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 Post subject: Stopping Suboxone?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:28 am 
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Hey folks, name's Luke. A little bit about me: 22 years old, ex heroin addict, current suboxone addict. I was once enrolled in a recovery program based on tapering suboxone but left because of the lack of doctor/counselor knowledge & care as well as the ridiculous price. I would like to start by saying that I am not interested in opiates so that is not a concern. I am currently doing what I would call the sensible thing: taking the smallest amount of suboxone possible to make me feel normal, bought from a fellow recovering addict (not the sensible part but the sad truth is it's more affordable on the streets). A dose of 1mg a day twice a day for a total of 2mg a day is enough to keep me feeling like myself on most days, which is exactly what I want. Recently I've found out that my "dealer" will be stopping use of suboxone which means I am flat out cut off with no other way to obtain the drug. That has got me thinking I sure would like to be totally free of the enslavement that is suboxone addiction. So I'll just stop, right? Easier said than done. After a miserable week of trying to get off suboxone cold turkey I gave up and resumed taking enough to make me feel normal, still 2mg a day. Day 7 felt like days 1, 2 & 3. After hours of searching online I come to find out that suboxone comes with worse addiction & withdrawal symptoms & certainly longer lasting symptoms than heroin. WHAT?! Thanks for failing to tell me that the "miracle drug" you were so anxious to prescribe me has me worse off than I was shooting heroin. Am I crazy? I mean I would consider myself an emotionally strong person but if I am destined to be a slave to some sort of addiction my whole life I would rather kill myself. From what I can gather there is no way to detox from suboxone without A) going through weeks, possibly months of withdrawal symptoms. (I'm honestly not capable of withstanding that torture) B) spending $9000 on "rapid detox" methods that have little science to back them or C) tapering myself down over months & months. I do not have the kind of money or time they want me to spend to be prescribed the drug, let alone be prescribed it for up to a year. I may be a suboxone addict but I have a life, a life that I love and quite frankly there is absolutely no way that I can put my life on hold for any longer than a week or so. So that rules out cold turkey & rehab. Am I doomed to a life of constantly trying to find someone who can sell me suboxone for a reasonable price, many of whom I'd imagine are still addicts? Am I screwed? Any suggestions? I'm seriously without options that I can see.
Thanks.
-Luke


On a side note: No offense meant to anybody, everybody has their beliefs & I absolutely respect that. However, I am not at all religious so please please don't suggest religion as a cure. Thank you.


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 Post subject: Amazing
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:06 am 
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Crazy what 25 minutes of reading some positive posts can do for ya. This forum is different from others I've seen. I'm seeing some genuinely caring people who have shared many of my experiences here. Most of the original post was anger. It's just a horrible time to be cut off of suboxone, I'm looking for a new job and can't afford to not have one much longer. I've recently started talking to an absolutely beautiful woman and when I'm going through withdrawal I don't have the energy or motivation to give her my full effort. Just bad timing. However, I've decided to suck it up & get off this stuff for good. Tomorrow I'll wake up sick & so begins day 1. If I'm lucky enough to get the kind of support that it seems like you all give each other, I'm sure it will make it more bearable. My only fear is that it will last longer than 2 weeks or I will be called back to work too soon. I have made it to one week before with no noticeable change in symptoms or severity. But hey, what other option do I have? I'm tired of waking up & having to lay in bed until my suboxone kicks in because I honestly don't care about anything when I'm sick. I become a miserable, lethargic, extremely unmotivated shell of the man I know I am. I'll do my best to stay positive and as long as I don't get called to work I am ready to dedicate the next 2 weeks of my life to trying to exponentially better myself. I'll keep you posted day to day, hell probably several times a day just to keep me busy. I know it sounds cliche but any support would be much appreciated.
Thanks again.
-Luke


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 Post subject: Re: Amazing
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:50 am 
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Luke Nukem wrote:
Crazy what 25 minutes of reading some positive posts can do for ya. This forum is different from others I've seen. I'm seeing some genuinely caring people who have shared many of my experiences here. Most of the original post was anger. It's just a horrible time to be cut off of suboxone, I'm looking for a new job and can't afford to not have one much longer. I've recently started talking to an absolutely beautiful woman and when I'm going through withdrawal I don't have the energy or motivation to give her my full effort. Just bad timing. However, I've decided to suck it up & get off this stuff for good. Tomorrow I'll wake up sick & so begins day 1. If I'm lucky enough to get the kind of support that it seems like you all give each other, I'm sure it will make it more bearable. My only fear is that it will last longer than 2 weeks or I will be called back to work too soon. I have made it to one week before with no noticeable change in symptoms or severity. But hey, what other option do I have? I'm tired of waking up & having to lay in bed until my suboxone kicks in because I honestly don't care about anything when I'm sick. I become a miserable, lethargic, extremely unmotivated shell of the man I know I am. I'll do my best to stay positive and as long as I don't get called to work I am ready to dedicate the next 2 weeks of my life to trying to exponentially better myself. I'll keep you posted day to day, hell probably several times a day just to keep me busy. I know it sounds cliche but any support would be much appreciated.
Thanks again.
-Luke



