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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:10 am 
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Morning guys, Day 21 and counting.

Still rockin' & rollin over here. I had my appointment yesterday and I don't know what I was expecting to be honest, but my Sub doc seemed strangely.... unaffected. Maybe it's just his manner, maybe it's in my head, maybe he's just seen it all too many times. I dunno. But I was great to walk out of there with NO Sub RX! I did get me some Ambien, and for the first time in 3 weeks I got 10 hours of straight through, uninterrupted sleep last night and it was AWESOME. I feel great and it's a good thing too because I have quite a large workload to sludge through all weekend (remnants of the aftermath that was Hurricane SubDetox).

Bye guys
-RSJ


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:11 am 
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Hey guys, quick check in. Day #23 from my high jump.

I'm still doin' good. Just really tired. I am still (or again) having MAJOR sleep issues. The Ambien I was given worked for a whole 2 or 3 days and then BAM, I can only sleep in "shifts" again. 4 hours at a time MAX. Yesterday was a long day and by 9:30pm I could NOT keep my eyes open and went to bed and fell right to sleep. Woke up WIDE awake at 12:45am. I decided to eat a snack, watch a TV show, take an Ambien and try the sleep thing again... Tossed n' turned up until the alarm went off at 5:00am this morning. Now, I'll yawn my way through work and more than likely the same thing will happen again tonight. I am just so damn frustrated with it right now. I know its just been 23 days but somethin's gotta give at some point right?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:45 am 
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For many of us who have gotten off opiates, sleep is the last thing to return to normal. I know how bad it sucks, I've been there, done that and got the T-Shirt to prove it.

Try to be patient with your brain, it's doing its level best to figure out how to live without opiates.

I wish I could give you some kind of advice on what to do to help with the sleep, but I never found anything that really worked consistently.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:46 am 
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RsjxRsj wrote:
Hey guys, quick check in. Day #23 from my high jump.

I'm still doin' good. Just really tired. I am still (or again) having MAJOR sleep issues. The Ambien I was given worked for a whole 2 or 3 days and then BAM, I can only sleep in "shifts" again. 4 hours at a time MAX. Yesterday was a long day and by 9:30pm I could NOT keep my eyes open and went to bed and fell right to sleep. Woke up WIDE awake at 12:45am. I decided to eat a snack, watch a TV show, take an Ambien and try the sleep thing again... Tossed n' turned up until the alarm went off at 5:00am this morning. Now, I'll yawn my way through work and more than likely the same thing will happen again tonight. I am just so damn frustrated with it right now. I know its just been 23 days but somethin's gotta give at some point right?


The sleep thing can get so frustrating, can't it?! I have a good friend who jumped and never missed one night of sleep. I am so envious, lol. However, that is pretty much unheard of, so we are more normal for people who are tapering and/or jumping.

My tips for the sleep issue are just what has worked for me.....

Try to wear yourself out physically, but not too late in the day. This really works! However, if you do a big workout late in the day, I've found it can keep me awake and contribute to RLS and general restlessness. Don't drink any coffee past 12 or 1 p.m. You may drag the first couple days, but this helps too Take your clock out of your bedroom or at least turn it around. I use my phone to wake me up and I don't see the time unless I get up to go to the kitchen. Seeing the clock only stresses me out and what does it matter if you calculate the hours you did/did not sleep?

Realize you are early into jumping still and jumped high, so this is normal and not indicative of any permanent problem. Realize 4 hours of sleep ain't all that bad! Oprah actually sleeps very little all the time and intentionally trained herself to do this so she could have more time to make money :D If you cannot sleep and sense that your brain is 100% not going to cooperate, read a book. I read on my iPad and it helps me go back to sleep; plus I'm doing something other than tossing around and getting all worked up about it. This sort of insomnia is a tough breed and it's better to just roll with it to a degree. Hey, I heard Howard Stern talking about insomnia and how if you cannot sleep, at least when you are laying down, you are resting and that counts for something. This somehow makes me feel better, lol. That dude can hardly ever sleep and he's not getting off Sub, so really, we are much better off than him, right?

I know the Ambien isn't working for you anymore, and I think that's normal. Stuff works a while and then stops working. You have a few options as far as that goes. You could try Lunesta. I've heard people have more luck w/ that working over a longer period of time. Of course, eventually you'd have to get off Lunesta....You could alternate between Ambien and Lunesta to avoid getting used to either one. For me, what works is drinking Chamomile tea at night and then taking Melatonin. You must brew it correctly. First, get very good Chamomile. Pour boiling water over it; put a plate over the mug; let it steep a good ten minutes. This stuff actually helps, believe it or not, and if you brew it right it has the same effect as a weak Valium. Then, take a time-release Melatonin. These two together are pretty effective. You can alternate between taking the Melatonin and the Ambien.

