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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:27 pm 
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Hello everyone! I am currently not feeling super well and by my title it should be quite obvious why i am not feeling well. This is close to the end of my first 24 hours. Before i get started i would like to say i understand this is a HUGE and possible dangerous jump from 24mg to 0mg but i have absolutely zero choice because i am on a court ordered program and they have a very strict zero tolerance for any maintenance. My doctor is livid! But ultimately this is my choice and though i wish i could taper or have been warned a few months in advance but that's not the way things happened. Basically for you guys to get a better understanding it's either stop taking Suboxone now and keep my freedom or go to jail and have to detox without my freedom... The choice to me is not a complex one. My back story is like most I was addicted to every opiate on the planet including intravenous use. I have been on Suboxone for just shy of 3 years. There is NO doubt in my mind that it saved my life and played a huge role in making my dysfunctional life functional again! I would like to get any advice from those who have successfully quite sub and quite frankly i just want support and prayers.

I plan on posting daily on the forums with my updates for that day. Along with how i am doing physically, mentally, and in life in general. I want to use this "diary" to help not only myself kick this drug but for others to look to for reference and to see that it is indeed possible! I WILL kick sub even if i have to stay in my bathtub for the next 2-3 weeks.

My Plan (day 1-3)
-NAC Supplement 600mg take two twice a day (2400mg total)
-OneSource Men's Multivitamin/Minerals take twice a day (morning and night)
-Melatonin 5mg double dose
-Valerian Root double dose
-Seroquel 50mg+
-Milk Thistle
-5 Hour Energy

Days 4-10
-TONS of Hot Baths!
-Aleve
-NAC Supplement
-Multivitamin/Mineral
-Vitamin B6 100mg
-L-Tyrosine 500mg
-Gabapentin 600mg (will take up to 4,000mg)
-Seroqual 50mg+
-Hydroxyzine 50mg+
-Milk Thistle
-Adrenal Plus


*DAY 1*
I have successfully made it though on full day. I have had no serious issues thus far. Just mild depression and fear for whats to come and how i am going to manage going to work, paying bills, and still being a good productive father to my 3 year old and husband to my wife. I know things can get very stressful when going through W/D's not to mention a extremely short fuse. I have sat down with them and explained to them that the next few weeks are going to be difficult for the entire family to say the least but we will make it through and in the end things will be much better. I started of this morning taking two NAC supplement's. Ate a small breakfast then took my multivitamin. I also took 60 drops of milk thistle tincture extract in a shot glass of water. I have tomorrow and Sunday off work so these next two days shouldn't be to bad. It's Monday that i am dreading. I hope to hear from the community and get advice, input, support, constructive criticism, etc! I will be off and on throughout the weekend and will post how my day was at the end of each day!

Thank you guys in advance for any help you can offer whether it be just talking to me, advice, your experiences, prayers, keeping me in your thoughts, etc. Whatever the case may be. I thank each and everyone of you!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:38 pm 
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Ooooo....feel for you, really truly do, and yes, praying. Stay "connected". God will see you through!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:58 pm 
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I read a thread on another forum by a doctor specializing in CTs from extremely high opiate levels, such as 150 Mg/day of Methadone (which probably makes your jump look a lot easier in comparison).

One of the thing that caught my eye in this thread was how the doctor put his CT patients on IV nutrients for the first week. Here's the post I'm talking about, maybe there's something in here that will help you out:

http://www.medhelp.org/tags/health_page/45/Addiction/Detox-and-Nutrition-for-Opiate-Methadone-Addicts?hp_id=55

Good luck, brother.

-- ji

Edit; Personally I hate Seroquil, but when I went 72 hours Methadone-free prior to going on Subs, it was Godsend. Completely vegged me out, which was just what I needed.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:36 pm 
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Hey man, I want you to know I understand the gravity of your situation. I take that back, I don’t understand it, 24mg’s for 3 years. That is territory I can’t even imagine.
All I know is the human body is an incredible organism when it comes to healing itself. I’m not sure how many withdrawals you went through before starting the Sub program, but depending of what you were doing , you may have already suffered through far worse torture. But that doesn’t matter now, in a way it makes it worse – knowing what to expect.

