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 Post subject: still clean over a month
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:35 am 
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I just wanted to pop in & let everyone know I am still off suboxone & 100% clean, my quit/jump day was October 7th. I spoke to soon on my other post about weight gain, the only downside I have is I have gained 9lbs. I plan on exercising for a few weeks until my body gets back to a routine( I luckily only have to work out about a month for my metabolism to kick back in). My energy level is picking up & virtually back to normal, I get tired around 6pm & wait for my 2nd wind...lol. Other than the few extra pounds, I am happy:) I was truly blessed to have such an easy time getting off, and I know I will stay off. Not just the desire to stay off, but the idea of pills makes me sick to my stomach. I had such a hard time trying to quit Lortabs way back in the beginning of this spiral. The suboxone w/d's were easier for me than hydrocodone, let alone the laundry list that followed the Lortabs. Everything is starting to finally look up. I started decorating for Christmas a week earler than I ever have before. And like I have said in my other posts, I am laughing all the time. The dumbest things can send me into a laughing fit, even the rediculous commercials make me laugh.
For the people wanting to get off suboxone, those that are ready, stay strong, it doesn't have to be bad, I am not saying it will be painless, or that you won't feel any w/d's. But they can be managed. Before you attempt to get off, prepare yourself in advance. I would take off as many sick days as you can, continue to use this forum for support(this site is a blessing), fully understand the w/d's you may or may not experience( but don't dwell on them), take it slow, take it easy, and now that once you are "free" from this, you will find the true meaning of freedom. Talk with your loved ones(if they are supportive in nature), and talk with your doctor. And keep posting, as someone else said, the majority of stories are horror stories because the ones who get off & stay off, don't come back on to just pop in & say "hey, I am still clean & this is what I have been doing!" The people trying to get off NEED to hear the good & the bad!
For the women: One "issue" I noticed was my cycle last month was 1 week late, & this month 10 days early. I am
only 30(Shhh, don't tell), and was always able to not only know when my "friend" was coming, but I knew exactly when I ovulated. Has any other woman experienced change in their cycle?
[b] I have truly love this website, the people on here, the opinions(whether I agree or not) and the support that I needed...so thanks for everything, it has helped bring me to this point.
My love to all,
Linds


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:01 am 
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That is absolutely wonderful to hear Lin! I feel like I rarely heard a success story prior to my jump. Either that or I was just so focused on all the negatives. I am 8 days clean so I'm with you on the joy of a lot of those lil things and emotions coming back. It can surely be done with some days off work and some will power. How's your sleep habits been? I havent been able to sleep
later than like 7am and this morning I'm wide awake at 5am and staring at the alarm clock to go off at 7 for work. Congratulations and keep us posted!!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:59 pm 
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My sleep is back to "normal." I had difficulty staying asleep for a week or so in the beginning. I tried OTC sleep aids, but just found myself jittery. I have problems staying asleep on good nights due to back pain/scoliosis(I need a new mattress) & I am an extremely light sleeper, the slightest niose has always woke me up. I unfortunately don't go to sleep until around 3am since those late hours is when I can clean the house without interuptions from the kids. Since you are at 8 days, I would think you are going to start to slowly get more sleep every night. Overall, the sleepless nights didn't last too long. The more stuff I did, the better I slept. The first night I fell asleep early & stayed knocked out was after I took my kids to the fairgrounds for a Halloween Fright Night, I walked for what seemed like miles that night, but crashed on the bed after so it was worth it:) But I know if you don't get enough sleep at night it will make the next day even tougher. The sleep will return, you are doing great. It only gets better from here:)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:58 pm 
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Congratulations! I'll say 'congratulations on your continuing sobriety', as I don't want to suggest that you are 'more sober' than others... but at the same time, it is clearly very difficult to go through a taper, and you deserve credit for accomplishing your goals.

