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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:51 am 
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Personally I don't care what NA thinks of suboxone because I have zero interest in NA. I knew it wasn't for me when I was in rehab (years before I started suboxone treatment btw). I know that's just me and others are completely different and have a completely different opinion, I respect that. See that's what I want ppl of NA to understand, there's different recovery options, NA isn't making all the rules for all of us. So the fact that someone I don't know and doesn't know me, telling me that my recovery is wrong....I pay no attention to because it doesn't matter to me. I don't define others recovery so they won't define mine.

I don't think ur on suboxone are u? Are u just going by others experience? I'm just trying to understand is all.

I also want to clear a few things up that u said about this treatment. The longer ur on suboxone the worse the withdrawal is....not true. With suboxone once u hit the ceiling level, ur tolerance is basically the same. It's once u get below that level that withdrawal can start and it wouldn't matter if that was after 6 months or 6 yrs. If u taper slowly, it's possible to have very little withdrawal. Another thing is that in the present, there's more and more doctors that do believe in buprenorphine lifelong treatment. There's ppl, like me, who need it lifelong. And the insurance thing u mention, I pay cash because I have no insurance. I've paid $350 a month plus over a hundred in medication for 4 1/2 yrs. Is it expensive, yes, but it's my choice and I pay it. So I'm not milking insurance & will change once insurance refuses to pay or whatever it is that ppl tend to think, that's ppl talking about ppl that they know nothing about. Being on a long term treatment doesn't have anything to do with how long insurance will pay for it imo. U can absolutely have surgery during suboxone treatment and u can treat pain with pain medicine while on suboxone.

Maybe I'm a little to sensitive on this topic because of how judgemental ppl are. Let everyone decide their own recovery without dissecting it to death. I didn't enter suboxone treatment until it was my last option. I went to NA...a lot, rehab, detox x3, cold turkey...u name it, for around 8 yrs before Suboxone. After losing my home and my children, I was desperate. Nothing worked until I found suboxone, and it was my last option. If I'd found sub sooner I would have saved myself so much loss.

My faith was and is strong, but faith and my higher power didn't stop my cravings and relapse. U shouldn't say that "if u cannot find the faith to trust in a higher power by all means stay on it as long as u can". Should I say thank u for ur permission or that opinion on MY recovery? So by being on sub our faith is not strong? I am just going to stop there, I don't want this to be NA vs Suboxone.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:00 pm 
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Hi DJ, Welcome! I am a moderator here and have just read your post. I am not sure what you mean when you say if you don't have trust in a higher power to stop suboxone. First, we each have our own very individual relationship with a higher power if we so choose. For me, my higher power has been by my side through my entire journey with addiction and now recovery with suboxone. My higher power has given me the ability to have faith in myself and the decisions that I make. I have been in and out of the "rooms" since I was 13 years old. One of the most important things that I have learned is that if I am focused on my own recovery, there is no time to be taking other people's inventory. I can not presume to know where anyone's relationship with their higher power will take them!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:30 pm 
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Thanks jennjenn and Michelle, I agree completely!

I know I am a loved child of God. I also know that bad things happen to good people in spite of great faith.

In addition, there is alot of misinformation in Dj's posts and I don't have the patience or time to break it all down point by point... Peli

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:47 pm 
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Me either..there really is no point .

And the OP is a one an done anyhow.the three of you said it all .







Razor


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:51 pm 
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There are almost zero overdoses on buprenorphine products. To overdose on buprenorphine requires 1. no or very low opioid tolerance-- the tolerance of a non-opioid-user; plus 2. a second respiratory depressant that the person is ALSO not tolerant to.

There are 30,000 overdose deaths in the US each year. How many of those 30,000 have traces of buprenorphine in the blood? 40. That's right-- 40 out of 40,000. In other words, 0.1% of overdoses involve buprenorphine-- about 1 in a thousand.

But more important-- in those cases buprenorphine was almost never the CAUSE of death-- it just happened to be present in trace amounts. In most of the 40 deaths, the person would have lived if he had taken MORE buprenorphine.

So no-- it isn't fair to say 'there are overdoses too'-- because use of buprenorphine, whether prescribed, diverted, or stolen-- saves FAR more people than it harms.