Oh, when I used to take Ambien, I'd wake up during the night too. So, I started reserving about 1/3 of my tab for the middle of the night, at which point I'd take it and fall back to sleep. Maybe you can try this.

Listen, you will sleep. I understand the frustration.....you will be sleeping a full night before you know it. Hope something in this reply helps or at least lets you know that there are lots of us in the same boat. It will not kill us!!!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:02 pm 
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Dang you guys always know the exact right thing to say.

Miss Ladd, the whole clock thing, counting, calculating... GENIUS!

I use my phone as my be-all end-all clock as well, and that's the first thing I do is flick that thing on "clock-watch, count, then worry."

I'm gonna be SO pissed if it turns out that in reality, all this time, I'm one of THOSE people that only require 4 hours sleep a night to function. I love sleep! Sleep is my favorite hobby!

Ugh, guess I'm gonna have to either learn to read or pick up needle pointing. Knitting, maybe I can knit.

Sweaters anyone?
-RSJ


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:28 pm 
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Well, this is the second time I used suboxone to get off opiates. (Maintaining much longer than I should have, after reading all of the info on the internets the past few hours….)
The first time ’round was not bad at all. I had a steady street supply of subs, and gradually, slowly weened myself down to crumbles, and don’t remember feeling any withdrawal at all.
I estimate about 1.5 years opiate use (smaller stuff graduating into H, sadly). Then I spent about 6-8 months on suboxone. At first, maintaining. Then for about 4 months gradually stepping down the dose. This was about three years ago-and I was clean for almost two years.
I relapsed around this time last year. Abusive ex-boyfriend, and a best friend I had lost touch with due to her addiction asking me to send her “just enough to get clean” in the mail, and keep a few for my troubles. NOT that excuses are any reason to go down the opiate road again. But they were handed to me, for free….stupid me.
Anyway. Started H again. Slowly…for a few weeks. But it went much quicker this time. I needed more and more every day. Stress was high, and that was my release.
September-March I went from 1 or 2 to 6 or 7 a day. For me, that is a lot.
April-abusive boyfriend finds out, and begins to beat me because I am using again. Great time to try to switch to sub and get clean, right?
But I had to. It was making a mess of my life, I was running out of places to go and people to turn to.
So back on subs. I never needed very much-started at a quarter of an 8mg pill, work my way down quickly to less than an eighth a day within about a month. Both times around.
Then, the maintain. When you just kinda take the same amount every day, because you’ve been doing that or something else for so long..it feels normal.
So, between June and 4 days and 8 hours ago, I weened down to less and less every day. The last week I must have stretched .25 mgs out.
So it’s been over 4 days. Some reports online say after day 5, it gets better. Others say after day 5 is hell.
I am already an insomniac, and have a myriad of sleep meds-10mg Melatonin, 5-htp, AdvilPM. So far only the first night was bad for insomnia, and the past two nights I have been jerked awake by restless legs, a few times a night.
My biggest fear is multiple nights of insomnia. Have experienced it, and don’t function well without sleep.
At this point, I am simply wondering if things are going to get better, or worse. The uncertainty and anticipation is causing my anxiety to mount, which I know will just increase my symptoms.
Anyone with a similar situation?
Any feedback would be helpful..also any suggestions on OTC meds for restless legs and sleep.
I don’t really have the best health insurance right now.


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 Post subject: Day 6 and hurting
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:20 pm 
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So. Skin is crawling, sweaty, insomnia, restless legs, upset stomach..no appetite. Pretty much everything I was dreading. Suggestions please. I actually feel a slight craving...but I am putting that as far back in my head as possible.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:37 pm 
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Hey faltered,

Do you have any Clonidine?? Clonidine is a blood pressure medication that is prescribed off label for opiate wd. Clonidine helps to calm the Sympathetic Nervous System, the SNS is partially why you're feeling so crappy right now. Go to your doctor, tell him you're quitting opiates and that you're in wd and ask him for some Clonidine.

You're at day 6, your symptoms are pretty close to or are at max right now. Try to keep your mind occupied, sitting around feeling sorry for yourself is about the worst thing you can do to yourself. Try to get up and do something too. I know your body is screaming at you to be a bump on a log, but getting up and doing anything will help.

