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 Post subject: I STOPPED!!!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:38 pm 
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OKAY, ive been on and off suboxone three times. The first and second time i was on it for 1+ year, then tapered off, then stopped. THe first two times was absolutely terrible. IT was almost full blown OXY WD's, so the first time i felt I had no where else to go and attempted suicide (very stupid). I realized after i woke up in the hospital with my family around me crying that i needed to try this again, and really do it. So i went to rehab, three days a week for a year, then personal meetings with my amazing counselor. after about a year we decided to taper me off. SO i went from 8mg - 4mg- 2mg-1mg- .5mgs. Then i was off, well this was bad, my counselor was on maternity leave and i felt so overwhelmed I called my doc and begged for another try becase i was so sick. This last time, i was on it for about 10 months. My doctor was back, and the whole ten months I was on about 1mg (seems low but its not, this is strong stuff). So just recently over the past oh, three weeks, I kept cutting the 1mg in half. I was basically down to crumbs, I mean specs of a 2mg pill. NOw i didnt do the liquified version, I just trusted that i could keep track of these crumbs. Each step I cut my dose in half, was about a 1 1/2 days of minor aches, diarreha, and depression. My last dose was sunday june 14th 2009 with my dose being about .125 of a mg. ANd today was just rubbing my finger on the bottom of the bottle to get the imaginary powder my mind thought would be there to rub under my tounge. Now, today at work, I WAS achey, I DID HAVE intestinal issues, and i craved only a bit. So, day #1 without suboxone down, tomorrow will be better im sure, because the low dose i was on really wasnt much when you compare it to a 2mg, or heck, an 8! I JUST WANT TO SAY I WAS IN YOUR PLACE, I WAS TERRIFIED OF STOPPING, I CRYED, I WANTED TO DIE, AND I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT STOPPING. IT WASN'T A PIECE OF CAKE FOR THE FIRST TWO DAYS OF EACH DOSE DECREASE, BUT IF YOU DO IT IN SMALL INCREMENTS, OVER A FEW MONTHS, I PROMISE, AS LONG AS YOU ARE TRULY READY TO LIVE YOUR LIFE WITHOUT BEING A SLAVE TO THE SMALL ORANGE PILL, IT WILL WORK. Ill keep updating as the days go if people want me too, but i can honesty say, I HAVE ENERY, I LIFTED WEIGHTS, I LAUGHED!! AND IT WAS BECAUSE I WAS HAPPY, NOT THE SUBOXONE!!!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: I STOPPED!!!!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:41 pm 
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aggrorollintrs wrote:
I PROMISE, AS LONG AS YOU ARE TRULY READY TO LIVE YOUR LIFE WITHOUT BEING A SLAVE TO THE SMALL ORANGE PILL, IT WILL WORK.


I'm glad you've had more success tapering this time around and we'd certainly like to hear how you're doing, we do have a few rules here on Suboxforum though one of which is respecting the choices of others. Implying that those who've chosen medication assisted recovery are "slaves" is not accpetable here. In my personal opinion it's not realistic either, we were slaves to opiate dependance and having to find a way out is sometimes inconvenient yes but I know at least for me those are the cards I was dealt. Even having to stay on medication indefinately beats the bejesus out of dying from opiate dependance in my book. Addicts who've chosen the medication route are no more slaves to medication than the diabetic is to insulin. You're certainly entitled to your own opinion as long as you can do so in a way that does not demean those who've chosen a different form of treatment. We look forward to hearing how you're doing :) and congrats on the taper!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:16 pm 
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im TRULY SORRY! I know suboxone saved my life. But i got to the point that it still felt like i NEEDED it to get through the day. I do need my prozac, and my welbutrin. But becasue of the immediacy of the suboxone and the build up that the other meds need, to ME, it still felt like a crutch . I only meant to say that I felt like a slave to the orange pill. I thank god and the creators of suboxone for saving my life and my relationship with my fiance.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:44 pm 
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Please keep updating...I know I post alot and am not even the addict but my kid is and I tell you, without this site I'd be f---ed. Her doctor is no help and I get all my advice here and read taper stories all the time, I search them out. I hate to be repetitive so if you want, go find my other posts and you'll know her story. I have her down to 1.5 mgs and she has only been on total for 3 weeks this wednesday. Some people tell me that she may jump easy since she hasn't been on long. I hope so. She vows to never touch another opiate and I know, I do the eye roll thing too guys, but I have to hope for the best and YES if something bad happens you bet ya, she will go right back on sub. I am not letting go of the doc even though he is not too informative, at least through him I can keep the little orange pills that no doubt SAVED her. I plan to listen to her body and drop depending on how she does. so far so good, but yes, please keep updating about your progress. And anyone else who reads this, I want as many taper stories as I can get. Along with the Sub, you guys are lifesavers.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:26 am 
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momofateenaddict

