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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:09 pm 
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Hey guys.

It's been a matter of time for me but the last week the bipolar's reared its ugly head again - yeah just before Christmas too... It seems like there really ain't any treatments for bipolar depression that work long term. In my case, they always poop out after a few months at the most.

My question is... How can a person stay clean when they don't value their life or themselves? These are the periods I generally have used while I've been on Sub - when I don't value my life, or only see my future as being a few decades of battling more depression. It's kinda hard to come up with an argument to not use when the brain's considering even worse courses of action. Sometimes using seems like a lesser evil. The only thing that's keeping me from using, ironically after all the shit I say on this forum, is the fact bupe's likely going to block the hit from knocking me on my arse. And anything short of blackout seems a waste of time.

I'm not posting this because I want some encouragement or people to tell me it'll be okay. If anything I just want some answers or some course of action I can take to make it go away without using etc.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Hey TJ,

Sorry your bipolar issues are kicking back in, that sucks. I was hoping your latest meds would do the trick for you....long term. No such luck, though.

You've had success with different meds in the past, although none of them work long term. So I was wondering if maybe you're going to have to rotate your meds. Have you thought about that? I know it's not ideal, but it's all I got.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:20 pm 
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I think that during times like this, the seduction is to only think about yourself. How you feel, what you want to do (use), why your future sucks. I'm sure that it's hard to look outward and think altruistically when depression has taken hold. But I think that is exactly what you need to do.

Besides your family, who would be devastated if something happened to you, there are plenty of people out there who could use your time and support. Try on someone else's problems and figure out what you can do to help. Depression is very real, but it tends to be super self focused. Put your focus elsewhere. Get out of your head and do yourself and the world a favor by offering up your time and talents.

I don't know if it will work, but it's a better alternative than using and sitting around feeling terrible about yourself.

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:09 pm 
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Hey TJ
I don't have any "worldly advice" for you,,,
I just wanted to say that my husband is also bi-polar, and although his meds work
pretty well, WE still deal with "issues" sometimes.....
especially in times of extreme stress.

for him, depression doesn't come all by it's self it has a "pre curser'', it's the MOOD SWINGS .....
His "official diagnosis" is bi-polar w/rage
I know he tries,,, I know he does.
He just seems to totally LOSE IT sometimes, and THEN he gets depressed, becuz he's freaked out
on me or someone else, and I KNOW he doesn't mean to be so hurtful.
he'll apologize and try to make things better.
before he was ever diagnosed, I'd just LEAVE........and his depression was REALLY bad then.

I guess I should be thankful his meds work as WELL as they DO.
it only seems to be an issue once or twice a YEAR.
counseling has REALLY helped, most times things get "to the table" before hand, but we did have quite the
'incident' a week or so ago.
Im not going to go into detail, but it wasn't fun for either one of us, Im just glad it mostly happened over the phone,
and NOT in earshot of our young son.

I feel for you, and I also feel for anybody close to you.
I said "we''
in the begining, becuz it feels like MY diagnosis, too. Just like HE has to be careful of any pills that are in the house,
or anything,,,,,,, MY addiction is sorta his diagnosis, in a way......

Many of us, have "co-occuring" conditions. . . I for one, am TEXTBOOK adhd. . . I've wrote about that here before,
but it's certainly NO PICNIC either.

Getting to the root of our issues, is difficult to say the least.

I wish you the very best,,, TJ
you deserve to be HAPPY.
Merry Christmas,
and I hope you feel better soon, or ALREADY feel better!!!!!

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its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:54 pm 
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Hey guys thank you and Merry Christmas to you all.

The downer I was on when I wrote this thread seems to have gone. I don't really know how but it has. When this thing happens I usually start tweaking the fuck outta my own meds and doing all kindsa things to try and make myself feel better. This time there was some extra desperation with Christmas being on the doorstep and all. Usually that "clutching at straws" / looking for answers ends up in me turning to drugs - even though I very well know they don't help anymore. Thankfully it didn't happen this time, though I'd be lying if I said the thought didn't swirl around my head a lot.

In the end I emailed my doc and told him ... "Been feeling like shit. Permission to take all my 3 lithium at night avanza back up and a shitload of fish oil" ... Got the okay (even though I'd started it anyway) and 2 days later things went okay again. Actually .. better than okay. Now I'm not taking lithium in the morning I actually remember people's names (a bit) and feel like writing music.

But I know bipolar is a very transient illness so ... until next time.

