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 Post subject: STOP SUBOXONE
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:26 pm 
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I DON'T CARE HOW YOU DO IT OR WHY YOU CARE ABOUT THIS MESSAGE BUT I URGE EVERY USER OUT THERE ... TO STOP SUBOXONE
IT IS NOT A MIRACLE IT REPLACES ONE ADDICTION FOR ANOTHER WITH LONG TERM EFFECTS. LONG TERM PAWS HORRIBLE SIDE EFFECTS PLEASE TALK WITH YOU DOCTOR FOR GOD SAKE I HOPE YOU LISTEN IN CHRIST I PRAY FOR ALL IN ADDICTION.
SUBOXONE IS EVIL LONG TERM REMEMBER THIS


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:06 pm 
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Kathleen, with all due respect, you don't know what you are talking about. You may have personally had a bad experience with buprenorphine (Suboxone) and for that I am sorry. However, to make a statement like that, you are talking about everyone, and saying everyone shouldn't use Suboxone, and that's just not true. If I had a son, daughter, wife, mother, etc. and they were opiate dependent, I would rather them get on Suboxone for a while and eventually detox from it, rather than stay on heroin/oxy etc. For many people, it IS a miracle drug, and has helped thousands get off of opiates for good. Apparently it has not for you, and I'm sorry for that.


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 Post subject: Re: STOP SUBOXONE
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:20 pm 
Kathleend wrote:
I DON'T CARE HOW YOU DO IT OR WHY YOU CARE ABOUT THIS MESSAGE BUT I URGE EVERY USER OUT THERE ... TO STOP SUBOXONE
IT IS NOT A MIRACLE IT REPLACES ONE ADDICTION FOR ANOTHER WITH LONG TERM EFFECTS. LONG TERM PAWS HORRIBLE SIDE EFFECTS PLEASE TALK WITH YOU DOCTOR FOR GOD SAKE I HOPE YOU LISTEN IN CHRIST I PRAY FOR ALL IN ADDICTION.
SUBOXONE IS EVIL LONG TERM REMEMBER THIS


Sounds like a living example of The Program to me.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:09 am 
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Sounds to me like Kathleend may have just got off of Suboxone or she jumped from a high dose and she's been off for a while and she's still suffering PAWS. I went through a massive hating Suboxone phase when I quit.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:16 am 
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Sounds like ... an idiot. Can I say that as a mod?

Sorry, I'm just losing a bit of patience in responding to these claims.

What about the drug that caused you to get on Suboxone in the first place? The drug that started the whole nightmare? Why do we get so many people go "Suboxone SUCKS IT'S THE WORST"... yet they always forget to mention the drug that made them require Suboxone in the first place.

Maybe the reason for my impatience, is I had this attitude in my early 20's. And I kept relapsing. Looking back, my hatred for Suboxone was a way to keep myself in addiction. Heroin was fine, but that buprenorphine was EVIL, brain damaging stuff!

Such BS. I was just sick and didn't want to get clean.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:46 am 
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some christian's ' don't understand how God works? i wish they would stop it? kathle- don't mess it up!!
and sorry you may have made a big mistake on how you were taking your suboxone.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:25 am 
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i am relatively new on this forum as a poster, have read it for a long time, but haven't read something as obnoxious as this yet. Notice how she offers no other information. Is she in recovery? Has she ever been on Suboxone? Has she even ever abused drugs? I am thinking no. Otherwise, she would realize everyones road to recovery is different. Suboxone is a LIFESAVING drug. Yes it does have some side effects, but what drug doesn't? (look at chemo, it is a lifesaving drug, but has major side effects, far worse that sub.) I am just appauld at how increadably irresponsible this womans post is. She could have just in effect, killed someone. If they are on the fence about starting sub and read her post...may have scared them off. And addiction, especially to painkillers/opiates is DEADLY, and you never know when an over dose is going to happen.
She is an idiot, an irresponsible idiot. I can't even put my thoughts into any more words right now... arggggg.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:12 am 
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Tear and Mrssky, I am in agreement with you both!

Kathleen, what you have posted here is extremely stupid and for some could be dangerous. Anyone on the fence about seeking help with Suboxone should disregard her message. Just read thru the posts here and you will see how many addicts Sub has helped to save. There are also many that have correctly tapered off sub that are doing just fine.

Sub is not what has caused the op to post what she did. It is her innability to accept responsibility for her addiction. Sub is not a cure all when it comes to opiate addiction but it can be a very useful tool. You still have to put in the work but sub can make it much easier to do the work that needs to be done.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:35 am 
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To be clear, I do NOT agree with what Kathleend said, it was highly irresponsible, no doubt about it.