Your teen needs to be on suboxone longer than 3 or 4 weeks. She will almost guaranteed relapse. And trust me, relapse is not something you want to leave to will power at her stage of treatment. Im no doctor,just an informed patient. As the doctor will 'probably' tell you, your teen must get her life back together which usually takes at LEAST 6 months for ANY addict. I know how parents want so much to trust their teenager, my parents were the same way, I ended up relapsing and falling much harder into my addiction after my parents let me decide that I dont need treatment/counseling anymore. I am 22 and am very aware of how teenagers are. It is almost impossible to change friends. If your teen is hanging out with ANYONE who uses ANY kind of drugs than she absolutely must realize that she is not in control, hence the addiction. Therefor if one day that friend offers a drug, or even some cute boy at a party offers her a drug she will have a heck of a time resisting. I would say it is much safer to be on suboxone throughout the teenage years just based on the fact that teenagers alone cannot control themselves amongst their peers, let alone an already established addict. I dont mean to preach this is just the advice I would give you.-Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:01 am 
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day two, 4:58 a.m. No suboxone today either. STill pretty early as im about to head off for work. But i feel good so far. Little jittery, but thats about it. Ill let yall know after i get off work how the day has been.

Momofateenaddict. I was on suboxone for a minimum of a year (the first time) ..... if you think, if your daughter/son was addicted for a year, thats about a year of habits you gotta break. ITs only my opinion, but I had 4+ years of bad habits and friends to get rid of. Ill post after work. But i feel good. So far....


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:57 am 
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Man I know you guys, how hard it is gonna be. She has dumped the druggie friends and the heroin dealers are in jail, they were being indicted anyways but a few well place phone calls and some follow up assured me. I also know because she tells me if she wants it she can still get it. I have no plan to stop taking her to the doctor who will drug test her and she has no plans to stop counseling. No I don't trust her any farther than I can spit and like most addicts she is a born liar. To herself and others. I just feel I gotta give her the chance to be drug free, she is so young. She has the strong will power to guit and I know, I know, that may not be enough otherwise there just wouldn't be any addicts. I have taken every safe guard I can, changing her phone, dumping all her numbers, but I know if she wants to use she will. She tells me and she cries and hugs me tight and tells me she is done that it is by far the dumbest thing she has ever did. She seems so sincere bless her young dumb heart and I gotta give her one chance. If she slips up, it's back on sub. She says she likes the feeling of being normal that sub gives her and she wants to be normal forever. She has no cravings yet but I know, that is still in front of us just now at 1.5 mgs. Her boyfriend did not know the extent of her problem and know that he does he is being supportive and helpful and won't allow any users near her. They don't go to parties. We pretty much got her on lock down. I am afraid to keep her on sub long term but I will if I have to because it sure beats the living hell out of the ups and the downs and the being dopesick. That is what she could not stand. She is a beautiful girl and says she does not want to be all ate up and toothless and old looking at 25 and I tell her lots of horror stories about that kind of thing to try and scare her. I have told her what to expect when we get to the low low doses like the depression and anxiety and mood swings and she says she is prepared and she will come to me when it gets bad and I told her I will hold her all through the night. I am keeping her on her anti-depressant and her low dose ambien and I have a long list of other drugs that will help her if she has bad withdraw. I have to believe in my heart of hearts that she can beat this thing. I know the odds are not in her favor, God how I know this. I've warned her about her tolerance being low again when she gets opiate free and have scared her into believing relapse can and could kill her. I gotta try guys and if relapse happens there will be suboxone waiting in the wings. Please keep writing. As horrible as it is to say, money is an issue. I am a single Mom with a low pay job and although her medicaid pays for the pills she is off of medicaid in two months. I had no luck with Reckitts help program too long of a waiting list and she would have to be off the medicaid before they could help anyway. Just another shitty spot between a rock and a hard place.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:12 am 
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momofateenaddict:
It's my opinion that you should keep your daughter on longer than a few weeks. She is at a time in her life where you learn to live, and she learned drug addiction. I tried to quit drugs several times when I was a teenager, and i'm finally sober at age 26, and if I got off today, i'd be using by friday. THAT'S A YEAR INTO SUBOXONE TREATMENT.
GOOD LUCK
-JayJay