Most people in NA also fail to understand now buprenorphine works, the concept of 'complete mu tolerance', the actions of partial agonists, etc. So people should choose the treatment based on what works-- not based on half-truths and misunderstandings. Once treated with buprenorphine, you won't need NA anymore. A shocking comment, but completely true. So don't worry about how they will judge you! Take it appropriately, and we will help you let go of any shame you are feeling.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:19 am 
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Thanks Dr J!

And the other mods, Thanks for your patience w posters. Don't know how you all do it but I am so very grateful to you all and the all posters here (well most of them, lol - and those too - bc it gives me a chance to recognize and define my experience as compared or opposed to theirs).

I came to this site on WHIM, curious to discover wtf I did to me and others I loved during active addiciton only to SHOCKINGLY discover -- that I wasn't a failure bc NA and abstinence did not work for me.

Yet Bup did... Bup worked...
5+ yrs off now and ever ever so grateful for it. NA helped me but mad and sad that bup wasn't mentioned at NA and at other important crucial moments to help me.

That's my biggest take away from here -- bc of all I've learned here, I now know I'm not a failure, just the opposite --- I am worthy of much love and respect!! = Bup works!! Wishing you all my best, always, Peli

PS If I ever need to, I'd go bk to bup in a heartbeat

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:16 pm 
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I know it works for me and I don't see any reason to stop. The odds of me using, and dying go way up without it.

I know that some docs stigmatize the substance, but that is misguided. If there ever comes a time when no DR will give it to me, I would seriously consider procuring in on the black market, if possible.

That said, I am 2 years in or so. I know people who have been on it more than 10 with no plans to stop. But with potential Medicaid cuts, (and some states already cap duration at 1 or 2 years) I do fear how long it can be covered.

Also if the law changed and capped usage for me, I am forced to 1) stop, and my mortality risk goes up considerably; 2) go to black market where hard drugs become easier to stumble into (to say nothing of the risk of arrest etc...)

Maybe my mind will change, but subs have improved my life dramatically. I am also on Wellburtin, also helps me, but no one seems to care if I take that forever. The only side effect I feel is constipation but I have found ways around that with diet, stool softener.

Otherwise I get no euphoria and no noticable side effects, no problems sleeping.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:07 pm 
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That is a dangerous decision. I wish you the best


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:39 pm 
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AJ, if I'm reading your post correctly it seems like you are saying it's a dangerous decision to stay on buprenorphine. Is that correct?

If that's what you mean I need to advise you to read our terms of membership. There is to be no arguing about what form of recovery is best or worst. This forum is for people who want to be in a community of folks who help and support each other. Arguing that someone is making a bad decision by staying on buprenorphine is not tolerated. If buprenorphine doesn't work for you feel free to tell the members here how you came to that opinion. But the choices that others make about their recovery are not your concern unless they are specifically asking for your opinion.

If I interpreted your post incorrectly then what I've just written doesn't apply to you. It's always a good reminder though.

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:48 pm 
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I interpreted it the exact way u did Amy. And considering this is Malachi's second post after being a member for a year or so, that's not very cool to comment on their recovery choice like that. It's irritating. I believe in staying on suboxone for life just like Malachi does. Not everyone has to agree but respect those that do. It isn't a dangerous decision.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:28 pm 
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Its all personal choice. If you cant function without opiates then take the opiate my friend. Im five months off after 16mg for a year. If im not okay after a year Ill probably join ya.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:58 pm 
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Ive not been on Subs that long but honestly i may quit one day but then again i may not. Previously i was using Methadone and Norcos and kicking was the worse thing thats ever happen to me in my life. I was so sick its insane for about 10 or 11 days. Ive had walking pneumonia before and it didnt last as long as Withdraws. I mean why would i want to do that to myself again if i dont have to . I mean im not knocking anyone but i guess i just fail to understand what some other people got through while on subs. I mean ive read this and other blogs and alot of people coming off subs act like it was destroying their quality of life.
I mean instead of coming off subs they act as if their coming off a $200 a day crack habit. Subs certainly dont decrease my quality of life. And it in fact increases the quality of my life because it keeps me from doing other opiates. One because they wont work any way and two because i know i have a monthly drug test i have to pass in order to keep my medicine. So it actually keeps me from doing more harmful illegal drugs.So i cant really see why i would want to stop.
To each his/her own i suppose.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:33 pm 
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Thanks for posting Mikey,
Your words follow the true spirit of this forum. I wish you well..


