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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:19 pm 
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I wanted to copy and paste a post I saw on another site, this was very interesting to me, how many of you agree with this persons post...it said...

Dr. Urschel (who was on the Dr. Phil show a few months ago) posts here and said that some people have permanent damage to their natural opioid production and will always need some kind of opioid top feel normal

I agree with him and think some people might just have a better quality of life if they are on suboxone for life. A low dose maybe...but then again you cant really get "high" from suboxone

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:32 am 
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Hey there,

Put in a link to the site, and I will paste it and the link in your message for you.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:40 pm 
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I see nothing wrong with staying on Suboxone permanently if it keeps one from relapse and provides a better quality of life!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:49 pm 
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Yeah I'm sure it was probably psychological but I felt horrible the months I was clean before starting Suboxone. I have heard before that opiate abuse can cause permanent damage but I'm not sure how true it is. Ultimately it's gotta be up to the person if their doc forces them off Sub how well do they expect them to do afterwords? I mean seriously..... I don't plan on tapering off anytime soon and have no problems staying on it for life.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:03 pm 
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I hear a lot of people talking about getting off suboxone and that this is the main goal. I have tried to titrate from suboxone (I was on methadone for four years at 160 mg! before suboxone) but I always ended up a mess! I am talking three, four months later. Defining "mess"- emotional rollercoaster", insomnia, my heart felt like it would pound out of my chest. My biggest problem once off the suboxone (or methadone for that matter) is my mind wont function correctly. I cant concentrate on one thing at a time- I call it "100 mile an hour brain" I am not able to shut it off. eventually I would relapse, looking for that "ill just do it once" time high- or relief in my case- so I went back to my doctor straight away. My true goal in life is to be a great mother, help my husband to provide our family with stabibility and raise two succesfull children and mantain a wonderful marriage, beyond that- nothing else really matters- in other words if staying on suboxone keeps me from the ups and downs of titrating and taking a month of relapse to mess up everything I have accomplished- Ill greatfuly take the suboxone! hands down. My doctor has me on Suboxone (12mg a day) (I honestly believe people that have spent years on methadone at such high doses will need a slightly higher maintnance dose than those who've not) my dose works great for me, along with another anxiety medication. these two medications together have given me my LIFE back.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:42 pm 
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I also was on methadone for yrs. When my clinic was destroyed by Katrina I went through some horrfic withdraws. I thought I learned my lesson. NOT, Subox was new at the time I think doc were only allowed 30 patients at that time (around there). So I just went back to the methadone viva a pain clinic. I stop taking the methadone and my doc gave me roxydondone. That lasted a few mos. 2 mos ago I swith to subox. MAN life is sooo much better. I am no longer worrying about running out of meds. No longer worrying about the count down. How many I can take, I only have this many left, I can only take this many. is this enough to catch a buzz. I have alot to do tody but I can only take this many or I will run out. Then the running the streets looking for more when I do run out. Where and how can I get the money to buy them. 20$ a pill, 50$ for an oxy80 man I spent some money. That is all over with thanks to subox. I will stay on it untill the day I die or the day comes where I can feel this good and function this well without it. (sorry for the rant).

Darren


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:06 pm 
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Where and how can I get the money to buy them. 20$ a pill, 50$ for an oxy80 man I spent some money. That is all over with thanks to subox. I will stay on it untill the day I die or the day comes where I can feel this good and function this well without it.


I don't mean to be a B*tch, but this sounds like a drug commercial. There is something so important that many people are not thinking about when they start taking Suboxone, and that is getting involved with a treatment program of some sort. This quote makes Suboxone sound like the answer to all of one's addiction issues and that is NOT the case. Replacing an opiate addiction with Suboxone is not the answer, nor the intention on why Suboxone was created. Yes, some people have a much better quality of life taking it, but I strongly suggest that each and every person on it look deep within themselves as to why they misused opiates initially.There are so many reasons we self medicate, and until we figure out why we have done this, we will not be able to have a better quality of life.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:20 pm 
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Didn't mean to sound like a commercial. I think each individual must seeks their own soul and do what is right for them. Saying that, I have been down that road and found it helpfull. But it is not for me. For me subox is a maricale and It saved my life. So yea I do have high praise for it's use. Now that's what works for me. Once again each person needs to make that decision for themselves.