I'm trying to decide... is it possible to give credit to those who have reduced their tolerance to 'zero', without placing people on Suboxone in the position of having unfinished business? For those who don't know, my opinion is that for many people, on Suboxone is the perfect place to be. I see it as similar to people with hypertension, who are no less healthy for being on their antihypertensive medications. Other people benefit from buprenorphine as a medication that improves their mood, or that reduces chronic pain. Then there are those who simply live too close to their old haunts, and who are at constant risk for a return to addiction.... who would be making a grave mistake to go off buprenorphine.

I understand, of course, the desire to be 'off everything.' Carrying things to the disease analogy, a person with high blood pressure who diets, exercises, and looses weight may eventually be able to go off medication, and that is great. I just don't want to create a situation where people who are NOT ready to stop, go off their medication and relapse. And I don't think it would be appropriate for people ON buprenorphine to look to being off the medication as 'the ultimate goal'.... because it is not the ultimate goal. Staying CLEAN is the ultimate goal.

Maybe we should have another section, for those who are 'looking back' at taking buprenorphine. I will set it up and see if there is a demand. I only ask one thing.... NO GLOATING! Please try to avoid creating the assumption that 'everyone should try to get off Suboxone,' as that is NOT the case. Perhaps one of the people who have tapered off buprenorphine could provide some information, in the form of initial posts, about who should stop buprenorphine, who SHOULDN'T, how to do it, and how to continue to remain sobriety going forward.

Again, congratulations to Lindscnn; we know it ain't easy!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:34 pm 
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Suboxdoc...No, I don't think everyone should get off suboxone. Suboxone saves lives in every aspect. Just as herion addicts sometimes need to remain on Methadone. But there are the ones who want off of it all, and if they can truly manage real life & the things that may present themselves, then I believe if they choose to get off, then that's right for them. For me suboxone was a stepping stone, with the idea/plan on getting off, that was always my plan. I luckily haven't had a desire, urge or craving for drugs since I was started on suboxone. I needed suboxone to help me physically & mentally, otherwise I truly believe I would still be using medication that didn't ease my pain, just helped sink me further in it's grip. My posting isn't "gloating" but giving a brighter side to the often dark side of withddrawaling off of suboxone. Some hae stated that suboxone is just as bad as methadone, in regards to withdrawals. That was just not even a comparison most people need to hear/read, and that was surely not the situation in my case. As for me being more sober than others who are still taking suboxone/subutex, well no! Not unless they are using as another way to catch a buzz or hold themselves over until they get their drug of choice, then in under either of those 2 situations, yes I am more sober. I am not chained to any bottle because of addiction to that medicine. If I hurt I take Ibuprofen 800, aspirin, or tylenol...and that's it. Okay, some Nyquil when I am sick, too.
There are lots of people who are doing research into suboxone before they get on it, if all they see are negative messeges about w/d's from suboxone, they are going to be less likely to try it. That's why I said people need to know the good & the bad. Out of the posts I have read, a majority do not want to stay on suboxone forever. The idea of using a medication is to be healthy, but each person idea of healthy can be different. My personal goal was to be "clean" from all of it, not just clean from one drug while substituting it for another. But that was MY goal. I know there are others who want the same as I do. If my being happy& proud of myself, and proud of others who are doing it too, is misconstrued as gloating well, I don't know what to say??? To each his/her own. Some things are as simple as black & white, others fall in the gray area. Though I don't think people are going to see/hear/read I got off drugs and look down upon me for doing so. I can say I am drug free & happy this way, I have reached my goal & am setting new & higher ones.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:48 pm 
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Oh, I forgot one question to Suboxdoc. Do you personally prescribe, or are you affiliated with the prescriptions of Suboxone or Subutex? I don't mean that out of disrespect, but out of sheer curiosity.