Razor


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:03 am 
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I'm glad u posted too Mickey!

It definitely hasn't destroyed my quality of life either, plus having peace is worth everything :)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Michelle F. wrote:
When I first started, my feeling was that I would be at 24mgs for as long as I needed and had no plan to taper. Now,18 months later, I have tapered to 4mgs per day and feel great!


That is great to read. When I was first put on subs, my mindset was really to be on as minimal-as-possible. Although, I think this was a false state of mind as it should have been whatever-dose-needed since I was stabilizing from addiction I could not shake after 2 years of trying to get clean, 4 detoxes 2 rehabs, sober living and meetings later. My doctor put me on 8mg 3x a day. When I took it I knew there were much larger strips, knew I was on a low-ish dose. It was dumb of me to not think because of accumulation throughout the day and the halflife of the medicine I was really on 24mg a day, just split up 3x.

It's great to know someone tapered from 24mg to 4mg so quickly and also feel as good as you do :) I am honestly relieved reading your post. It has been lately getting under my skin. The thought of my insurance dropping me and falling from such a high dose. And the junky in me is like "Im not even getting high off these, and to think my tolerance and how bad the withdrawals would be I might as well be doing x y or z!" heh.

~~~

As for being on for life ~ yeah. I can see it. I recently got some perspective and went back to my first AA meeting since induction and it was an eye opener. It was too bad, there was HA going on next door but I did not know. But anyway... it was fascinating to reconnect but also be in a place of being Okay with a capital O and not be crawling out of my skin. I'm trying to figure out where to go next with this, and I am just shaking my head 'no'. 12 step is not compatible with saving this life of mine. It had ample chance and I gave it my everything. If I did not decide to give suboxone a try (and I felt guilty... so much guilt. Largely due to the kind of talk you hear around 12 step meetings about medication) I may not have made it. For the 2 years I struggled getting clean it sure was 2 years of fighting suicide. And using well I made it to the hospital 3 times in 2 years overdosing. And when I sat in that room I closed my eyes and I just listened. I realized you never know what the next person would say. But no longer did I have to feel guilty that I hated the "higher power" bs (sorry to those of you... its just, for me, its incompatible) and knowing it was "the only way" and yet I couldnt give in to save my life. No longer did I feel dumb and guilty that it didnt seem to save me one bit... I survived making it from waking up to my meeting and the only time I felt safe was in bed waiting to sleep. Im going to keep going back. Now I can take pieces of what people say, remember or apply them to my life. Not be so stressed. But I am so thankful I found suboxone. I am all for science, I love science. If science can make a strip containing a speck of dust worth of chemical that can effectively 'turn off' active addiction and make it go into remission I am all for it. Suboxone making such a drastic difference in my brain and the way life simply IS to me, made me realize I have indeed been born with an addict brain and have been an addict since a child. But the alcoholics and their religious dogma could not save this life. I would be dead. Now I look back at the rehabs I have been to and I am angry. There was never a system in their intake program that would set addicts aside and talk to them about their choices, specifically maintenance ones. It was all cold cut 12 step. I had to pull major strings to get a smart recovery packet and was still required to do the 12 step. The doctor came once a week and you never knew what time. There was not a peep about maintenance therapy and the majority of us were there for heroin. Both times. And it just makes me angry and sad. More lives could be saved.

~~~

Sorry for my tirade. As far as I can tell, I am staying on maintenance for my life. If I ever lose suboxone due to insurance, I will seek methadone. It used to be a dirty word for me. Now methadone is just pre-buprenorphine to me. If I can survive on the low-fat program I think that's best. But whatever saves your life, friend. I dont think being maintenance-free should be a goal of anybodys life if it results in suicidiality or life threatening behaviors. No reason to feel guilty if you live a healthier life x way or y way. Maybe you shouldnt be without your insulin.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:48 am 
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Here, here, Iggy!

Amy

P.S. Definitely try SMART Recovery meetings.

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