One thing that’s cool is by the time the holidays role around and 2015 is here, you’re going to be a different person. Remember, as time flows forward, your cells are regenerating, each day that goes by a little bit of a new you is being born. The whole process takes 2 years completely, but that’s how long it takes for our bodies to regenerate. Give yourself nutrients to heal your body and exercise to strengthen your heart and will and, I promise, you will love the vessel that holds your soul. You will be solid, strong, and wise. But you will have to journey through the fire of body and mind, enduring the pain.

I remember during my worst withdrawal, where I didn’t sleep for 6 days straight, feeling so weak that each breath felt like it was a strain on my heart. It was so bad I defecated on myself while lying in bed. I just kept thinking, as a species, my ancestors had to have gone through harder things than this, suffered the pain of being laid bare to the elements of nature, starving to death. Eventually, delirious thoughts of my father came to me. He kept saying to me as he threw me in the air “we are the most powerful” “we are the most powerful.” I think he was very proud of his Scandinavian heritage, he would tell me that our ancestors were Vikings. But I held onto that thought, and kept repeating to myself, “you are the most powerful, don’t give up.” It’s weird sounding, but I was delirious and it worked like a mantra.

You are going to get through this. Most importantly, though, once you have the energy. Get up and move around, takes walks in the woods, go out in the middle of nowhere and just scream. It feels good, and is a great release. Don’t stay locked away in your house, curled up in a dark room. Get out and breath.

You will be in my thoughts.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:58 pm 
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I'm curious wolf, are you on sub maintanence, or have you recently jumped?? What you said makes perfect sense. I know that physiological changes occur during longerterm opiode use. Thats when you begin to see hairloss, endocrine problems and cns problems ect.

Jumping from 24 mg is crazy! I've recently seen someone jumo from 16 mg on this forum, so i know its possible. Everyone is different. Make sure your active. Sitting around for a month waiting to feel better is a recipe for failure IMO. This is just as much mental physical. Be prepared to face feelings and thoughts that you havent felt in years. Detox from sub is unique in that its taken every single day sometimes fot years. When i began percs or vic, i never allowed myself to lose touch with reality the way subs did. Make sure you have support too! Its hugeee during detox


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:59 pm 
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wow, your my hero, sorry it has to end for you like this but life does offer up some hurdles. Im sure you can do it and will. just keep up your positive attitude and it will carry you far. You should expect a rough few weeks but people have done it before you, ie jail which would suck. Glad you have the comfort of your home to detox. keep posting and best of luck. DB


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:55 pm 
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Thank you guys for replying back even though it is the 4th! I hope everyone enjoys the holiday weekend to the fullest of their ability! There have been a lot of great things said in the few replies. The link to the IV administered nutrients was a fantastic read. Quite long and perfectly detailed but something i definitely needed to read. Not to mention will benefit from. Wolf i really enjoyed your read! It spoke deeply to me in more ways the one! What i have gathered from everyone is that exercise is a must! This is something that makes total sense logically but actually doing it when in full blown W/D will be the issue. But i am bound and determined to see this through the other option is NOT a option. Thanks you guys a ton for the support. I will be posting tomorrow afternoon/evening with my Day 2 update.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:31 pm 
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csgo1337 wrote:
Hello everyone! I am currently not feeling super well and by my title it should be quite obvious why i am not feeling well. This is close to the end of my first 24 hours. Before i get started i would like to say i understand this is a HUGE and possible dangerous jump from 24mg to 0mg but i have absolutely zero choice because i am on a court ordered program and they have a very strict zero tolerance for any maintenance. My doctor is livid! But ultimately this is my choice and though i wish i could taper or have been warned a few months in advance but that's not the way things happened. Basically for you guys to get a better understanding it's either stop taking Suboxone now and keep my freedom or go to jail and have to detox without my freedom... The choice to me is not a complex one. My back story is like most I was addicted to every opiate on the planet including intravenous use. I have been on Suboxone for just shy of 3 years. There is NO doubt in my mind that it saved my life and played a huge role in making my dysfunctional life functional again! I would like to get any advice from those who have successfully quite sub and quite frankly i just want support and prayers.