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 Post subject: Congrats
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:18 pm 
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Congrats on achieving your "ultimate goal"of being off of suboxone for one month.....My "ultimate goal" is to be off suboxone too....In AA we celebrate when someone has 30 days of continuous sobriety not tell them that they should not be gloating that they are free of all narcotics........thank god we do not have narcotics prescribed for hypertension cause I would demand them.....

I think since I have been on this site there are at least 3 people that have gone back to subs after being off but I hope you are able to stay clean off all narcotics going forward. I remember gloating when I was 30 days clean of all drugs and alcohol because I couldn't remember a time in my adult life where I went 30 days without putting any kind of drug or alcohol into my body.

There has never been a written rule about gloating but I guess you should tone it down a bit for those that still travel hours every month to spend hundreds of dollars on their doctor visit and the medication even though they have great insurance....I found this a little unsettling.......but I am happy you are doing well and that you have shared your experience with all of us.

Jim


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:25 am 
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So many interesting thoughts came to mind while reading this thread - at least they did for me. With regard to the folks that stopped Suboxone here only to decide to get back on it again, I find it very interesting that the three or four of them that I am aware of - because they continue to come back and post - actually got back on Suboxone not because of cravings or a fear of relapse, but actually due to feeling like utter shit, even after several months. Certainly there are those who we never hear from again and really don't know what happened to them. Then there are those who actually do relapse or are darn close to relapse and need to get back on Suboxone to protect their lives. But there are also a sizeable number who return to Suboxone because they just feel like crap without it. I am so glad to see that PAWS does not at all seem to be doing you in lindscnn. It is very encouraging to hear.

One of the other things that really hit me is again, for a sizable number of those of us who really would rather get off of Suboxone at some point, I'm not so sure it's mostly because of being on a medication or having to take a pill everyday. I don't think it's because of bad side effects either. From what I read, many people seem to want to get off of Suboxone due to the cost, the hassle, and the stigma. I really have to wonder if they didn't have to go see a physician once a month, didn't have to pay so much for the medication and doctor visits and didn't have all sorts of people telling them they are not really clean or have just traded addictions - I really wonder if these all were not the case, if many, many more would not just stay on it. Just think about that for a bit. Those of you who really want to get off Sub at some point, if I could wave a magic wand and get you Suboxone for free with only one doctor visit a year (which you should get anyhow) and no one thought any differently about you taking Suboxone as they do about you taking Lipitor or atenalol, would you not just stay on it? I'm pretty darn certain that I would. It's the hassle factor, the cost, the time, and the fact that the FAA won't let me fly my small, four seat, plane while taking Suboxone that leads the charge for me hoping to get off one day in the future. I'm not positive by any means, but from what I've read from a lot of people, I think I'm pretty accurate with this one.