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:40 am 
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yes you are right, she did learn drug addiction. Now she needs to learn something else. If she can't kick it and change her life and she is taking good steps, then back on sub she will be. I will give her this one chance and see what happens. No I don't expect her to rush right out an OD. I warned her about tolerance. If anything happens she will pick up a perc 10 and then her doc will drug test her as he does and then she will go back on sub. I know I am rushing her and she is rushing herself but she tells me she wants no drug, not even an aspirin ever again. Gotta give her ONE chance. I do understand addiction, I was once an addict myself and got lucky enough to realize hey this is gonna kill me and stopped. Not fun. She is so far so good and not even any restless legs or sleepless night. Gonna take it one day at a time. Thank you for your response. Every little bit helps, even when I don't hear what I want to hear. Only a couple people have told me she can DO IT!! Most tell me to give her more time. I've got my eyes and ears open!!! I am ever hopeful that her short term real addiction will play a big factor in a short term recovery so to speak. She does realize that once an addict always an addict. I tell her everything I learn here and she listens and hangs on every word.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:31 pm 
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momofateen -

I am scared for you and your daughter, just because I know how hard it is for teens/young adults to really think through the consequences of their actions. It's not their fault, it's just that their brains aren't finished developing yet so they are much more likely to do something impulsive or reckless (a good example is teens driving and texting at the same time).

On the other hand, she has you for support, she's in therapy, she's seeing a doctor who will drug-test her, and her boyfriend seems supportive. And you are in a hard spot financially, so I understand why you are making the choices you are making. It sucks that you have to choose between paying your rent and keeping your kid safe from drugs, but until Obama fixes this insurance situation, it is what it is. :?

I think it's very good that you are willing to put her right back on Suboxone if she relapses. I know you'll be watching her like a hawk. And keep trying to get the message through about her tolerance dropping. That is the scariest thing, in my mind. The fact that she might come into contact with heroin and not realize how easily she could overdose. When I think of all the stupid-ass shit I did when I was 19...shudder. And junkies don't like to see other junkies get clean, so if she runs into old friends she needs to just get out of there.

I don't have any answers for you; I wish to god I did. I have a little daughter of my own and when I think about how you must be feeling my heart just breaks. I never got into heroin but I lost friends to it and it's the most illogical, evil drug I've ever seen (well, that and meth). The smartest, funniest, most talented and beautiful people I knew got sucked in by that drug and became twisted carictures of themselves. Most of them got clean many times and went back to heroin repeatedly. It's hard to understand, even for me, and I was addicted to pills. It's like once someone crosses that line it's almost impossible to put the boundary back in place again.

You said you have your daughter on lockdown, and that's understandable. I would say try to get her involved in something positive if you can - so she has that structure and something to fill her time. Boredom is her enemy. A summer class, some volunteer work, anything that helps her realize she has a reason to exist outside of herself.