I guess the real question I wanted to ask, and the most pertinent to my recovery ... It's a bit of a depressing topic and best left til after Christmas ... These episodes will no doubt happen again (they usually happen every 2-3 months) ... HOW could a person stop themselves from using if they're fixated on harming themselves in even worse ways? It's easy to rationalise using when it seems the lesser evil. Looking back, I'd even agree that being introduced to heroin may have kept me alive during the most difficult period in my life.

That being said, I don't need it anymore. I just start needing some evidence - like this time - that I can get through an episode like this by letting itself resolve naturally or with medical help ... WITHOUT seeking relief before that happens. Maybe if I can get a few more episodes like this that I ride out I'll be able to remember it's possible while I'm in there?

Just speculation.

Romeo yeah rotating meds might sounds like a workable idea. When I look back maybe that's what my doc's actually been doing, even if he hasn't recognised it as such.

Amy yeah I do hear ya. The thought of family definitely has a sobering effect. It can be hard to think of anything other than "it's hopeless my life's gunna be shit" and see outside that. Most of the effort I make goes into getting through work and seeing clients but you're definitely right. Thought of family and friends and their hurt is a huge stopper and has been.

Amber. Can I ask what meds your guy is on? I understand if it's not kosher.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:29 am 
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Hey TJ,

Merry Christmas to you and to everyone else on the forum too!!!

I'm really glad to hear that this episode passed. I was worried about ya, but I didn't know WTH to say and I kinda decided that I'd just pray for you and hope you could find your way through without the shit really hitting the fan.

I had to comment on your thoughts about surviving this episode and thus, having the knowledge and strength to survive more episodes......that's kinda what I did with my Wellbutrin. I took Wellbutrin on and off a few times and each time that's kinda what I was aiming for. I was hoping that the Wellbutrin would let me learn enough to get over the rough spots and that eventually I'd be able to get through on my own....and I did!! It's been well over a year since I've taken Wellbutrin and I've had several more "depressive" episodes, but I've managed them.

I'm not saying to stop your meds, not at all. I'm just saying that the power of getting through an episode or two on your own steam can make a huge difference when the next one comes.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:11 am 
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Hey TJ,

Merry Christmas and Im glad you are feeling better.

I think Romeo and Amy have given you some great advice.

I can totally relate to how you feel when you get in a depressive episode. I have been diagnosed bipolar too and those can be dark times. My answer to those dark times was to use drugs. I rationalized that using a syringe full of dilaudid was better than feeling like dying. I have been doing different drugs my whole life to get rid of that feeling.

After the last relapse about seven months ago, when I was fired for stealing dilaudid, I really had to examine what I could do differently. Im now back up to 8mg sub and on 900mg lithium. I am attending two support groups a week. I got a way better job. I keep busy and think about others instead of myself. I find myself laughing and once in a while think Gosh, Im actually happy. I used to get depressed about every 3 to 4 months. Its been 7 now with no problems.

Yeah maybe its the meds.......but...........the biggest change has been in my thinking. I dont think about my feelings any more. I do what Im suposed to do and try to be a positive helpful person. My attitude is good, my actions are good, and the good feelings follow.

Know that you are loved very much and I hope you have a great holiday.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:24 am 
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Glad to hear it TJ,,,,
and I have no answer to your question, still.......LOL
but Im still HERE for moral support!!!
I know that counts for ... SOMETHING....... :wink:

My hubby's on paxil cr, (now the generic, but probably going back to the paxil due to needing viagra with'm!!)
welbutrin,,,,
AND, the generic Xanax, for when the rage episodes hit,
but he doesn't take it often, I'd say once a month, if that.

i don't mind ya asking.
when he went to see the dr. a month ago, about the "problem" we were having, Um, she wanted to "try" some new
meds ,,,
I remember the FIRST TIME we went thru that,,, and OMG, I'd MUCH RATHER him have to take viagra, a couple times a week
than to EVER take THAT roller coaster ride, EVER AGAIN........

we even seperated for a couple of weeks, after he was first diagnosed, and they were "trying" meds on him.
So far so good with this combination,,,
except, we had to switch him to the generic,
when I lost MY patient assistance thing, for the suboxone.
only one of us, can have a $400 per month script!!!!
But,
Now that IM DOWN to 8mg a day, he's gonna go BACK on the name-brand, and drop the V.
YAY.
He's stuck with me, thru all this addiction crap, and no he hasn't been perfect, either. but we both love each other very much,
and honestly, I guess 13 years together, your willing to "work" thru things.

Good Luck TJ
and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:01 am 
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Wow guys. Thank you for taking the time out of your celebrations to give me your thoughts. Xmas is coming to an end down here now.