Darren


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:41 pm 
I'm with you Darren! Suboxone has been a miracle for me also. I have only been on it for a month, but it has made all the difference in the world! I spent big $$ on an intensive outpatient treatment program and many hours at NA meetings and could not manage to stay clean. That is not at all to say those modalities were a waste of time. I just found it impossible to work the programs worth a crap while being in withdrawals/PAWS/whatever so bad that it took everything in me just to get up, get dressed and get to the meetings! Now, with Sub, I have normal sleep patterns, normal motivation, and clear enough thoughts to begin to really delve into the issues that led to my addiction and to work that much more productively on my recovery and my future! In short, Sub has allowed me to stay clean and begin to get my life back. I am grateful!


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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 9:22 am 
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Just wanted to throw my two cents in. I tried cold turkey twice this past year and lasted about a month both times. The physical withdrawls were absolute hell but the depression and anxiety that kicked in after the physical wds were gone were a force to be reckoned with. PAWS they call it. I was an emotional basketcase and just couldn't take feeling like shit all the time. I relapsed and then tried to taper with miserable results. I believe suboxone will save my life. I am due to be inducted May 11 and it's not soon enough.

I have struggled with severe depression and anxiety my whole life and when I was prescribed oxys for pain for the first time in my life I felt happy. Of course that didn't last and now I'm utterly miserable having become so badly addicted to them but I don't think my body has EVER produced enough feel good chemicals on it's own.. I think being on suboxone is akin to being on "endorphin therapy" it's going to make up for what my body cant do on its own and on it I'll be able to feel "normal". But I do agree with getting into some kind of aftercare. I experienced horrible things in my life. I lost my mom to alcoholism and opiate addiction 5 years ago. She was only 47 years old and I never really dealt with the issues I had from my childhood, or lack of one, living in a crazy house, abuse, etc etc...I only learned to numb myself to those feelings. I plan on getting into therapy and maybe going back to NA. I did go to a few NA meetings but stopped once I relapsed. I felt too ashamed to go again while using but I miss it and once I start suboxone i want to return. I could very well be one of those people that will need to be on opiate maintenence for life. If it means keeping myself out of the insanity of active addiction then thats fine. I also struggle with pain issues so if it helps that then I'm all for it.

Anything has to be better then how I'm living now because at the moment I'm not even living, just existing. I can't wait to start sub and get my life back.


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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 12:36 am 
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i can say ill be on suboxone prolly for the rest of my life after joining this webiste and talking to a few members back and fourth. at first i wanted to stop but i realized ill never be able to live a normal life with be on painkillers so suboxone is my only option. im on sub for addiction and pain mang. i have a bad knee injury and sugery is not a option because i only injured one of the 3 major ligs in my knee and my dr said it would be way to much to go in for only 1 so he wrote me a special perscription for a pricey brace but i was addicted to oxy contin so i never got it cause the oxy massed my pain. once i got of oxy and started sub the pain all came back to the point were it was not possiable to walk some days. any ways so we increased my sub and it started to work great for my pain. so pretty much i will stay on sub for the rest of my life unless i win the lottery and have 50 thousand for sugery cause its not covered under my insurance.


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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 4:13 pm 
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Matt2 wrote:
Yeah I'm sure it was probably psychological but I felt horrible the months I was clean before starting Suboxone. I have heard before that opiate abuse can cause permanent damage but I'm not sure how true it is. Ultimately it's gotta be up to the person if their doc forces them off Sub how well do they expect them to do afterwords? I mean seriously..... I don't plan on tapering off anytime soon and have no problems staying on it for life.


My suboxone doctor, who has been treating drug addicts and alcoholics for decades told me that your brain chemistry DOES, in fact change with years of opiate abuse and some people just need to stay on some kind of opiate replacement therapy like Methadone or suboxone.

