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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:38 pm 
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so about 1.5 years into my recovery, our dr. passed away suddenly. dr. c had been treating my fiance and his family for nearly their whole lives. i came to dr.c thru my fiance. we both had a pretty close relationship with him. we both felt that he played a role in our meeting, and most definitely played a role in saving our lives. we had our next appointment on monday, he passed on sunday night. so we needed to get to a new dr. quick. we live in a pretty rural area, so there aren't many dr.s available, and even less who have space in their programs. we got the name of a new guy that would see us, and went right away. so i get in the room, and right off the jump this guy is telling me about how he started and ran some rehab program in palm beach (FL), how he graduated from harvard, treated rock stars, and is great friends with the DEA. i'm just nodding along, like okay, great, good for you. then he gets to asking me about my meds. i run through the list, and he interrupts me to ask me my why i'm on subutex. i explain to him why, and he says "not in my program." that he's been seeing dr. c's patients all day long, and that guy did not know what he was doing. that i'll go back on suboxone, and he'll write me an rx for the daily vomitting, but it's gonna cost me. [as if it doesn't cost enough as it is...i'm self-pay] by this point, i'm extremely upset. i looked at him and told him that my dr. had just died, and i did not appreciate his tone and what he was saying. he says that he's just setting up his boundaries with me. i said that's fine, but you don't need to speak to me that way. then he gets super puffed up, and opens the door and says that he does not want me to be in his program. i said fine, great, cuz i don't want to be in your phucking program anyway and i left. as i walked down the hall, i passed a nurses' station where he was standing, and i stopped and let him know that i am aware that i am an addict, i deal with that fact every single day. but that does not give him the right to treat me as though i am a dog on the street. and i left, sobbing.

now there are obviously a lot of things this guy did that were just wrong. first, the bragging. if you are such a big-time-hot-sh!t with a harvard degree, what are you doing working in this arm-pit town?? [it's a town near ours, inland, and it IS an arm-pit]

the DEA thing- he talked about how he was the best of friends with the DEA, how he helped get people busted, on and on. he meant that to be threatening. i told him that i had no problems with that at all, that i'm straight and HAVE been straight, for over a year.

the dr. comments- he said that what our dr. had been doing was illegal and wrong and that he was under investigation. this simply isn't true. the man just died. and you're going to talk trash about him?? just because your patients wouldn't shed a tear over YOUR death, that doesn't mean we shouldn't cry for losing dr. c.

it was just a really bad experience. we were both still in shock and the wound was so raw. we cared about dr. c more than patients probably should. he saved both of our lives.

so after i pulled myself back together, we found another dr. but not before we called first and got some information about the program and the dr! it was pretty tough for me to even go see another dr after that. i really just wanted to quit cold turkey and not take the sub anymore. i didn't like that feeling of vulnerability, nor the dependence on the sub. but in the end i decided cold turkey would probably not be the best thing to do.

the new guy is a joy. and he always sees both of us at the same time, so i'm never in the room alone. so to anyone who is dealing with a jerk of a dr., please don't give up!! and know that if for whatever reason your dr. isn't working for you 100%, it's okay for you to find another one. it's okay for you to be choosy!! cuz after all, it's YOUR recovery.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:50 pm 
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i know, as if my first post wasn't long enough, LOL!

i'm not sure exactly where to put this, but it's related.

the rehab, dr. c and our drug counselor had been telling us all along that we would probably need to be on the sub for the rest of our lives. i had asked about tapering several times, and each time i had been told not to worry about that. so that was another jarring thing from the new jerk-guy, that i had been on sub for wwwaaayyy too long, that was the first i'd heard of it!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:03 pm 
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Thanks for sharing your story. It is important to hear and let others see.We often get treated poorly because of the circumstances as to why we are seeking Subxone treatment, and that is really cruel and unfair- BUT it is reality. Not all physicians have our best interest in mind. They act like just because they took an eight hour Buprenorphine class that they know everything about the drug and how it works. NOT TRUE! You would not believe some of the assanine things I have heard from doctors about Suboxone.
Anyway, glad to hear you found a better fit, and you are right- if you are not satisfied with your current doctor- keep looking! NOBODY deserves second rate recovery treatment!
Recovery Bill of Rights
Print this out and put it somewhere you can view it often, it is very important!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:31 pm 
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thanks for the bill of rights link you sent. and i will print that too. maybe i should mail it to the other guy...