But I do know how hard it is to think straight when your brain is wrapped around a telephone pole after hitting it doing 100mph.....aka, jumping off long term Suboxone use from a high dose. It's especially hard to think clearly when your Suboxone doctor has also told you that your wd, even after jumping from a high dose, will be over in 3 days.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:17 pm 
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For some additions, long term maintenance of Suboxone may work. But to go from a 4mg to 0 is extremely hard as Suboxone is very powerful; longer PAWS, 37 1/2 half life- read those posts. You can find factual information that PAWS can last up to 18 months as it could take that long for your brain receptors to heal. The longer you are on it the harder it is. Long term effects of Suboxone should be discussed when long term use is recommended. Alternatively, proper counseling after 5 days of Suboxone offers a life with out any medication when you are ready to be free of any addition. As I said, and I maintain, it is trading one addition for another, not a miracle drug.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:28 pm 
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Through a lot of my addiction I was looking for some kind of easy cure, magic bullet that could do all the hard work for me. Ibogaine, naltrexone, Suboxone, whatever, something external to cure my addiction. Just like I searched out drugs to cure my life years earlier. When I heard about buprenorphine from another addict, I had high hopes. Secretly I hoped to get a bit high from it too.

My first prescribing doctor didn't disclose to me the reality that buprenorphine is physically addictive, and that it wouldn't fix my addiction. That I'd have to work on myself. I had this naive belief that taking Subutex would do the work for me, and nobody told me otherwise. Subutex was only recently released for addicts, and I was about 19. Not much was known, if anything, about coming off it.

I was only using heroin once every couple of days, and had only experienced mild withdrawals.

I was put on 4mg, and I was stoned. BONUS! This cures my addiction, and makes me feel stoned! :D Talk about a magic bullet. My doc saw me a week later, noticed how droopy my face was, and dropped me down to 2mg. Bummer. But it still made me feel okay, and I didn't want to use as much. I stayed on that dose for about 4 months, trying to use just once in that time.

When I started to reduce, things started to get really rough. The moment I got to 1mg, cravings for heroin returned, just like before. WTF? Suboxone should have made these go away! Then when I jumped off 1mg, as I was advised to, I was totally shell shocked. The withdrawals I felt were a lot stronger than I'd ever experienced. Only now I can see that when I was using heroin, I had opioids in me maybe 8 hours every 2 days. I had buprenorphine in my brain every hour of every day! Of course I would be more dependent!

After that experience I turned on buprenorphine, the doctors that prescribe it, the company that makes it. I was like "don't go on that shit! It was worse than heroin!" Ironically, the next time I went to a doctor for help, I asked for methadone instead, hoping it would be the real magic bullet. :lol:

So I can kinda understand why some people might be angry at Suboxone. But for me, buprenorphine wasn't the problem! The problem was my unrealistic expectations, my immaturity, and the lack of real information out there. If my doctor had told me the full story, I would have still taken it, but I wouldn't have been able to blame the drug or my doctor for my situation.

A few months back, I watched a psychiatrist on Dr. Phil call Suboxone a "cure for addiction". It makes me wonder how many people may have watched that, signed up believing it, and ended up with an attitude like the OP. ?

If people didn't have any unrealistic expectations about Suboxone, or were disclosed with the realities before they signed up, I doubt we'd have all these kinda posts popping up like they are. People would actually realise that they need to use their time on Suboxone to make their own miracle, if you get what I mean?

This is more like a diary entry than a post. :shock: Well, it helped me :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:15 pm 
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I get what your saying tear and to an extent agree. Obviously there are drs out there prescribing sub that have no idea what it is and that it has to be tapered just like any opiate. However I feel the anger is misplaced, be mad at your Dr, be mad at yourself for not doing your homework but to get mad at a medication is just silly and pointless. I am not saying I don't understand how some people get there, I do but they need to look at where there anger should be focused.

The problem with your initial post Kathleen is that you posted no facts about why you had the trouble you did. Had you posted that you jumped off at 4mg then readers could see why you've had issues. Sub needs to be tapered just like any opiate and failing to do so correctly will result in long drawn out withdrawls. Not posting that information is not factually portraying your experience with sub and could lead a newcomer or person on the fence to believe that is an inevitable fate if they choose sub. With a proper taper most of your problems could have probably been avoided.

Also it is not trading addictions, trading dependancy? Yes, you will still be dependant on opiates but addiction is not the same thing. Furthermore, PAWS can last up to 18 months no matter which opiate you detox from. This is not unique to sub. There are many factors that contribute to this and it's almost impossible to guage the outcome one will face coming off of any opiate.

