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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:22 am 
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This is an intro and a quit story in one.
I was prescribed Norco 10-325 for knee and back pain in 2004. Let me say that I liked myself before this. I had a good life. I was not unhappy in the least. This damned thing snuck up on me and put a noose around my neck. It got to the point that my preferred dose was about 40 a day. I could survive on 20. I have used alot of drugs recreationaly over the years and never got snared like this. In the early 90s I was slinging felony levels of coke. Walked away without a problem. These opiates are the devil.
On to my Sub story. I should mention that I moved across the country 3 mos. into my Sub treatment.
The Dr. I had lined up after the move decided to retire a week before my apt. Fortunately my old doc. called in 3 refills for me so I could locate a doc. here. Couldn't find one...I'm going to wander a bit here
Let me say that most Doctors don't know squat about this drug.
I have had three Doctors in the last year and a half and not one of them knows much about this drug. One said that after I moved I should be fine to jump off of 4 mg. I tapered down to less than that and it was hell. Day four came and I would have done anything to make the withdrawals stop.
Fortunately at about day six a nice tele-medicine psych dude called me and for cash he could help me. He told me that he had been involved with Sub since it came out. I thought cool he knows how this works. Yeah. Not so much.
He prescribed 8 mgs. a day and wanted me to taper from there. I have a wife who has blown out both knees playing voleyball and I said look 8 a day barely keeps the cravings away. There is a nice pretty bottle around here somewhere with nice yellow norcs in it. His response call your sponsor, call someone. I live in bfe as far as Sub docs and NA. Really. There's nothing. I'm still waiting on the NA guy to call back. Fortunately I do have a good church and good friends there.
Found a new doc thanks to Rule here. He was only two hours away one way. I saw him for four or five months. I was on 16 mgs. a day. Then one day I get a bill in the mail. Insurance didn't cover the dr. which we didn't realize until we received a $700+ bill. Every time I went in and paid my twenty dollar co pay so it appeared everything was fine. Not. So back to the tele med guy. He wasn't really interested in where I'd been. He was more interested in me getting off Sub and getting his fee.
I was back with him for two months and I was getting cut down to 4 mg. I should mention this is after being on 16 with my old doc. Needless to say four wasn't doing it so what do I do. Take more. So now I have to call and pay and beg to get more. Of course insurance won't pay because I took more than prescribed. I tried to tell the doc the purpose behind sub was to keep the cravings away. His response. You have to learn to deal with them. Hmmm. Not quite ready yet doc.
Any way after a couple of months of that I decided it was time to be done. I was sick of it. It was as bad as being on Norc. Every time I was close to running out I'd get the same anxiety I'd get when I'd run out of norco.
Finally I was leading a men's study and the topic was idols in our heart. I won't go into the Bible versus etc... God said "that's you" and I was like no. I'm leading this group I don't have any idols. He said really? What about sub? You think of that more than me when you are getting close to being out. Hmm slap me on the foot and call me guilty. CRAP.
So I took about a week and tapered down to a nibble of a strip. After that I went on ten norcs for two days for a total of 20. I still felt the sub withdrawal with ten norco a day. Sub is a VERY strong drug. I then went to five for one day, four for one day, three for one day, two for one day, one for two days feeling some withdrawal the whole time.
Finally I woke up and there was nothing to take. WOW. How odd.
In the end I went through about nine days of mild withdrawal with the norco. My plan was to kick the sub out. It worked. After that I went through about four days of withdrawal from the norco. The withdrawal was not as bad as I've had in the past it wasn't great either. I did get the stuff from the Thomas recipe. I continued to eat and take supplements. I drank a ton of Powerade and Gatorade. I rode my bike every day. I believe all of that helped. I have been off everything for a month. The only symptom left is lack of sleep. I'll sleep an hour or two one night, three the next, maybe get six the next and start back over at one or two hours. My mind is back to what I consider normal. My body is great. Emotions are back. That is another reason I wanted off. For 8 years there was no joy, no sorrow, nothing. All in all I feel great. I know the sleep will come back.
I credit God with the healing of my mind, body, and emotions. He saw me through the withdrawals and He has taken all desire for opiates out of me. He will never ask us to do something without giving us strength to do it. I prayed a lot. I still do.
That is my condensed story. I don't necessarily recommend someone go back on their drug of choice to get off of sub but there was no way I was going to go through two+ months of withdrawal. My wife is also an RN and she policed me in this. Sorry this was so long. For those who haven't tried I say give God a chance. He can help you through this if it's what you really desire.
On the eleventh day I had a double root canal. The dentist prescribed vikes. I never took any for pain. I gave the bottle to my wife to hold on to in case I needed some. I did break down and take one one night because I hadn't slept in a week. It didn't work. I was up all night LOL. No more vikes.
Peace


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:41 am 
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mystory wrote:
I credit God with the healing of my mind, body, and emotions. He saw me through the withdrawals and He has taken all desire for opiates out of me. He will never ask us to do something without giving us strength to do it. I prayed a lot. I still do.