Keep posting here and you can always pm me if you want.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Agreed about boredom that was by far my biggest trigger (even though I don't really believe in triggers because everything made me want to use) The less time she spends alone with her thoughts the better or at least that's how it was for me. If I were you I'd really encourage her to get into something that she enjoys or used to enjoy and try to keep her as busy as possible. I am encouraged that you're willing to put her back on Suboxone if she does relapse and please don't take that the wrong way I'm really hoping it won't have to come down to that but relapses can get very ugly in a hurry in my experience and as Diary said I underestimated how low my tolerance was, O.D.ed and ended up unconcious at the wheel and woke up in the E.R. The sooner you intervene during a relapse the better and with Sub you can hopefully get her back on track before it's too late. Good luck with the taper, I hope things continue to go well and I'll be thinking about you guys :D

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:59 pm 
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2:56 p.m. tuesday june 16, 2009. Work was fine, got pretty bored towards the end of the day. Find it hard to focus, and just a little back pain. BUt all in all, i feel amazing. Been off suboxone for almost 48 hours and no problems yet. Things can only get better from here. Like I said, I've been on suboxone a total of about three years, which is 2 years short of how long i used. I believe that you almost need as many years of suboxone treatment as u had years of using, seems to make sense since you need to break those habits. The only problem I really have is sleeping kinda sucks, and i forgot how the cravings feel, but it is in no way terribles W/D's. They are at best, a head cold.....


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:38 pm 
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At 48 hours you can't yet gauge how tough withdrawals will be. Suboxone has a really long half life.

You can't expect to overcome several years of addiction with a simple few days of back pain. If it was that easy there would be no junkies on this earth.

I'm not trying to demoralise you here, hell I wish you be done with it tomorrow with absolutely no pain, but my experience is that the easier you think it will be, the harder it seems to get. So prepare for the worst, then anything you get will be better than you planned for.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:42 pm 
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Sub withdrawal for me didn't start until 72 hours later, so you may not be out of the woods yet. I agree with the last post in that your mind can really make it worse than it is.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:03 pm 
MOM - You and your daughter have been through hell the past few weeks or so, huh? You've already made up your mind on the game plan for your daughter. You're doing a quick taper, and you're rolling the dice. She can be on a 6 month taper and you would still be rolling those same dice. You've done your research, you've educated yourself, you're doing a fine job. From what I've read, it sounds like you and your daughter have those communication lines open, right? Just keep them WIDE open. Tell your to be honest with herself, honest with you, and to talk about it.

I'm sure you already know this, but the chances of your daughter never doing a drug again for the rest of her life are very, very slim. Statistically, she will relapse. She's so young.

Mom, you're doing a great job. You really are. I'm sure you're exhausted! We could give you advice all day, but you need to do what you feel is right.

Take care, mom. Keep us posted.

Patrick


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:15 pm 
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AGGRO

Very glad to hear you had a fairly decent day. That is encouraging. Sorry i kinda took over your thread a little bit freaking for my kid but yeah, well, I know you understand. I hope she does as good as you and yes, please keep me posted.

Patrick, yes I am rolling the dice....Matt and Diary, yeah its been tough and will get tougher, she had a kind of bad day today on her 2nd day of 1.5. I know her chances of relapse are like 99 percent. I am not gonna tell her that though. I just warn her about the danger of tolerance and will keep the eagle eye on her. I TELL HER you can do this you can do this!! Yes, we have good communication and all things, doc, sub, therapy will stay in place.

Yes it sucks when I have to choose between keeping her clean and not only rent but in my case groceries. We have been living off rice, mac n cheese and ramen noodles. YUCK!!! Yes, she needs to get busy as soon as she feels good enough for it...you may have forgotten the whole hep C issue...talk about some poison medicine and some side effects. Pain, she lost nearly all her hair...but she is feeling better since she had to stop that treatment....She went from 94 lbs up to 101!!! but for the love of God, add heroin to that mix?? Jesus.