I've heard of taking Magnesium for the RLS, but I never did it myself so I can't really vouch for it. I know when I got up and exercised the hell out of my legs for a good few minutes, it would stave off the RLS for up to 2.5 hours at a time.

Hang in there and keep posting.

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 Post subject: Last Nite/Today
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:16 am 
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Last night was the worst so far. Insomnia, even after my usual supplement dosage, plus some chamomile and a bowl about 3 hours in, when I woke up and couldn't sleep. The tea and pot did nothing.
You know-two hours awake, half hour asleep..all nite.
Had to work 11 hours today, no fun.

So-this morning, made the mistake of getting coffee, I was so tired. Definitely amplified the wd effects.
I spent work very fidgety and sweaty. I prefer to bundle up and sweat versus being shivery.
Also had stomach issues, which was added discomfort.
Luckily, Sunday is a slow day...spent half my shift online, deciding whether or not to spend the $90 on withdrawalease.
Ended up electing a stop at Walmart on the way home.
I had written down a list of ingredients in withdrawalease, along with other people's suggestions online for helping wd's.
I bought: Sleep aid with several natural ingredients that were listed in the "nite time" wd-ease pill:
L-Theanine, Melatonin, Chamomile extract, passion flower extract, and lemon balm leaf extract.
Also found: Multivit, covering Vitamin B, D, and all that good stuff my body needs right now.
Loperimide HcL-apparently, some people report it helping multiple wd symptoms.
Benadryl-for the sneezes, and just in case the other sleep meds don't work..
Ecinachea-Immune booster to hopefully help speed up the process..
and finally, Cayenne, which apparently helps with stomach issues and nerve/muscle pain.

Now-Clonidine. If Urgent Care had been open today, I would have gone to ask. I don't have a specific doctor, I am in the 'Health Safety Net". I will look into that tomorrow..seems like it would work for what I am feeling.

Right now-I am home, with clean clothes on. Just smoked a bowl and took some Cayenne and Ecinachea..hmm how do you spell that?
I am waiting until I wind down to take the sleep meds.
I am just hoping day 7 is the same and not worse. I can live with this...and being at home tomorrow will make thing easier.
And NO MORE COFFEE!!
Any feedback is helpful and appreciated...thanks R for responding!!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:24 am 
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Whoops, sorry, I kinda forgot to tell you NO COFFEE!!!! Well, now ya know, eh? :D

I know you said that you can live with how you feel right now and that's a great attitude. I still want to share a little more about Clonidine though.

OK, Clonidine will EASILY outdo ALL of those supplements you just bought.....combined!! Clonidine also has a sedative effect....as in SLEEP!!

Don't bother ordering it off the internet, it takes weeks and weeks and weeks to get to ya. It comes from India. If you jumped from a high dose, I'd tell ya to go ahead and order it, but seeing as you weaned yourself down, I don't think you'll need it 3 weeks from now.

You're on day 7, with the symptoms you're describing, if I were you, I'd roll the dice and go to the urgent care thing and see if they'll give you some. You just have to be up front and honest with them.

Take care and hang in there.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:15 am 
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Hey Faltered,
I myself just hit the 30 day mark TODAY. I jumped cold turkey from 10 months @ 8mg.
I just wanted to chime in and say that Romeo's advice about the Clonidine was probably THE single best piece of advice I received. It was somewhere between days 7 and 10 I think that I sucked it up and went to an "Urgent Care" type place and told the Dr. straight up, I'm CT withdrawing from Suboxone, I hadn't slept in some 30 hours, and he was most compassionate and after taking one look at me, taking my blood pressure, he had NO problem prescribing the Clonidine. When I went in, my blood pressure was through the roof anyway, and I would imaging yours is a little elevated as well with all the discomfort your in.

I too learned the hard way early in NO coffee, Not even tea, any kind of stimulant no matter how innocuous it may seem. The fatigue I had was so bad I thought coffee was the answer. BIG mistake. I wanted to also say that during the sleep deprivation I tried things like NyQuil and Benedryl to try and sleep, I don't know if this was individual just to ME, but the Benedryl sent my RLS into overdrive, like x2! So I'd take that only during the day while moving if you can hack the drowsiness, but for ME, at night before bed was a bad, BAD idea. And don't forget, Tylenol PM, Advil PM, ALL those, if you'll look at the ingredients, the extra "PM" ingredient is Diphenhydramine (Benedryl). In fact, a majority of OTC sleep aids, Nytol, Sominex, Sleepinal, Compoz... ALL just Benedryl under different names. Just something to think about.