Peace



Hello Mystory and welcome to the forum...Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. I had recently done the same thing and it isn't easy. So, again, thank you. I quoted that line above because it really stuck out to me. I am in no way a "bible thumper" as some people like to refer to religous folks. I do however, have a very healthy realationship with God. I was very happy to see that you include him in your life as well as your recovery. I think that maybe some people are afraid of the reprecussions of doing that. I was. But I cannot tell you how many times I hit my knees durng my addiction and even moreso during my recovery. I still do. And I believe with all of my heart that there is an advantage to having Him in my life. Not all feel this way, but I do.

Congratulations also on being able to kick sub with such determination. You had quite a habit, like most of us, and to use your original DOC to assist you in withdrawaling was a risky thing to do. I say, whatever works. I am so glad to hear that it all worked out in your favor. Hey, and Kudos to you for handing over that bottle of vikes to the wife!!!! I can only imagine that there was a little temptation there. Maybe not for you, but I think maybe at this time there would be for me. Anyway, congratulations again and WELCOME to the forum!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:47 am 
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I really believe that you are destined to relapse without God. I've known many people in different programs and the ones without God seemed to have more trouble. It is much easier when your Dad is for you in all you do.


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 Post subject: No you wont!!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:00 pm 
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You are not going to get flamed for having a religous preference. And if you do, that sucks. I agree wholeheartedly with everything that you just said. I am a christian and I am not ashamed of that. Nor should I be. I would not be where I am today without God in my life. None of us would be. That is my belief. I need Him on a daily basis for my recovery. I pray every single night and several times throughout the day. When I'm driving, just thinking, shopping, etc...Something comes into my mind and I pray. It's not a typical "prayer" like "Dear God, please......" It's more like I just talk to Him. He knows my every thought anyway.

Don't sweat it. I don't push my beliefs on anyone and don't expect theirs to be pushed on me. You are allowed to speak your mind and beliefs here as long as its respectful and you aren't bashing anyone!

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 Post subject: 'Bout Time
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:30 pm 
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Good to see ya back buddy and Thanks for posting your story. I've witnessed your struggle and now have to pat you on the back for doing what you set out to do. Dang, I didn't know your insurance wouldn't pay. What was it, because it was out of state?

A month is a very long time and you're right, sleep will improve slowly but surely. My older brother is just about where you are right now and still only gets maybe 2-3 hours a night. His therapist said it could take almost a year before the body gets all straightened out. For right now he said he feels pretty good, like you. Just tired all the time.

And hey, don't fret about bringing your faith in here. Just like goinstrong said, as long as there isn't bashing of others we don't really care what works for everyone. The important thing is you are clean and sober and are doing great.

Nice to have you back. Please feel free to post more often dude.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:03 pm 
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mystory wrote:
I really believe that you are destined to relapse without God. I've known many people in different programs and the ones without God seemed to have more trouble. It is much easier when your Dad is for you in all you do.


Yeah, that's an inappropriate statement and it's really based on nothing. It's one thing to say that you feel YOU would be destined to relapse without God- in that case I'd encourage you to run, not walk, run to God- whatever it takes. But to say someone else is destined to relapse because they choose not to be religious is inappropriate & borderline offensive.

Hey, that's just my take on it- not interested in a debate because what's the point? I'm glad you're doing better & don't worry, the sleep will get easier.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:29 pm 
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Hey mystory,

Congratulations on getting off Suboxone!! I know what an arduous task that can be, but you did it!!

I'm glad you told us your story of how God helped you in your life too, that's quite inspiring.

When I quit Suboxone, my wd was pretty harsh. I was convinced that God had left me, but I couldn't figure out why. A few months later, it finally dawned on me.....I had got myself into such bad shape during my addiction that God knew the only way for Him and I to straighten me out was to break me completely first. By not feeling His presence and going through opiate wd at the same time, it broke me hard. But, it's the best thing that could have ever happened to me because since then, God and I have been working on building a better me. It's a work in progress, that's for sure, but I'm so glad everything happened the way it did so I could be where I am today.

