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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:40 am 
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I'm just going to put this out there because I received a PM about it. This is only my opinion based on experience and I do think what others have posted is consistent with this. I do NOT think that it will really matter how LONG you are off the suboxone because I don't think you will get the pain relief from the Norco's anyways. It isn't enough after being on sub. I say that because even after 2+ months off subs I had to take twice the normal oxycodone for pain relief from surgery. And like someone else reported, I never did get that "feeling" from them even after 2 months of being off sub. Tolerance takes a LONG time to change. Even though sub didn't get me "high" it was still clearly doing something at 12mg which prevented typical opiates from being very effective.

With that being said, I did have a 280mg oxycontin habit daily and back then, I could have taken 3 oxycodone's and gotten nothing from them. I used to pop 6 vic at a time and feel nothing. At least coming off sub, within 2 weeks 2 vicodin would keep WD at bay. So my tolerance decreased over time and continued to decrease. It is a very SLOW process.

Joseph, I think you will probably have to get something stronger unforunately. Even with that, you aren't likely to get that "feeling" but you are likely to get pain control. I liked that I didn't get that "feeling" because I am no longer in love with pain killers.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:28 am 
I have to second what Lisa and Cherie said. I was off Sub for 2 weeks after my accident and percs & vicodin never really worked - so it's not just a matter of the Sub getting out of your system. Your tolerence will be high for a long time. I'm glad you guys mentionned "that feeling". Sometimes it's hard for us to judge our own pain level without bias. I never got "that feeling" so maybe that contributed to my assessment that it "wasn't working". Dr. J addressed this in his e-book. Like others have said, with a high enough dose you may get pain relief - but don't wait for "that feeling" because you won't get it.
Hope you feel better.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:14 pm 
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I just wanted to let you know the information I gave you comes from The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Administration's guideline text. It is worth it to at least check into the links I posted, they contain very helpful information.

In my personal experience, I can tell you that once I was on Subs for a while and had to use vikes for surgery. they did not work. I waited over a week after stopping sub to start the vicodin and still received no relief. Luckily the surgery was not too painful and I could handle the pain pretty well. I think by that point, the sub had saturated my brain so much that it would have been allot longer before anything else would have worked. In a way, I guess it could be seen as a blessing in disguise.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:16 am 
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Thanks to everyone for all the info. you have submitted to this post. Unfortunately you all have been correct and I have not received any relief what so ever from the norcos. Tomorrow I have an appointment with a different pain management Dr. than I have ever used before and I am not sure what to do because of the fact I am in so much pain and for the reason I do not know where this Dr. stands in terms of his patients use of subs and their use of narcotics. I do not know what to due because I really really need something for the pain, but I am sure he will not help me out if he knows my past. This is just so much BS I am dealing with! I have been doing great for a year now and then all this. Well I need to figure out which route I am going to go with this Dr. and I will let you all know what happens when I get home from my appointment.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:25 am 
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Joseph,

I will share my opinion on this. I think that the doctor is more likely to do something about your pain if you are honest with him. Addicts have a right to pain relief too. Take the risk and tell him what is going on and that this isn't what you want either, but sometimes we don't have any great choices or very little choice you have at all. To me it is more understandable that he prescribe higher levels of narcotics BECAUSE you have been on sub as opposed to prescribing higher than normal doses just because of pain. I would bring in anything you have pertaining to pain management and sub. If he seems open to discussion (you can always tell what you are up against) then ask if he is interested. If not, then I would ask him if he can refer you to a doctor who might be able to help you.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:02 pm 
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Thanks for the reply JackCrack you are absolutely right I need to be completely honest with everyone I encounter for medical treatment while I am working on my sobriety as well as for the rest of my life to maintain sobriety from opiates. Unfortunately when I got to my Dr.s appt. they were unable to see me because they do not accept my insurance and I did not want to pay the $150 fee to be treated especially not knowing how the Dr. would react to my situation. That was very annoying because I double checked with the secretary to make sure that my insurance was accepted by the Dr. and when I got there all I got was I am terrible sorry but we can not see you. So I am currently still in pain and in the process of trying to find a pain management Dr. who will see me. I guess I have to keep on keeping on :D. Thanks again to everyone for all your suggestions and information it was much appreciated!!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:30 am 
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Hey everyone I have a few questions and not sure if I should do it here or start a new topic? Well those of you who have been fallowing my situation you know the story and for those who have not I have been dealing with tremendous amounts of pain so I stopped taking the subs and started with pain meds (norcos 10/325 & ms contin 30mg).

I have been taking pain meds for exactly one week now and will only be taking them for one more. The concerns that I am having is how should I induce myself back to the subutex from the pain meds? Do I have to wait for the WD's and since I have been taking such a small amount of pain meds do you think that I will be able to induce my self at a lower dose than 12mg?

Thanks to everyone for all the help!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:38 am 
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Hi Joseph,

Are the pain meds working? Are they keeping withdrawals at bay? When I had to have surgery and needed pain meds I went straight back to sub. My doctor told me to wait about 12 hours. At that time we expected I would need the pain meds for about a week. (Turned out I only needed them a few days.) Since you'll have been on them for two weeks, I'm not positive that you'll need to put yourself in w/d, but I doubt it. I'd wait at least 12 hours though, just to be sure. Can you call your doctor and ask him/her about it? If you're having any withdrawals symptoms with the pain meds, then I'd think you can go right back on the sub. Again though, this is merely my opinion, and I'm no doctor.

Maybe Dr. Junig will chime in??

Take care, Joseph, and please let us know how you're doing with the pain.

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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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