Welcome to this site, there are some people here who I can GENUINELY relate with when it comes to my ex-opiate use.
I cannot ever call myself an ex-addict..because I'll ALWAYS be addicted.
THAT, my friend, is something that you have to realize on your own. You need to study yourself, the reasons behind opiate use to begin with, and what made you decide to self-medicate. Whether it was mental, physical, psychological..whatever the reason. Dealing with the underlying reasons is part of dealing with the problem that addiction is. And addiction will ALWAYS be a factor.

Cold hard facts: You'll probably always been a bit weaker when it comes to opiates unless you're prepared with the tools to fight off the triggers. You have to give yourself the tools to fight those triggers, no matter when they arise. Whether it's the middle of the night, and you wake up and HAVE to get that fix..or you encounter a major/minor surgery..and the temptation is there. You have to be ready, on ALL fronts, to battle this whenever it decides to rear it's ugly head again.

I for one cannot say that completely stopping suboxone is in MY best interest. That may change in the future...but at this point I don't foresee that happening. I've been on Suboxone for about 4 years now, and I'm not looking to quit. I'm 33, family man..love my life, but I've accepted the fact that I have to arm myself with the proper tool to deal with my addiction..and that tool, FOR ME, is the Suboxone and the impact it has on me. The biggest difference, I get mine from a doctor, prescribed. This might be your best avenue, as there's not much to show that you can wean off in a short-term and be relatively successful with that. You might make it a month...maybe 2...but you can fall back so easily, and why risk falling back when you've come so far?

Don't take my response as being negative or shooting down what you are trying to do....I wish you all the luck with that if that's your gameplan ...the problem is, I hope you can stick to what you'd like to do..and not have something that makes you trip and fall. It's just SO easy to fall back down without having the backup in place (like suboxone), when you have nothing there to give you that brick wall, then you're much more likely to suffer a devastating blow from out of no where.

People have successfully quit, with a LOT of time and patience, and tuning into their body...

Since I joined this forum, I've thought a LOT about my future..the rest of my life..where I am right now in life...and what I am likely to face in the years ahead..and I find it best that I stay where I am with my Suboxone and continue to use Suboxone as my back-up plan and keep myself ready at any time for what COULD happen. The worst part is the unknowing that can pop up...because you can't predict what could be your possible downfall.

Let me get straight to some point-blank questions:

What would be so bad about going to the doctor to get Suboxone? Is it a financial thing? I know that stops a lot of people because they think it's such a high cost, but you can simply find a doctor, in an OFFICE type setting, and he can prescribe you Suboxone from there...no methadone clinic or pain clinic required. I know some folks here use methadone clinics and I don't belittle or demean clinics by no means, I only say that because clinics sometimes charge more because they ARE a clinic. With Suboxone, you have that privacy thing that you can get in a regular doctor office. So maybe that could benefit you, just use the doctor locator at www.suboxone.com and type in your zip code. You can call them and see if you can get in..and ask them how much.

Most doctors will charge a little more on the first visit..but you are much more likely to have the first visit, then have to come back in a month. There's not many doctors that do a weekly dosing, but some doctors DO require you to come back in 2 weeks after induction for bloodwork/urinalysis to make sure it's filtering through your liver properly.
My doctor didn't require me to come in every 2 weeks. Not even every month. My doctor started me out on 12 week visits from the start...BUT <---key word....I was already a suboxone patient with another doctor..and just transferred. So it wasn't like I had to do the induction all over again. PLUS, MY doctor only charged me for the regular visit amount..I wasn't charged the whole induction amount that a first-timer would be charged.

I can understand wanting to be totally free of the whole stigma of a pill for a pill..but Suboxone really is a great tool in the fight against a never-ending disease (addiction). I have decided that for me, it's best that I stay in a position to be pro-active toward my addiction..and Suboxone gives me that power to do that. But that's just me..this differs from person to person.

Again, welcome and any questions you can bet will have plenty of helpful replies by those here who have been through what you're looking to do.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:42 am 
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Hi and welcome! I am glad you have found support in our forum.