I plan on posting daily on the forums with my updates for that day. Along with how i am doing physically, mentally, and in life in general. I want to use this "diary" to help not only myself kick this drug but for others to look to for reference and to see that it is indeed possible! I WILL kick sub even if i have to stay in my bathtub for the next 2-3 weeks.

My Plan (day 1-3)
-NAC Supplement 600mg take two twice a day (2400mg total)
-OneSource Men's Multivitamin/Minerals take twice a day (morning and night)
-Melatonin 5mg double dose
-Valerian Root double dose
-Seroquel 50mg+
-Milk Thistle
-5 Hour Energy

Days 4-10
-TONS of Hot Baths!
-Aleve
-NAC Supplement
-Multivitamin/Mineral
-Vitamin B6 100mg
-L-Tyrosine 500mg
-Gabapentin 600mg (will take up to 4,000mg)
-Seroqual 50mg+
-Hydroxyzine 50mg+
-Milk Thistle
-Adrenal Plus


*DAY 1*
I have successfully made it though on full day. I have had no serious issues thus far. Just mild depression and fear for whats to come and how i am going to manage going to work, paying bills, and still being a good productive father to my 3 year old and husband to my wife. I know things can get very stressful when going through W/D's not to mention a extremely short fuse. I have sat down with them and explained to them that the next few weeks are going to be difficult for the entire family to say the least but we will make it through and in the end things will be much better. I started of this morning taking two NAC supplement's. Ate a small breakfast then took my multivitamin. I also took 60 drops of milk thistle tincture extract in a shot glass of water. I have tomorrow and Sunday off work so these next two days shouldn't be to bad. It's Monday that i am dreading. I hope to hear from the community and get advice, input, support, constructive criticism, etc! I will be off and on throughout the weekend and will post how my day was at the end of each day!

Thank you guys in advance for any help you can offer whether it be just talking to me, advice, your experiences, prayers, keeping me in your thoughts, etc. Whatever the case may be. I thank each and everyone of you!



You can do this, you seem well prepared in advance with the supplements and meds. Neurontin works great I've discovered. I took 1200mg last night, and it was too much for my current needs, I slept almost 15 hours! I looked at clock, it said 5:00, and I thought it was 5AM! I was shocked when I realized how long I slept. I missed a 4th picnic that the apt complex I am living in was hosting (they have a little park area with picnic tables and BBQ grills), I paid in advance for it, so they could buy my share of food and whatnot (was going to skip any alcohol tho). Anyway, I detoxed from sub for almost a month (2mg jump, easy peasy comapred to 24mg!), then broke arm, and now am struggling with oxycodone tapering, but it's rather minor compared to what youre doing (40mg a day was what I started out on, instant release 10mg Percs). But previous to the Neurontin, I'd get about 6-7 hours or so sleep, then wake up sweaty from Perc wearing off. I woke up after my mini Rip Van Winkle, Neurontin induced snooze, with no night sweats, not as much pain.

One thing I recently read about Neurontin, that I'm passing on as a tip, is not to take a large dose like 4000mg, or even 2000mg at once. Reason being, the more taken at once, the less bioavailbility it has, and that increases relative to dose, so its better to take, say 600-900mg at a time (if they are 600s, break one in half), and wait an hour or so before taking more, and it will build up in your system (for example, if you plan to sleep at 10PM, maybe start dosing at 7PM), otherwise you'll just piss almost half of it out if you take a very large dose. Also, tolerance to it can go up relatively fast, so use it sparingly until acute withdrawals hit. Between that and Seroquel, you WILL sleep even during acute withdrawals. You might want to set extra alarms or have your wife splash cold water on your face (lol) if you use Seroquel and Neurontin at same time for sleep, and, you will wake up in a fog, so have a cup of coffee ready in morning to help clear the thick layers of med cobwebs from your head, if you are going to be working through this (but go easy on it as it can increase WD-related anxiety). I wish you could get time off work. Do you have any sick days or vacation days you can use if it seems at any point, like you can't function well enough to get by at work during acute stage?


As far as exercise, it helps a lot, especially with PAWS, but you won't feel like doing it during acute stages. But even walking a few blocks can help, and it will reinforce the habit of regular exercise.