I wish you success in your future recovery, and holding onto all this misplaced anger will not help you in anyway. What's done is done, all we can do is try to move forward and make the best of what we have.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:33 pm 
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Kathleend wrote:
For some additions, long term maintenance of Suboxone may work. But to go from a 4mg to 0 is extremely hard as Suboxone is very powerful; longer PAWS, 37 1/2 half life- read those posts. You can find factual information that PAWS can last up to 18 months as it could take that long for your brain receptors to heal. The longer you are on it the harder it is. Long term effects of Suboxone should be discussed when long term use is recommended. Alternatively, proper counseling after 5 days of Suboxone offers a life with out any medication when you are ready to be free of any addition. As I said, and I maintain, it is trading one addition for another, not a miracle drug.


Yes, going from 4 mg to 0 IS extremely hard, especially since that is the absolute wrong way to get off Suboxone. Why did you put yourself through that, Kathleend? If you get off Sub the wrong way and it ends up being hard, you should be neither surprised nor upset to where you are directing everyone else to stop taking it and perhaps scaring people for no reason in the process. I got off Sub after nearly six years and jumping off was a piece of cake. I did it right and tapered very low (1/16 mg). I educated myself about the way it worked and the best way to go about it. These sorts of posts are *ridiculous*. I hope nobody listens, because it is posts like this that freaked the hell out of me while I was tapering and had me terrified that I'd screwed up my whole life by being on Suboxone. That fear is so toxic and baseless. Anyone out there who is tapering, just don't do it the way Kathleend did. Be reasonable about it and you have nothing to worry about. If you want to jump from an insane dose, then you will feel like crap for sure, but don't turn around and take it out on Suboxone in general, because it was your choice.

Sorry to sound irritated, but it really does bug me to read this "run, run for your lives" type stuff. The sky is not falling, guys.

laddertipper ~off Sub after 5.5 years on....and doing just fine!!!!

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 Post subject: Trading Addictions?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:36 pm 
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IMO it is trading addictions but to one that is manageable. No way could I taper off any opiate, but with Sub I am able to do it w/o any complications.

If she would just do some research here and other Suboxone forums she'd find numerous people who successfully tapered and stopped Sub after years of use. But they all tapered to a very low dose, not jumping from 4mgs. That's just asking for misery.

I think we should just delete posts like hers as it breaks the forum rules, doesn't it? We all know better and don't need to keep discussing it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:49 pm 
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Responding with bashing my Christian faith, name calling- calling me an idiot, innability to accept responsibility, she could have just in effect, killed someone- then to tell me I have angers issues. Really....
One post made good sense by saying the miracle is within yourself (paraphrased).
No worries, no more posts from me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:38 pm 
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Now wait one minute, Kathleend, where did someone bash your christian faith?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:53 pm 
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Rule,
My initial reaction was to delete her post but decided it could actually be useful. We get these posts every now and then and I think with the responses Kathleen received it could help people on the fence see that sub does not have to be that way. Do your home work and a proper taper and you won't end up like Kathleen. Experiences like hers are totally avoidable and I think leaving the thread up may help take credibility away from these "sub is evil" posters.

I could be off base on my conclusion so feel free to share your thoughts.


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 Post subject: my last post
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:40 pm 
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:roll: End up like Kathleen? I'm not a face or experience you know. Let alone I was not specific of my experiences with Suboxone here on this post for you to judge me. Shame on you. I said what I could and no more. This is a biased thread. Yes, I'm a "sub is evil" poster and said what I know to be true. Leave my posts, as any credibility by anyone including you- will ultimately be decided by the reader.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:31 pm 
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Kathleend
I can feel the anger in your post If you can explain to us viewer, what your reasons are for feeling this way we could have a discussion without all the hatered. I'm sure you are not doing well if you jumped from 4mg. Did you run out or was this something you wanted to do. How long were you on suboxone? What was your DOC? How long were you on those? This is a forum for people to help people. Not for us to demand that we do this or demand you do that. I don't think it would be much help to any of us if we TOLD everyone what to do, when to do it.
Mel :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: my last post
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:57 pm 
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Kathleend wrote:
:roll: End up like Kathleen? I'm not a face or experience you know. Let alone I was not specific of my experiences with Suboxone here on this post for you to judge me. Shame on you. I said what I could and no more. This is a biased thread. Yes, I'm a "sub is evil" poster and said what I know to be true. Leave my posts, as any credibility by anyone including you- will ultimately be decided by the reader.


I thought your last post was your last post?


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