Thanks so much for continuing to let us know how you are doing lindscnn. It really does give me, and many others here, additional hope for the future. I hope you'll continue to keep us updated over the next weeks, months and years!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:17 am 
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I have to agree with you, don, about the hassles of being on sub being a huge part of the reason many people want to get off of suboxone. For me, my sub is covered by my insurance (my sub doc is my PCP) and I see him every 3 months, so I guess it's not so much of a hassle. Plus it helps my pain so it's worth whatever stigma that comes with being on it. In other words the good outweighs the bad FOR ME. But I understand that for others, it's actually the bad that outweighs the good. Those hassles can affect a person's life profoundly. If being on it bothers them that much, then I can understand their reasons for wanting off it so bad. I guess what I'm saying is everyone has their own, very personal reasons to stay on it or go off it. Those reasons have to be balanced against the risk of relapse from going off of it. But I will say a person's motivation and determination can really help them get through it. That motivation is a good reason to come off it. I would just add that I believe if they do other things like relapse prevention and new coping skills, etc, then they have an even better chance of succeeding. I feel like I'm not being clear, but I hope I'm making some semblance of sense.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:05 pm 
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I just want to say first of all, I NEVER said or wrote that I think any person NEEDS/ OR SHOULD to get off suboxone, that is what Suboxdoc implied, not me. Suboxdoc wrote 'Everyone should try to get off suboxone' insinuating that's what I had wrote..I DID NOT. I wrote "For those wanting to get off!" I would never judge anyone who stays on suboxone b/c I know the good in can do. I wrote my post mainly for the ones who have commented on my other posts, so they know I am still off/clean. I guess that's why I posted under "Stopping Suboxone". I would never criticize someone for making the choice to stay on Suboxone, and I surely wouldn't criticize ones who are ready to come off of it either. My 2nd comment was aimed at Cantbephaded who was on their 8th day off, I answered a question..that's it.
Don...Suboxone should be more cost effective. For me, my other prescriptions were covered by my insurance, but the suboxone was not. It was expensive, but the cost had nothing to do with my choice not to stay on it long term. I had always planned to get off suboxone. I missed my doctor's appointment b/c I had made my script last longer. When I realized I was out I called to schedule an appointment, she couldn't see me until the following Monday. I went Thursday-Monday & when I didn't feel too bad on Monday, I didn't go to my appointment. It was purely my decision, based on how I felt mentally & physically. As far as thhe stigma, I didn't care. I knew the stigma of being addicted to a list of other drugs was much worse. I personally wanted to get back to the point where I didn't need a medication to get me through the day, I wanted to feel as if I had rewinded my body 6+ years. So my own response to if it were free, would I have stayed on it, no. But there are people who should stay on it, or need to remain on it.
Reraise...Thanks:)
I know everyone is different. I know everyone has a different situation. I do however always look at profits. I profited from getting on suboxone & now getting off suboxone. But who would profit from me staying on Suboxone, if my answer was ME, then I would stay on it...but if the answer is the doctors, pharmacy & manufacturers,and not ME, then that's an entirely different scenario. And I fell into the NOT ME catagory. Like I said before, I looked into suboxone for over a year before trying to get on it, I looked at post on this website as reference too. I wanted other people who are debating whether to give suboxone a try to know that there are good stories of suboxone w/d, not just the horror stories...That was my point & I am sorry that my words have been twisted & used against me. I probably won't post anymore updates due to this exact situation...or was that the point of Suboxdoc....hmmm? He did say he is for staying on Suboxone. Here's an analogy...If someone is overweight, do you continue to shove large fries & burgers down their throat? Or do you try to teach them to eat healthier? There can be an analogy for every situation in life...
Linds


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:27 pm 
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Linds, I don't think anyone thinks you don't respect people who stay on it. I certainly didn't take it that way, not one bit of anything you said was anything but your experience, which, btw, we value here. I hope you do continue to stay and give us updates. Maybe just a misunderstanding? It happens sometimes when we rely ONLY on the written word and we miss those all important non-verbal communications. Please stay.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:26 pm 
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Lindscnn - I was re-reading Dr. J's response to you and as I understand him, he used the word "gloating" as it related to making a new topic/category for those who are off suboxone as a general guideline for that category. I don't believe he was referring to you at all. I just wanted to add my perspective. I really do hope you stay. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:13 pm 
Gloat = to look at or think about with great or excessive satisfaction.

Is that a bad thing? I suppose it could be if it were done in an effort to 'shame' someone else. I don't see that happening here at all, but I think that's what Dr. Junig is trying to avoid. He, nor most of the rest of us, want people to come onto this site and read anything that belittles the use of buprenorphine in recovery from opiate addiction. I get that.

Linds....Please don't quit posting. I appreciate your posts. I am impressed and proud of you for getting off Suboxone and I, personally, believe you have every right to 'gloat.' You haven't said anything that I can see that is negative towards anyone who chooses to stay on Suboxone. What you have done is given me and many others who want off, hope that we can do it. And living proof that it can be done relatively easily. So....thank you very much! And all the best to you as go forward! I hope you'll stick around and post at least from time to time to encourage people like me who are really quite envious of you and where you are today!!!


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