EDIT: Please excuse any weird typos (I corrected "apt complex I was living in" (I still am.. lol, sorta), maybe missed some others. Still coming out of fog from sleeping so long. Disorientated.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:46 pm 
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johnny_ikon wrote:
I read a thread on another forum by a doctor specializing in CTs from extremely high opiate levels, such as 150 Mg/day of Methadone (which probably makes your jump look a lot easier in comparison).

One of the thing that caught my eye in this thread was how the doctor put his CT patients on IV nutrients for the first week. Here's the post I'm talking about, maybe there's something in here that will help you out:

http://www.medhelp.org/tags/health_page/45/Addiction/Detox-and-Nutrition-for-Opiate-Methadone-Addicts?hp_id=55

Good luck, brother.

-- ji

Edit; Personally I hate Seroquil, but when I went 72 hours Methadone-free prior to going on Subs, it was Godsend. Completely vegged me out, which was just what I needed.


Great link, JI! Thanks for posting it. I found it helpful to read too, even though I'm not facing a high jump from anything long acting in the opiod dept.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:52 pm 
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Oh, one minor thing you might want to add to list of supplements and meds. Rolaids or Tums. You might get uncomfortable heartburn occasionally, from all the meds, and need to eat a couple in the morning, especially before a coffee if you take any, which would aggravate it even more. Pepto Bismol helps too.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:35 pm 
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m0jitoMan wrote:
I'm curious wolf, are you on sub maintanence, or have you recently jumped?? What you said makes perfect sense. I know that physiological changes occur during longerterm opiode use. Thats when you begin to see hairloss, endocrine problems and cns problems ect.

I'm in maintenance phase. Started my journey with Sub about 3-months ago, locked into a 12mg dose after some minor dose tinkering during first week.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:33 am 
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Hey bud stay strong. I know its almost impossible im now on my 3rd day of subs after 15years of massively abusing pills. I was eating 5 80mg oxys 4 to 6 times a day plus 3 to 6 30mg ir oxys 4 to 5 times a day and it wasnt making a dent in how I felt. Finally I just got so sick of it I had to stop. Honestly the worst part for me is the rage I feel all the time. Without opiates to make me feel calm and relaxed im ready to fight at the stupidest shit. I really hope this passes but at 38 I cant even recall my personality or how I delt with daily life b4 them. Its like im waking up from a bad dream to find out I have an ex wife a new wife pets a new house car ect and none of my current life feels right.
Well enuff of my ramblings I really hope and wish u the best.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:54 am 
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billy33 wrote:
Hey bud stay strong. I know its almost impossible im now on my 3rd day of subs after 15years of massively abusing pills. I was eating 5 80mg oxys 4 to 6 times a day plus 3 to 6 30mg ir oxys 4 to 5 times a day and it wasnt making a dent in how I felt. Finally I just got so sick of it I had to stop. Honestly the worst part for me is the rage I feel all the time. Without opiates to make me feel calm and relaxed im ready to fight at the stupidest shit. I really hope this passes but at 38 I cant even recall my personality or how I delt with daily life b4 them. Its like im waking up from a bad dream to find out I have an ex wife a new wife pets a new house car ect and none of my current life feels right.
Well enuff of my ramblings I really hope and wish u the best.



Sorry, couldn't help this one after reading what I bolded :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aca77Je7Jms

You'll feel thing are alright, once things stabilize for you. I think many people experience some "depersonalization" or dissociative-like effects while going through WDs.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:36 am 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:


Sorry, couldn't help this one after reading what I bolded :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aca77Je7Jms

You'll feel thing are alright, once things stabilize for you. I think many people experience some "depersonalization" or dissociative-like effects while going through WDs.


HA boop! I thought of the exact same song!! I also know the "otherworldly" feeling...on my Day 3 or 4 I was looking around my house like "wtf?" and "remembered" I'd never lived here "clean"...ever! Luckily now that most (or all?) of the fog has lifted, I'm pretty happy with where I "find myself" (and btw I am also "finding my "self"). :D

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:42 am 
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ButterFLYING! wrote:
no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:


Sorry, couldn't help this one after reading what I bolded :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aca77Je7Jms

You'll feel thing are alright, once things stabilize for you. I think many people experience some "depersonalization" or dissociative-like effects while going through WDs.


