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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:37 pm 
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I found this link and thought it was an interesting read....I only made it through about a tenth of it however. But skimming was good.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:20 am 
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I could only skim, too. But very interesting...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:27 pm 
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I actually ran into that same site a couple-few months ago. I found it very interesting my self!! Others should check it out if ya get a chance..........

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:11 pm 
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read a lil bit, and decided whoever made that does not like AA. has no vaild proof for his numbers.....AA works if you want it it to. He did not name one person that just decides to quit alchoal on their own and made it ten years with no help from AA. Duh, AA=other addicts/drunks that will help you recover, knowing your not alone is all that matters and you may hear some stuff you like, similar stories from AA. Then, being able to talk about whatever us going on in your life, is a great fucking tool. I personally know people with 30-50years of sobriety. They credit AA every time they speak(AA=free!!!). A treatment program does the same thing. Suboxone is just a another opiate that does not get you high, and is better than methadone for that reason. All it's good for is weaning down, or life long maintince, anyway most addicts like me don't want to just switch their addictions and desire to wean off it. I am currently weaning off it, wile attending AA i have a sponsor working the steps honestly AA is fucking awesome I made good friends from it, and it's going to be the only way that ill stay sober once i get off suboxone.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:33 am 
spike93333 wrote:
read a lil bit, and decided whoever made that does not like AA. has no vaild proof for his numbers.....AA works if you want it it to. He did not name one person that just decides to quit alchoal on their own and made it ten years with no help from AA. Duh, AA=other addicts/drunks that will help you recover, knowing your not alone is all that matters and you may hear some stuff you like, similar stories from AA. Then, being able to talk about whatever us going on in your life, is a great fucking tool. I personally know people with 30-50years of sobriety. They credit AA every time they speak(AA=free!!!). A treatment program does the same thing. Suboxone is just a another opiate that does not get you high, and is better than methadone for that reason. All it's good for is weaning down, or life long maintince, anyway most addicts like me don't want to just switch their addictions and desire to wean off it. I am currently weaning off it, wile attending AA i have a sponsor working the steps honestly AA is fucking awesome I made good friends from it, and it's going to be the only way that ill stay sober once i get off suboxone.


You are wrong. Orange cites each and every one of his sources. Just because you don't like what he has to say doesn't make it false.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:14 pm 
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spike93333 wrote:
AA works if you want it it to.


Strongly disagree, it works FOR SOME. I gave the 12 steps an honest try, 90 in 90, 2 different sponsors. I just began to feel more and more uncomfortable. When I expressed discomfort, I was constantly told that it was my fault, not the programs. Major red flags there, no "program" is infallible. That is some very dangerous talk IMO. It seems that many people in the 12 steps have the whole concept of their recovery reliant on AA. It was written by a a bunch of southern good ol boys. They have a very different perspective from a person like myself. I am a progressive who was born and raised in the Northern Midwest.

As for the orange-papers, the info is like any other source. Something that should be taken with a grain of salt. The author is sharing his experience. Why is his less valid then that of the steppers?


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 Post subject: Awesome read
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:42 pm 
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Read this and agree with most of what the author says. He does have references to his source material linked at the end. Some of his writing is highly opinionated against 12 stepping. I like the part at the end where he gives his steps

"Make up some new steps, like:

1. I admit that drinking and smoking has gotten to be a real drag, and I am suffering so much that it isn't any fun any more.
2. I quit, and I'm staying quit forever.
3. Some of my friends may help me occasionally, but I'm mainly going to count on myself.
4. Whenever I am tempted to relapse, I will think about step one again, and remember why I quit in the first place. I will also remember what happened the last time I relapsed."

I personally made a decision to quit. I have been to many 12 step meetings in the past. I have read the big book and the NA book. I believe in God, Jesus, and praying. That has given me strength not AA or NA neither of which made me quit. It was a personal decision based on things that resemble his made up steps. I like my new Sub doctor but do not agree that I should have to do any step work. I am being told to do it. I think that it should be an individual choice. I intend on using people here for support plus I also have strong family support and church support people. I think that is enough. Sorry Doc, I am not powerless over Drug addiction. I will never admit to being powerless because I have a choice. I have the right to choose and choose not to pickup. I choose to use my OWN steps :lol: which are almost exactly like his steps. :)

DO NOT get me wrong to each his own. If you can do step work and stay sober GREAT. If you use AA and NA and they work good for you, THAT is awesome. The whole point of all of this is staying sober. THAT is all that matters.