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:03 pm 
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I'm so glad you stuck with your search for a good doctor. As addicts we internalize so much shame and stigma that when someone is an a-hole to us we start to feel like it's because there is something bad about us. Those feelings can make us want to do something self-destructive (like use or quit treatment), so you should be proud that you worked thru that.

And bravo for telling him he was being a douche instead of just taking it quietly.

I have had bad doctors for other things, so I know it's not just the ones who treat addiction, but it seems like they are the worst of the worst. How do they possibly think they are helping anyone by acting like that?

I recommend giving this doc a bad review on Yelp or whatever review site you want. I definitely search for reviews of docs before I go to them now, so maybe you'll save someone else some grief.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:56 pm 
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Holy crap what a clown. Does he not realize the naloxone in Suboxone literally does nothing other than making politicians feel better about allowing doctors to prescribe an opiate to opiate addicts. Bupe is just a terrible drug to try and abuse. As funny as the drug scheduling system is (lsd a schedule I? seriously?) there was a reason buprenorphine used to be a schedule V! That is before Suboxone came out.... Sure you could shoot a Subutex (just like you can shoot a Suboxone) but what the hell is the point? It's not going to make you feel high, especially if you've been on Sub for more than a day or two and even just speaking from my own experience and the fact that at the time of my induction I had been completely clean of all opiates for over 4 months (I was getting monthly naltrexone shots so I wasn't cheating) and I didn't feel high at all. The only thing I felt was an absence of P.A.W.S. and it was wonderful :) I felt like a human being again, not a high human being just how I thought I remembered feeling before I started abusing opiates in the first place. Even someone who's opiate naive that might be interested in shooting a Subutex or Suboxone could do so but then they're done! No getting high for days! I personally after giving it a great deal of thought think having lots of Suboxone/Subutex floating around out on our streets is such an improvement over other abusable and dangerous opiates that would be floating around if more addicts were left untreated it could even protect the idiot who's buying it off the street from O.D. ing for a couple days! Unless that doctor had some very strong evidence that you were selling your Subutex he should have just continued rxing it to you in my opinion it just doesn't make sense to me to have someone take 2 medications (that cost a great deal of money mind you) when you could be just taking 1! I think you're so much better off with a different doctor good for you!

On a personal note I'm not a big fan of the DEA or anyone that's close with them.... Anyone else still think they're going to eliminate the drug problem? Anywho just my 2 cents

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:19 pm 
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Diary of a Quitter wrote:
I'm so glad you stuck with your search for a good doctor. As addicts we internalize so much shame and stigma that when someone is an a-hole to us we start to feel like it's because there is something bad about us. Those feelings can make us want to do something self-destructive (like use or quit treatment), so you should be proud that you worked thru that.

And bravo for telling him he was being a douche instead of just taking it quietly.

I have had bad doctors for other things, so I know it's not just the ones who treat addiction, but it seems like they are the worst of the worst. How do they possibly think they are helping anyone by acting like that?

I recommend giving this doc a bad review on Yelp or whatever review site you want. I definitely search for reviews of docs before I go to them now, so maybe you'll save someone else some grief.


hi quitter. (if you prefer to be called diary, let me know) thank you for your reply, cuz i hadn't ever thought of it that way before, but you are darn right...as an addict, i do live with the guilt and the shame of it. at the time this all happened, i was really pissed off that he would go so far to put someone down. i felt like i had a big target on me, and he was just blasting off all of his own frustrations onto me. and if i had been super early in my recovery, i might have just sat there and took it. but for whatever reason, i just couldn't allow someone to talk to me that way. i think it was because i felt i had done a whole lotta work in my life, i had made a whole lotta positive changes in my life, the kind that this guy obviously would know nothing about.