HA boop! I thought of the exact same song!! I also know the "otherworldly" feeling...on my Day 3 or 4 I was looking around my house like "wtf?" and "remembered" I'd never lived here "clean"...ever! Luckily now that most (or all?) of the fog has lifted, I'm pretty happy with where I "find myself" (and btw I am also "finding my "self"). :D



HA! great minds think alike. And birds of a feather. Or butterfly wings, if you prefer. Most butterflies are resting now, but the Luna(tic) moths are out to hang with ya.

Image

A Luna moth landed on my arm once, when I was out on a friend's balcony at night. It waved it's antennas in a way that seemed friendly, and I had a feeling of instant bonding. It was a very memorable experience. I had an overwhelming, unearthly feeling during the encounter, as if it was a sign, like the semi-famous Carl Jung story of the Golden Scarab Beetle (]http://jungcurrents.com/synchronicity-the-golden-scarab-beetle). They only live about a week after emerging from cocoon, and die right after mating. Maybe it wanted to spend last moments with me (I know, very irrational thinking, but something about it defied rationality, and so was impossible to completely dismiss it as a random occurrence).


I'm sure you'll find some buried treasures in the process of "finding yourself". Arrr, matey, booty that would rival any pirate's, dirt covered horde.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:08 am 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
HA! great minds think alike. And birds of a feather. Or butterfly wings, if you prefer. Most butterflies are resting now, but the Luna(tic) moths are out to hang with ya.

A Luna moth landed on my arm once, when I was out on a friend's balcony at night. It waved it's antennas in a way that seemed friendly, and I had a feeling of instant bonding.

I'm sure you'll find some buried treasures in the process of "finding yourself". Arrr, matey, booty that would rival any pirate's, dirt covered horde.


Hey boop- I like how your late night and my early morning "connect" sometimes!(Now get some sleep for heavens sake! lol)
Wow- that is the most beautiful "moth" I've ever seen! I think we should adopt her into my BF family!
Cool about your bonding experience- nothing is an "accident" IMO. I also have a "butterflies" story I'll share a bit of later on my own thread so as not to continue "highjacking" other's threads which I tend to do from time to time (lol) - Btw, while unearthing those "treasures", I know I still have quite a bit of "dirt" to sift through which is hard work. I would not have been drugging myself for 8 years if my "self" was all clean and shiney...but I will get there! Just enjoying those "treasures" that are surfacing all on their own right now. :D

Sorry for the off topic convo. csgo- rooting for you, and hope you are centered and strong today!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:09 pm 
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Man, just the title of your thread made me feel like a chicken shit in comparison to what I jumped from! But, I completely understand from experience, it is much better to kick a monster run in the comfort of your own home as opposed to those rock hard jail bunks, repulsive food, noise, and the utter lack of compassion and support. So, you are doing the right thing! I have kicked some gnarly runs before, as well, and it is absolutely possible. Not fun, but possible, once your mind is made up. I wish you all the best and encourage you to post the good, bad and ugly. There are amazing people here (as I'm sure you have already figured out) that offer nothing but encouragement and support.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:36 pm 
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Hi csgo, looking forward to your day 2 update. Hope you're hanging in there.

-- ji

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:42 pm 
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I share Ji's sentiments. You are in my thoughts.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:15 pm 
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Long time no post. I got my probation officer to come to a agreement with my primary care provider to assist me on getting of the subs much faster. Although i still have to jump from 24mg its going to hopefully be a little easier. My doctor said she will work with me anytime day or night to get through this. Currently i am on day 4 and i have somewhat of a negative RLS feeling going on and a little tired but other then that i feel great! Also i had to have surgery recently so i am excused graciously from work for the next two week!

Currently my Dr. has me prescribed 200mg Gabapentin 2x in the morning and 2x before bed for RLS and body of lead.

1mg Ativan x2 daily.
10mg Ambien to help with sleep and to only take if needed.
15mg Adderall IR / 30mg Adderall XR I have ADHD and ADD but these help with motivation and energy but i use VERY sparingly.

And of course i am still sticking to my meds i posted before. Once day 5 is here i will return with a update. I am sorry i left high and dry but at 24mg without my doctors help would have been stupid especially when she was offering it to me.

Till Tomorrow!

Thank you EVERYONE for all the support i WILL get through this!


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