BTW, I went through the same thing with craptacular sleep. Just like you, I would get 2 hours one night, 5 hours another night, then BAM, back to almost zero.....it was nuts. It will get better as time goes by.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:56 am 
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nogroovin wrote:
mystory wrote:
I really believe that you are destined to relapse without God. I've known many people in different programs and the ones without God seemed to have more trouble. It is much easier when your Dad is for you in all you do.


Yeah, that's an inappropriate statement and it's really based on nothing. It's one thing to say that you feel YOU would be destined to relapse without God- in that case I'd encourage you to run, not walk, run to God- whatever it takes. But to say someone else is destined to relapse because they choose not to be religious is inappropriate & borderline offensive.

Hey, that's just my take on it- not interested in a debate because what's the point? I'm glad you're doing better & don't worry, the sleep will get easier.


Thanks for saying that, nogroovin', because these are my thoughts exactly. And yes, it's borderline offensive.

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 Post subject: belief
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:18 pm 
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I said that is what I believe and what I've seen. I did not say it was fact.
Romeo, God let me walk through the wd this time. I believe it is as you said. I got myself into this mess and I need to feel at least some of the pain so I don't go back. As of today I have no desire for narcotics.
When I was younger alot of my friends were in AA or NA and I do not have any problems with those programs. I believe they help alot of people.
Here's where I will go off the deep end a little bit.
I also believe that God wants us free. I do not consider myself an addict. I was dependant on narcotics. I am now free. God set me free. My mind, body, and emotions are fine except for sleep. There are no ups and downs. I am mentally stable.
I do not hang onto bitterness, unforgiveness, hate, or anger. Those things will kill you. They will also hinder anything you are doing in your life. I also have the gift of Faith. Fear=lack of faith.
I've seen God heal people that can't walk. Why would He not want us healed? By healed I do not mean calling myself an addict and going to meetings everyday. I realize this will not work for everybody. If meetings are working for you I'm happy for you.
I'm saying that my higher power whom I choose to call God has called me to be healed and free. I do not dwell on the past. It doesn't help me. I watch my words. If I claim I am an addict, sick, or whatever everyday how can God set me free. My confession over rules Him and His power.
I'll get off my soap box.
This is what works for me. Feel free to message me if you would like to know more.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:41 pm 
yo man . i loved your post. From the heart and reals. I agree wit u GOINSTRONGG. If he gets flamed for his post, that plain SUCKS!! Here's a man who is doin what hes doin to survive and do what he thinks right in his heart.Good for you man. Someone up there said that shit was fuckin inappropriate and offensive or some shit?! Whaaaat?! Let me gets this straight so dudes says you may relapse if you dont have god in your life. or fuck it, just plain old something to believe in. like somethin bigger than yous. and you get offended by that?! haha that shits for babies yo. I been doin mad readin on this site and some ninga said yo we destined to fail like almost 100 percent. and i knows this aint true. How you gonna hear some motha fucka sayin we all hopeless and fucked cuz we all gonna relapse no matta what cuz some invinsable study says everybody destined to fail. Yo and my mans over here just sayin a little faith in somethin aint gonna hurt. Know what? He right.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:09 pm 
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This really isn't that hard. Saying you feel you've been able to have an easier initial jump from subs because you found god is great. Inspirational even. I applaud you for that. I'm glad you shared that and I'm rooting for you. But to turn around and try to say people that choose not to involve religion are destined for relapse is borderline offensive. I'm not offended by it because - well, it's the Internet & I'd never let anything a stranger on a talk forum said offend me, but I can see how it would offend someone. You can too because you even said you were gonna get flamed for it- which you didn't by the way.

Anyway, if turning to God helps you, I say go for it. And feel free to tell everyone all about it. I cant imagine anyone would be offended by that and if they are that's too bad. Just try to avoid telling people that if they don't do it your way they're destined to fail- unless of course you want to offend some people- which is fine too. Lol. ;-)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:20 pm 
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Hey mystory,

I hear ya man, I liked reading your point of view on what God did for you. It gave me lots to think about.

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 Post subject: Two months
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:08 pm 
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I'm right around two months without anything now. Still going strong. It's amazing all the stuff Sub blocks out.
Feels good to be sneezing, yawning, stretching, and smiling again!

Peace


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 Post subject: Hey, me too!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Congrats Mystory on the 2 months!!!!

I am also right at 2 months off Subs, last dose was 7/4/12. And I can also say it feels good to smile, laugh, cry, all without the haze of Subs.

Keep on keeping on!!! :)
C


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