, it sounds more like you are about ready to use the suboxone for the exact reason it is prescribed, which is to alleviate cravings and withdrawal symptoms associated with opioid dependence. You may not have been about to take it AS prescribed, but that is because it is being prescribed improperly, not because you are an addict who has character flaws.

I am focused on this particular aspect of your post because I remember feeling like this when I went off suboxone. I actually felt like this the whole time I was on suboxone for the first two years. Every time I didn't want to taper or had a hard time with it I would tell myself I was lazy, wreckless, irresponsible, selfish, sneaky, etc. I felt like I was letting myself down and my husband down. I felt like my life revolved around this little pill. I hated it and resented it. It wasn't until I quit and went through withdrawal and found this site and started reading and absorbing the various opinions and experiences that I realized I was thinking of this all wrong. It was like I was missing the point of being "powerless over my addiction" as I kept TRYING to have power over it and will it away and will myself better. Every time I failed I just became more obsessed with how I was going to figure this out. I can't count the endless conversations I had in my mind about this subject. Ultimately, it was MY THINKING that made me feel like a slave to this addiction. Not my suboxone.

Once I realized and accepted that I am an addict. That this is a disease I have no control over and cannot wish or will away. Once I stopped accepting personal responsibility for it and stopped beating myself up for this condition that was NOT in my control and was NOT and is NOT my fault, it became much easier to just accept the suboxone. I stopped stressing about every feeling and anxiety. I learned how to manage those better because I DO have control over that. I also have control over whether or not my disease remains in remission and over which risks I choose to take. I chose to go back on suboxone (for many reasons) but this time I don't feel like a slave to it. I feel very free in fact. I try to stay away from thoughts about whether or not my life would be better if I wasn't on it and whether or not I feel "natural" when I am on it. I just let go and said "Well, this is my life whether I like it or not. I can choose to dwell on its imperfections or I can learn to enjoy my life and appreciate it for what it is. For the many gifts I HAVE been given and have been blessed with. I can accept that being on suboxone may not be a PERFECT life, but it is a life worth living and I am ALIVE. I don't have to worry if my addiction is going to kill me today or this month, or this year because as long as I take my pill every day it will not and that is an okay life to me".

I am not saying that you have to think the way I think or that you should think this way. If you want to get off suboxone I support you in your endeavor. I just wanted to share my experience and a different way of looking at things is all. We are all different and we all have to choose our own path.

Best wishes!

Cherie

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:10 am 
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Thank you so much for all of the advice from all, it has really helped put me in a great place these last few days. I am setting some realistic goals and hoping my dr will support me. I will check back in and let everyone know how it is working out. Thank you again! :D


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