I know we all have to go our own road and yes she is young dumb and not fully aware of her actions vs. the consequence. If she continues to feel really shitty for more than a week I will bump her back up but I'm sure feeling somewhat shitty goes with the territory and hopefully she will level off. She just got a little aggravated and has a headache. Tomorrow is counseling and Friday is doctor visit. I'll try to shut up until then. I know if Suboxdoc has been following any of my posts he is sadly shaking his head. and yes, my biggest fear is some awful relapse that leaves me daughterless and then i know he will say I told you so I told you so. Not in a mean way of course because he is wonderful but he has all ready told me not to make the jump yet but I don't know what else to do. I can afford about one more month. I told ya in some past post her rich Dad who lives in his fancy house and drives his fancy cars won't help based on the fact that she did this to herself...and when i asked him what I should do, what to do if she relapses he said well i guess we'll go to a fucking funeral and hung up on me. That asshole. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR YOUR KIND WORDS AND ADVICE.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:37 pm 
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Id like to say that that helps. BUt really, if the mind is such a powerful thing, then the more positive I think, the better I will feel. Ive already done this twice. I know exactly what day one, and day two feel like. Not to mention i was down to a sixteenth of a milligram. NOt a sixteenth of a 2mg, but 1mg. Anyways, im determined this is the last time, and Im going to make it stick, it would have to be pretty bad for me to go back on suboxone. I still feel decent. NOt 100%, but about 60%. Tomorrow will be better. I promise... And anyways, ever think of the half-life of 1/16? yeah....


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:12 pm 
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I skimmed, I admit... I haven't read the detail of every post. Agg... congrats, and good luck. Do keep in touch. I do NOT want anyone to relapse, so please don't interpret what I am about to say in that way-- I don't know anyone who has kicked opiate dependence without either Suboxone (staying on it, that is) or very intensive residential treatment followed by meetings that don't end. So it you are clean in a year, come back and tell me about it-- and I DON'T mean that like some kind of challenge or 'I be you won't' comment... Every time I have heard about someone 'kicking opiates' I find that the person is drinking like crazy, or on Kratom, or jumping from bed to bed in a sex addiction-- replacing one drug of choice for another. But it sounds like you did it the way I would recommend-- stay on it long enough to allow for some real personality changes, for example.

Teen addict mom, understand that it really is not about strength. A 'simple minded person' would probably have the best chance of recovery, as it is the complicated rationalization that keeps a person sick. There is a saying in treatment centers: nobody is too dumb for recovery, but some people are too smart for it! Some people who COULDN'T quit using include Ernest Hemingway, the author who died of alcoholism, a number of brilliant musicians in the 60's (plus Cobain from Nirvana more recently), Sigmund Freud, the psycho-analyst/cocaine addict; and a number of very bright doctors that I have known over the years.

I try to avoid statements like 'he is tough enough to stop', as that implies that toughness helps... when in reality I think the best thing to help one recover is humility-- the ability to see one's mistakes and admit to them, and the ability to open one's mind to other ideas and to change.

I agree with the others that a few weeks of Suboxone is not enough. In studies looking at outcomes, those taking it for less than 6 months just don't do well. As for cost, you will spend much more money from a couple days of using than you will from a month of one suboxone per day.

Good luck you guys,

Jeff


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:39 pm 
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uggg what makes me angry the most is how sooo many people in this country must decide between treatment or rent. What ever happened to Obama fixing the healthcare industry, or even making an attempt?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:10 am 
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I thought one of the main reasons for the approval of Suboxone was to manage the ridiculous number of opiate addicts who don't have access to treatment? I certainly understand pharm is a buisness like any other and that some of the money made by R&B is going to pay for research but seriously. I don't know about you guys but when I finally got my butt into treatment money wasn't something I had been managing well, I was actually one seriously broke mofo. If it weren't for insurance I have no doubt I would still be using dope. I hope if and when Sub goes generic more people will have it as an option and not to get into my political beliefs but all things considered I don't think universal health care would be one of the second signs of the apocolypse that some would have us believe.

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