Orange doll it's great to hear you doing well. I too seem to get these things every 3 months or so, though the cycling becomes a lot more rapid if they put me on an SSRI. It's good to hear you're going on 7 months without a mood dive that's real heartening to hear. Maybe I'll dive back into the ol CBT thing.

One of the things I latched onto when I was blue this time was ... my job means going to people's houses to fix their computers / networks / IT stuff and a lot of these people are well to do and have nice houses, manage their jobs and families and retirement funds andin wealthy inner-city suburbia. And I'd look at them and think "How the fuck am I ever going to be able to manage my own life let alone all this shit and family and stuff". Just seems wayyy outta reach when I'm trying to manage these other issues. It also sucks when I hear my friends / family / anyone talking about travelling, and how limited I am in travelling while on Sub.

Romeo Amber thanks once again. Eat lots of turkey mofos!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:05 pm 
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TeeJay wrote:

One of the things I latched onto when I was blue this time was ... my job means going to people's houses to fix their computers / networks / IT stuff and a lot of these people are well to do and have nice houses, manage their jobs and families and retirement funds andin wealthy inner-city suburbia. And I'd look at them and think "How the fuck am I ever going to be able to manage my own life let alone all this shit and family and stuff". Just seems wayyy outta reach when I'm trying to manage these other issues. It also sucks when I hear my friends / family / anyone talking about travelling, and how limited I am in travelling while on Sub.



Whoa......I totally relate to this,, in a SLIGHTLY different way...........

Okay, where I live is kinda a "retirement" capital....Like Florida, we are like third on the "list" of number one counties to Retire in the U.S.
I do really high-end finish work, Doors mainly, trim, handrails, that kinda thing. Some doors I finish are sold for OVER 5K
thats JUST the door, not the installation, hardware or anything else, just the door slab and MY finish of course.

So, as you can imagine, a LOT of these products go in MULTI-MILLION dollar BEACHFRONT homes......
Some times I have to go OUT to the place, and get a stain sample, take pics of what to "match" you get the idea.
the people are VERY wealthy, don't work, some haven't EVER worked.
some are shocked to see a 'girl' do this job, and some are just snotty. On the other hand, the vast majority are really nice,
MY POINT
is,,, I totally feel like "I'll never have an ocean front "second" home, let ALONE a FIRST home"
OFTEN,
people say, "oh I bet YOUR HOUSE is beautiful"
well, actually My front door is falling off the hinges, I have a new one, but haven't had the time or patience to deal with it.
NO,
I don't say that..............LOL
They have NO idea the little amount of $$$ I ACTUALLY make,,,, and where I actually live....
I just play nice, and talk a good game ya know.

i do like my job though, it does keep me outta trouble, and my boss gave me a job when NOBODY else would. we also had a great talk the other day about maybe doing profit share or something, by next summer.

Anyways,
I HAD to comment, and let ya know, I feel ya TJ.

Merry Christmas everybody

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:03 pm 
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I am bipolar as well. I wish sometimes that I could just manage it by smoking cigarettes but my doctor wanting me to quit and I did too and I'd especially like to manage that with marijuana which is what always worked the best, but obviously my doctor won't allow that. Honestly, sometimes I feel like I'd be totally perfect with life if I could just take my suboxone and smoke some weed everyone now and then but I'd much rather be on suboxone- sleeping well, not spending money on opiates, and being happy to wake up in the morning But there's still sometimes at night where I get home from work that I wish I could get high. And especially with stoner friends, it's even harder but I can't risk it.

What's worked for me the last few months (as my life has been really tough with losing my house among other things) is just focus on my hobby (music) and working around that. Now that I'm clean, I an get so much further with recording, playing, and mastering things and discovering new music, new ideas that I don't have time to think about the hard stuff. You got to remember it but my interests have helped. I think running or something would too. I still find natural highs in going to concerts and things like that and that also helps.

Have you tried Lamictal? That's what I'm on.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Yeah I'm on Lamictal during the day. 1450 lithium at night, 100 lamictal in the morning. It's an ..okay.. medication, but I don't think it's any better or worse than the other mood stabilisers. When I start taking more than 100mg it turns me stupid!!

What kinda music you do healing?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:16 am 
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Bad news. I ended up using lastnight and this morning. FUCK.

I don't wanna blame my mood episode, but I am still definitely mood cycling. I spent a few days feeling really good about myself and my future, then lastnight after a few beers with some friends, I just got all dark in my head and made an excuse to go home. And that's all I really wanted - to go home and sleep, because I didn't feel social. I'm starting to think alcohol is NOT good for my mood, even in moderation.