Stopping sub at 2mg isn't going to be easy but it is doable. We will be here to help you in anyway we can. Keeping a journal here is something a lot of members do. It alows you to see your progress and others here can see where you're at and offer any advice they may have. Don't hesitate to ask any questions.

I hope you have a smooth transition!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:59 am 
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If you decide to reduce further or just jump off... Give yourself 2 weeks as a guideline. I jumped off 6+ mg a couple of times, and both those times I remember the symptoms as being acute around days 5-8 ... by day 12 I was functional, by 2 weeks I was well enough to say I'd gotten through the ordeal.

Jumping off a lower dose will reduce the intensity. The first time I went on Subutex, I reduced down to 1mg and jumped off... this was before Suboxone came out and before anyone had figured out how to taper. I remember feeling sick for over a week.

If you decide to jump, I'd suggest going to a sympathetic GP and seeing if you can get some meds to assist. Large-ish doses of Ibuprofen helps a lot, especially if you have to be functional for a couple of hours. Clonidine helps me with the sweats & runny nose & eyes. Loperamide. Quitting smoking I've found also reduces the physical symptoms a bit and gives more energy.

I know how it feels to meet an amazing woman and be shaky about being on replacement therapy. Have you told her about the Suboxone or about any of the drug stuff? For the most part, I've found that if a woman likes a guy, they're accepting of these things.

It just sucks that because of the $$ issue, Suboxone is so out of reach for a lot of people in America. I always hear people say "but you paid $$ X on heroin a day, and you complain about $ of Suboxone?" I thought the point of Suboxone was to stop doing crime to pay for your drugs... Anyway, I digress.

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I would like to start by saying that I am not interested in opiates so that is not a concern.


If you truly mean that without reservation, then go for it. Your chances should be good. Most people who swear off drugs however, have this niggling reservation or feeling, or doubt that they'll be able to stay clean, or a feeling that using still serves a purpose. IMO those are the 9 out of 10 people who relapse. The 1 in 10 who succeed know without reservation they don't want to use anymore.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:17 am 
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Hey Luke,

Welcome to the forum!

I completely understand your first post, when I quit Suboxone, I was pissed as hell because I was told, by my doctor, that it was no sweat to get off of. She said after 3 days I'd feel fine.....HA!!!!

Anyway, Suboxone has an extremely long half life, about 37.5 hours. Most people report, like Tearjerker said, that days 5-8 are about the roughest. In my case, day 10 was my peak, but I jumped from a fairly high dose.

Immodium AD helps a LOT with the stomach issues (aka, the shits) and I found Clonidine (a blood pressure medication) helped quite a bit. I tried a bunch of other herbal remedies and whatnot, but nothing came close to the help that Immodium AD and Clonidine gave me.

I have heard MANY people swear by putting Epsom salt in with your bath water, something about the Magnesium?? Oh Yeah, hot baths/showers help tons. Shower 50 frickin' times a day if you have to.

Suboxone wd is long and drawn out, but if you're hell bent on getting off of Suboxone, you can make your way through it. I never thought I had it in me to REALLY quit Suboxone and opiates, but I did. Kinda shocked the hell out myself actually.

Don't be afraid to post all you need, that's part of why this forum is here.

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 Post subject: Day 1
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:15 pm 
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Thanks everybody. Day one with no suboxone is exactly how I thought it would be. I woke up and tossed & turned for an hour before reluctantly getting up. I've been doing a little homework online. Going to the local GNC to get some valerian root, aka natures valium, for the restless nights that lie ahead. Gave my brother my last 2mg strip to hold in case something goes wrong & I need to take it, that way at least I wont try to get something else like dope. Feeling good but day one always was the easiest. Currently going to get a hot shower & go for a long long walk. If I'm not feeling better by 2-14 I'm gonna have to give it up but I'm feeling good about this. I'm actually past 24 hours since taking any suboxone but only about 12 hours into the withdrawal.


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 Post subject: OH
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:26 pm 
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& just to answer one of the few questions I saw. Jonathanm1978, when I do the doctor search 8 doctors within 30 miles come up. Seven of them are from the last place I went where they were hell bent on keeping me there for life & had no plan or direction for me. All 8 of the doctors will not treat me unless I stop smoking marijuana. Call me crazy but I think I've got enough going on trying to quit suboxone. I just don't see any reason for me to give up one of my last guilty pleasures. Also, The last place I went cost me around $58 a week, with good insurance & required me to come once a week for three months then twice a month every following month. Pricey for someone who's currently unemployed & living off his life savings especially when I was down to 1/4 mg a day and still paying $33 for a prescription of 2 strips.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Google "Thomas's Recipe" ... that has some good pointers as well.

Magnesium tablets do help a bit with the aches too. Useful to have before bed.


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