and as for getting me past that and through that, my fiance played a huge role in that! he's pretty great that way.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:44 pm 
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Matt2 wrote:
Holy crap what a clown. Does he not realize the naloxone in Suboxone literally does nothing other than making politicians feel better about allowing doctors to prescribe an opiate to opiate addicts. Bupe is just a terrible drug to try and abuse. As funny as the drug scheduling system is (lsd a schedule I? seriously?) there was a reason buprenorphine used to be a schedule V! That is before Suboxone came out.... Sure you could shoot a Subutex (just like you can shoot a Suboxone) but what the hell is the point? It's not going to make you feel high, especially if you've been on Sub for more than a day or two and even just speaking from my own experience and the fact that at the time of my induction I had been completely clean of all opiates for over 4 months (I was getting monthly naltrexone shots so I wasn't cheating) and I didn't feel high at all. The only thing I felt was an absence of P.A.W.S. and it was wonderful :) I felt like a human being again, not a high human being just how I thought I remembered feeling before I started abusing opiates in the first place. Even someone who's opiate naive that might be interested in shooting a Subutex or Suboxone could do so but then they're done! No getting high for days! I personally after giving it a great deal of thought think having lots of Suboxone/Subutex floating around out on our streets is such an improvement over other abusable and dangerous opiates that would be floating around if more addicts were left untreated it could even protect the idiot who's buying it off the street from O.D. ing for a couple days! Unless that doctor had some very strong evidence that you were selling your Subutex he should have just continued rxing it to you in my opinion it just doesn't make sense to me to have someone take 2 medications (that cost a great deal of money mind you) when you could be just taking 1! I think you're so much better off with a different doctor good for you!

On a personal note I'm not a big fan of the DEA or anyone that's close with them.... Anyone else still think they're going to eliminate the drug problem? Anywho just my 2 cents


wow, matt, thank you!

so fast forward a couple of months, we're at our new dr.s' office, we submit urines monthly, and we notice that today he has two little plastic tester things for each of us. being the nosy guy my fiance is, he asks him what the new one is for. he said that he caught several people selling their meds and kicked 'em all out of the program, 20 spaces opened up! turns out there is a real simple way to find out if you've been selling your meds, test for bupe!! now i can't say if what the dr. said is true, but he said that because of the half-life length that if you just took it for the urine test, and hadn't been taking it like you're supposed to, then you would fail the test. as for the validity of this statement, it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other, because i'm in recovery, not active addiction, so i don't need to know the intimate details of this test i.e. how to get around it. he did tell us another entertaining story...guy comes in to room with a can of soda but never takes a sip of it. dr. notices this. dr. sends guy to get his urine. dr. tests the urine, but suspects it's not his urine, so he says...good news and bad news--"you're pregnant" and don't come back to see me anymore. guy's jaw drops to the floor and he leaves, never to return. but the funniest part of this story is that he was bluffing...he didn't test the urine for pregnancy, he just suspected it wasn't the guys pee. so i wouldn't be all that surprised to hear that he was bluffing us on the bupe test!

but did it ever just chap my hide a little bit to find out that there was such a simple way to find out whether or not i'm telling the truth!!

man, but could you imagine if suboxone was handed out like methadone?!? we might could actually finally do what methadone has failed to do! we might have a whole bunch of people transforming into "normies" and re-entering society, holding down jobs, paying taxes....but then beckitt-renkeiser would go broke, and we can't have that.

sorry, i'm not trying to say anything bad about methadone, i was only using it as an example.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:52 pm 
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There is actually a way for docs to check and see if your actually taking your Sub my doc tests me for both illicit drugs and also tests to make sure I have bupe in my system. On another note I think it's important to realize the reason methadone has failed to help more addicts is because of the ridiculous restrictions put on clinics. Many towns won't allow clinics to go up due to their own ignorant and unrealistic fears. Before Suboxone, methadone was the only real chance that the vast majority of opiate addicts had at getting back into a normal life, holding down a job, paying taxes, and most importantly: staying alive. I don't think you meant what you said as some kind of insult or anything but I do think it's important to realize how wonderful it is now that opiate addicts have more than one choice. If someone chooses methadone maintenance and can deal with the insane restrictions (daily dosings, mandatory counseling, knowing that the lawmakers making the decisions on how the program should be run have no working knowledge of what they're voting for, and perpetually changing rules) then that's great! If someone chooses Sub maintenance great! If someone chooses abstinence based recovery and is staying clean wonderful! At the end of the day it's all about staying alive to me, I don't know about you guys but I've already seen too many addicts die and I live in a pretty small town :cry:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:50 pm 
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i'm so glad now that my current dr. does use the bupe test, as well as the drug test. it keeps me accountable, and i love it! i also love the fact that i have a record to back up what i say. this is especially helpful with the custody case with my kids.

yes, i meant no harm by referring to methadone. it's been quite refreshing to have a forum like this that isn't all about debating which way is right, or people trying to make you feel bad because of your choices. in keeping with that, i just wanted to make it clear that i wasn't knocking methadone. personally, i'm like you matt. whatever works is what's best! i do agree with you also on having more than one option.

what i was imagining is what would happen if you took all the methadone clinics and instead of handing out methadone, you handed out suboxone, at the same price as methadone...hmmm.


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