Later
Dana
Clean since 7/22/11 on Sub 8mg 2x day


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:05 pm 
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Hey Northerner your argument for bashing AA because the founders were southerners is immature and inaccurate ! Dr.Bob and Bill W both come from prominent families in Vermont. Even if they weren't though, you'd still be wrong in your assumptions- not adhering to a certain method of recovery because its originators don't share the same ethnic/cultural background as yourself is not only stupid, but discriminatory and just childish(I drank German beer and shot some Afghani dope when I was in active addiction without thinking twice about it. Does that make me a Nazi and a terrorist lol) I believe you see the absurdity of your argument.

I hope you are doing good, may GOD be with you. Please remember since your disease doesn't discriminate (it picks on ppl of all walks of life/skin color/gender/income etc etc), your recovery shouldn't either.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:31 am 
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i do not think he is bashing any thing'. just the facts being true , is just simple understanding.

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 Post subject: Re: Awesome read
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:33 am 
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Dana D D wrote:
Read this and agree with most of what the author says. He does have references to his source material linked at the end. Some of his writing is highly opinionated against 12 stepping. I like the part at the end where he gives his steps

"Make up some new steps, like:

1. I admit that drinking and smoking has gotten to be a real drag, and I am suffering so much that it isn't any fun any more.
2. I quit, and I'm staying quit forever.
3. Some of my friends may help me occasionally, but I'm mainly going to count on myself.
4. Whenever I am tempted to relapse, I will think about step one again, and remember why I quit in the first place. I will also remember what happened the last time I relapsed."

I personally made a decision to quit. I have been to many 12 step meetings in the past. I have read the big book and the NA book. I believe in God, Jesus, and praying. That has given me strength not AA or NA neither of which made me quit. It was a personal decision based on things that resemble his made up steps. I like my new Sub doctor but do not agree that I should have to do any step work. I am being told to do it. I think that it should be an individual choice. I intend on using people here for support plus I also have strong family support and church support people. I think that is enough. Sorry Doc, I am not powerless over Drug addiction. I will never admit to being powerless because I have a choice. I have the right to choose and choose not to pickup. I choose to use my OWN steps :lol: which are almost exactly like his steps. :)

DO NOT get me wrong to each his own. If you can do step work and stay sober GREAT. If you use AA and NA and they work good for you, THAT is awesome. The whole point of all of this is staying sober. THAT is all that matters.

Later
Dana
Clean since 7/22/11 on Sub 8mg 2x day


Word.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:45 am 
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i'm adding people's views about AA/NA to my list of things it's pointless to argue about, that will only offend the other person no matter how hard I try. politics, sports teams, and religion are also on that list quite appropriately...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:16 pm 
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Hopefiend,

But arguing about sports teams is fun at least..;-) did I mention LET's GO FLYERS- for all of our Pens fans :-)

I agree about recovery.. It's such an individual thing.. I think that's the point most people (including yourself) were making.. When someone tries to argue in absolutes, for either viewpoint, it brings out the natural urge to defend ones opinion.. But the bottom line is we do whatever works for OUR recovery.. It's different for everyone.. Thank God we have as many options as we do..


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:32 pm 
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good point nogroovin!

when somebody tries to force THEIR program of recovery in one form or another down my throat it is my-inner addict's nature to get defensive and instead point out everything that's wrong with it.

the only exception to this would be in detox, when your broken, beat down, and hopeless; when you've lost(given away) everything to this damn disease are you willing to try ANYTHING that works. in other words you need to have this "gift of desperation" in order to finally attempt the method of recovery that was suggested to me. after all, my way got me nowhere and nothing but relapse after relapse!!!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: GO RED SOX///GO BRUINS HEHEEE 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:02 pm 
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AA, in it's own literature states 3% success rate after 5 years. If need be I can find it and a link.

I tried for almost 30 years to stay sober with AA, 7 years the longest. Most the time sober all of those 30 years, but kept relapsing.

Finally realized I had to leave AA and try to find something that would work for me, or I would die. I went on the Sinclair Method. 80% success rate and has been approved in the US for 20 years with the use of Naltrexone.

It works. I don't have an issue with alcohol anymore and so grateful.

You can research this method on the internet. There are support forums of many people that have successfully used this treatment.


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