Anyway I get home and started feeling all fucked up and lonely and missing my ex so I made a call and went adn got on. I dunno if bipolar played much a role ... but it's fucking annoying in that it's so hard for me to know where the normal / situational feelings end and teh bipolar begins. The weird thing was that ... even though I'd had my Suboxone 6 hours beforehand it still worked.

I dunno. I think since breaking up with my ex I've lost some of my need to stay clean. Like, when I'm feeling like shit and don't value my own life, at least when I was with her I cared about her being hurt, and that was enough to stop me doing this kinda thing. But now she's not around and that consequence isn't there, there's less incentive to say no. And to be honest I felt that safety net go the moment we broke up.

ESPECIALLY now during the holidays, with work off and no study, and friends who are going through their own troubles. I actually can't wait to return to uni ...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:26 am 
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I don't have any magic "fix it all" words for ya, bro....

But, it's gonna be a whole new year, in about a day and a half......

Make it YOUR new fresh start, clean slate, too. :wink:


As I always say,,,, there's NOTHING you can do, now, after the fact, so don't beat yourself up, that never
gets us anywhere good, except back in the bag, yet again.....

I DO HOPE you can learn SOMETHING from the slip though, some way turn it into more tools
against your addiction.............
you are super inteligent, you must know that on some level? Please try and figure out what happened, what took
you to "your dark place"


Hang in there........... I'm in your corner, I'm rootin' for YOU

happy new years

Oh and JUST for the "record"

TEEJAY wrote---
I'm starting to think alcohol is NOT good for my mood, even in moderation.

^^^^^I WHOLE-HEARTEDLY agree, with this statement, here...^^^^^^^


Be Careful Friend

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anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:10 pm 
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Well shit TJ,

Im sorry to hear this. I wishI had some magic words too.

I cant drink alcohol either. I get totaly depressed and suicidal feeling. I dont know why because it didnt use to feel that way.

I guess you need to figure something out. Using heroin isnt making you feel better anymore either is it? It sounds like you feel shitty and guilty. You are really smart and thoughtful. Maybe too smart for your own good. Maybe you need to let go of your quest for answers and just simply let go and believe things will be ok.

Im scared that one of these times you will get some bad heroin or take too much.

You are too valuable of a person to die from this shit.

Are you going to tell anyone about this? (besides us?)


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Orange doll wrote:
You are really smart and thoughtful. Maybe too smart for your own good. Maybe you need to let go of your quest for answers and just simply let go and believe things will be ok.



You are too valuable of a person to die from this shit.





Just for the "record" I Vote for these statements, too...... Or however the hell ya say,

I WHOLE HEARTEDLY AGREE!!!!

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anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:16 pm 
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TJ,

This disease is so baffling. Even the Dr.s don't understand it much less John Q public. But it is a very bad one because it took the life of my dear best friend and the man who saved me from alcoholism. My first sponsor committed suicide because his doctors failed to give him meds. I just think they too don't understand it or how to treat it. This was 5-6 years ago.

Have you tried other Dr.s to see if they have a different approach? I don't know what to say to you except to focus on how your loved ones will deal with the loss if you decide to end your life.

Sorry dude, no words of wisdom this time around.

Happy New Years!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Hey TJ,

Sorry to hear about your slip. My best advice is pretty much the same as some others have said, learn from this experience and use it to make your recovery stronger.

If you let yourself get bogged down in the doom and gloom of "I used again", it'll drive you to use even more.

BTW, what the hell are you doing with this dude's phone number who scored the H for ya? You know better than that. Throw that damn number out. Actually, PM me his phone number so I can call him and threaten to shove a kangaroo up his ass if he ever sells ya dope again, then throw his number out!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:51 pm 
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I'm so bummed for you and wish I could make it all better! I have no idea what it's like to have to deal with bipolar, but I'm so sorry that you struggle. It seems that the depressive part and alcohol don't mix and I hope you have some realization about the reaction you have to the combination.

Please don't let this slip continue and spiral into something even worse! Think of how far you've come and what you've been through to get to the decent place you are now.

You are worth every effort you can make for yourself and any effort we could make on your behalf. You make a real difference in our lives. So struggle through this and come out the other side! Life will be better again!

Hugs,
Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:16 pm 
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Where are you, TeeJay???

Hope your allright......


I know it's only been about 24 hours since your last post, but given the situation, I was just starting to worry.....

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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