In the beginning I went to walmart and picked up a large bottle of Immodium (obviously) as well as multivitamins (Centrum), and at my workplace, I snagged a handful of "Anti Dehydration Tablets" that our field crews use. They're nothing but Electrolytes, Potassium Chloride, Calcium phosphate & Magnesium carbonate. I took those and drank water water water all day long. I was never able to miss a day of work through the whole thing and I would force myself to walk the stairs in my office building, 10 flights. The first day or two I only made it up to 3 or 4, but after that I was able to get all the way up and down. Whenever I felt the fatigue was going to put me under my desk, or my anxiety was going to send me out of the building, the stairwell became my friend. It was a place to break down and cry as well as get some movement and "exercise"

But BY FAR, the best advice I got and took advantage of was that advice from Romeo! Going to get Clonidine (NOT to be mistaken for Klonopin). I don't know how or why this BP med does it's thing, but I can vouch for it 110%. My only regret was waiting so long to suck it up and go ask for help.

As I said earlier, I am 30 days out today and I'm sleeping a good 6 hours a night, I feel great, still some lingering tummy issues, but nothing I can't live with. My internal thermostat has finally regulated itself too. No more freezing to death inside an 80 degree room and no more hot flashes and sweating.

Thanks again Romeo!!! ((( BIG HUG )))

-RSJ


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 Post subject: Day 7
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:57 pm 
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Day 7, almost to the hour exactly.
Last night, I didn't get sleepy until around 2, but I slept until my bf's alarm went off at 6am.
4 straight hours is good compared to the last few nights.
Today...symptoms not too bad, so far. Just really really tired, but not enough to be able to nap. I am no good at sleeping during the day-especially when it's sunny.
I am extremely emotional. Watched CG movies all day, and teared up at every slightly emotional scene. Happy and sad..definitely some happy tears too.
I have been getting up, moving around..doing laundry, playing with my dog. My energy is real low, though. Still haven't worked up the energy to shower.
I have a strange feeling that some of the symptoms may have relaxed, a little. At least the temperature sensitivity, and sweats. So far...
I am sure the nighttime symptoms will persist. I am an insomniac anyway, so tonight..who knows.
I am hoping I am overtired enough to sleep. The supplements I bought were helpful for that solid 4 hours.
It's good to share, and hear back. Definitely helpful!!


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 Post subject: Re: Day 7
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:37 pm 
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falteredbutfree wrote:
Day 7, almost to the hour exactly.
Last night, I didn't get sleepy until around 2, but I slept until my bf's alarm went off at 6am.
4 straight hours is good compared to the last few nights.
Today...symptoms not too bad, so far. Just really really tired, but not enough to be able to nap. I am no good at sleeping during the day-especially when it's sunny.
I am extremely emotional. Watched CG movies all day, and teared up at every slightly emotional scene. Happy and sad..definitely some happy tears too.
I have been getting up, moving around..doing laundry, playing with my dog. My energy is real low, though. Still haven't worked up the energy to shower.
I have a strange feeling that some of the symptoms may have relaxed, a little. At least the temperature sensitivity, and sweats. So far...
I am sure the nighttime symptoms will persist. I am an insomniac anyway, so tonight..who knows.
I am hoping I am overtired enough to sleep. The supplements I bought were helpful for that solid 4 hours.
It's good to share, and hear back. Definitely helpful!!


We're in a similar spot, I think. You jumped a bit before me, though. I'm working on Day 5. My energy is real low. I've been sitting around too, especially since my kids are sick. I make myself get up and do one thing and then I sit back down.

I don't know if you read, but it is much better than watching tv during the day, at least for me. I get sooooo bummed when I watch tv and it's not the nighttime shows. :( I read at night too when I cannot sleep....

Try taking a bath. Yesterday, I felt too tired to stand long enough to shower, so I pulled out a Lush bath bomb and took a nice purple bath, which made me feel better and relaxed me before bed. Don't fear the insomnia. Fear is so poisonous. Take the clock out of your room or turn it around. It doesn't make you any more rested to know how little you slept. It only makes you stress over it more. We will not die of insomnia. We will be sleeping like babies and catching up on all this missed sleep before we know it.

K, so take a hot bath that will make you smell great, put on super comfy PJ's, read a good book, and see if that helps. I also take a Melatonin when I get in bed to read and it many times actually works.

laddertipper

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 Post subject: Day 8!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:13 am 
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Dare I say the worst is over?

Last night..I was tired enough to sleep! 5 hours, then another three. Most I have gotten yet!
Today, I feel pretty ok. Just dragging a little. I actually ended up waking up and feeling way fuzzier than I had on no sleep for a week...which was kind of odd.
It is rainy here today...maybe I can partially blame the weather.
Physical symptoms, at this point...when I woke up after 5 hours, my legs were a little twitchy...but I was too tired to try to get up, so I laid in bed long enough to pass back out after about an hour.

Temperature sensitivity is minimal...I am not feeling hot/cold extremes, or sweaty..which is awesome. I just feel on the chilly side. About to curl up on the couch with my dog, a blanket, and a movie.
Basically, my energy is just really low. I am assuming that will continue for some time.

I am wondering when I can introduce caffeine again..at least in tea form. It won't be until after a few good solid nights of sleep...but a girl has got to function at some point..

Amazed how different the past two days have been, compared to day 6. That was by far the worst for me (so far...)
At least there is hope!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:45 am 
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RsjxRsj, here's some ((((HUGS)))) right back at ya buddy!!

Ladder, I loved the bath advice so much I just took one. I put a Lush bath bomb in there and I smell so pretty now it's just amazing!! Now, if I can just find some comfy PJ's I'll be all set. BTW, I did NOT take a bath and I did not put a smelly thing in there, but I do smell wonderful......I think??

Faltered, you're doing absolutely fantastic!! It's completely normal to be dragging a little and I remember the fuzzy thing after getting some better sleep too. When I would get 3 or 4 hours a night in my early wd, I was alert and fully awake after that. Once I started sleeping a bit better, I remember feeling even more tired and I was like WTF?? I think in the early stages of wd we're so alert because our Central Nervous System is going absolutely bananas. Once the CNS calms down, we sleep more, but the CNS is now calm so we're sleepy?? IDK?? Just my theory. I'm really glad to hear you're doing so well!! YAY for you!!

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 Post subject: Re: Day 8!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:22 pm 
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falteredbutfree wrote:
Dare I say the worst is over?

Last night..I was tired enough to sleep! 5 hours, then another three. Most I have gotten yet!
Today, I feel pretty ok. Just dragging a little. I actually ended up waking up and feeling way fuzzier than I had on no sleep for a week...which was kind of odd.
It is rainy here today...maybe I can partially blame the weather.
Physical symptoms, at this point...when I woke up after 5 hours, my legs were a little twitchy...but I was too tired to try to get up, so I laid in bed long enough to pass back out after about an hour.

Temperature sensitivity is minimal...I am not feeling hot/cold extremes, or sweaty..which is awesome. I just feel on the chilly side. About to curl up on the couch with my dog, a blanket, and a movie.
Basically, my energy is just really low. I am assuming that will continue for some time.

I am wondering when I can introduce caffeine again..at least in tea form. It won't be until after a few good solid nights of sleep...but a girl has got to function at some point..

Amazed how different the past two days have been, compared to day 6. That was by far the worst for me (so far...)
At least there is hope!


So, Day 6 was your worst day? I'm on Day 6....

LOL...I read that too fast and thought you said "I'm about to curl up with my dog blanket". :D Whatever works! :wink:

As far as caffeine, just proceed with caution. I've been drinking caffeine the whooolllee time, with few exceptions. However, I did have to cut back. It only takes a few sips and if it's not okay, you will start getting hot flashes and waves of anxiety. Don't drink a cup of coffee really fast and the realize too late that it wasn't a good idea. You can also drink decaf, which still has caffeine, or half-caf. You can drink bag tea and brew it in a bigger than normal mug.....green tea is good. Or English Breakfast. Neither or those are very strong on the tea scale. Another option is to just not start drinking caffeine again. I know I had way more energy when pregnant and drinking no caffeine. I just like coffee and tea too much though!

You are right. A girl's gotta function. I'm still drinking coffee and tea, but I am still really fatigued and cannot say it helps much other than psychologically.

laddertipper

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 Post subject: Update...
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:16 am 
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Hmm I should post this so people like me who were reading while enduring can have hope!
So after day 8, the only symptom remaining is fatigue. I have been able to introduce tea with caffeine in it, as long as it's before around 1pm. This helps with that dragging feeling.
I have been sleeping much better. I only wake up once a night, and sleep 6-7 hours.
(I love to sleep...normally, 8-9 hours would be my average).
I feel pretty damn good. I am going back to my normal schedule of getting a second wind around 11pm, that keeps me going until 1 or 2am..but that is very 'normal' for me.
Life is good. And it seems to be getting better every day... :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:55 am 
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Yippee for Faltered!!

Thanks for the update and I'm glad to hear you're doing good!!

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