I'm definitely open to it, being a middle-aged chronic relapser who has been using for over 30 years.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:07 pm 
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I'm a strong advocate for long term Suboxone use, if that's what someone thinks is best for them. I feel that after a certain point, your brain chemistry is changed forever. I feel that if Suboxone is not putting any negative things in your life, not ruining your finances, and not altering your perception of reality then why not stay on it? There are people who are clean for 10 years, then relapse and spend another 10 getting high. I have a risk for addiction built into my genes, since my father was a drug abuser and died from it, so I feel that I am vulnerable I also know that I am very compulsive when it comes to doing something that I want to do, and figure "I'll worry about it later" which can and will get me in trouble. I've been doing my best to rid my mind of compulsions, but everything I've worked for and everything I stand to achieve, is not worth losing because I stopped taking Suboxone when I wasn't comfortable to do so.

If you think it will benefit you to stay on it then do so. My biggest fears are actually these health companies, and what roadblocks they are going to construct to make it a pain in the ass to stay on it. Everything was fine for me for the past 17 or 18 months, but now they enacted some new rules and I got horrible screwed over this week and extorted for a lot of money and time by these people. I can only imagine how hard it will be in a few years, and THAT is what scares me about taking it long term.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:22 pm 
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Hi, I am fairly new here. Been on Subs for 6 months, but trying to wean off due to it changing my personality and making me a mean person. May I ask what PAWS is? I am worried!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:04 pm 
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darren wrote:
I also was on methadone for yrs. When my clinic was destroyed by Katrina I went through some horrfic withdraws. I thought I learned my lesson. NOT, Subox was new at the time I think doc were only allowed 30 patients at that time (around there). So I just went back to the methadone viva a pain clinic. I stop taking the methadone and my doc gave me roxydondone. That lasted a few mos. 2 mos ago I swith to subox. MAN life is sooo much better. I am no longer worrying about running out of meds. No longer worrying about the count down. How many I can take, I only have this many left, I can only take this many. is this enough to catch a buzz. I have alot to do tody but I can only take this many or I will run out. Then the running the streets looking for more when I do run out. Where and how can I get the money to buy them. 20$ a pill, 50$ for an oxy80 man I spent some money. That is all over with thanks to subox. I will stay on it untill the day I die or the day comes where I can feel this good and function this well without it. (sorry for the rant).

Darren


darren man I feel like I could have said the same words!I feel the same way.Really.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:22 pm 
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Shelway makes a valid point. Too many people I meet think suboxone is a miracle drug that cures us from addiction. Early on I would preach the same thing. I couldn't get through a conversation about recovery without mentioning how it was suboxone that is saving my life. Doing this sobriety thing for a few years now I realized it is one piece to the puzzle. A very impotant piece to me, but still just one of many things I do to stay sober. You can say the same for anti-depressants. They can be life savers to those of us who sufer from depression but we have to use that time, while our depression is lifted, to figure some things out, to make some major changes in our lives. My goal with suboxone is the same as my goal with anti-depressants. I am trying to get down as low as I can with these meds but still be mentally healthy. That is where the other work comes in. If you are a 12 stepper, if you see a therapist, if you found god or discovered meditation, we have to change our way of life. When we take something so time consuming as using drugs out of our lives we have to replace it with something constructive and possitive, IMO anyway. I used to be on 40mg of paxil and now I'm on 20. I used to be on 24mg of suboxone and now I'm on 3. I will probably stay at those levels for life, or mabey not. All I know is all the other work and self examination I've done over the years made that possible. Suboxone a miracle? Absolutely IMO, but we have to do more. Great comments from everyone, I love reading how others view long term suboxone use.

PS. I post my comments from my I-touch which has no spell check. Please excuse my spelling. Spell check has made me lazy over the years.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:42 am 
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I am a recovering alcoholic who has recently enrolled in the suboxone program in my area. i will soon be 40 and have been battling alcohol since i was 13. i started the treatment program rollercoaster at that age and it never stopped until i discovered the "wonder drug" suboxone. yes, to me it is a "wonder drug". with my track record anything that has helped to keep me out of jail for more than 5 months is a wonder. i do say helped because i agree with what Smoothy1125 has said. there is more to it(recovery) than suboxone. but for me the alcohol being removed from my life is the start then everything else falls into place.as i said the treatment program rollercoaster started at that age of 13. so didnt the incarceration period. being allergic to booze as i am(whenever i drink i break out in handcuffs) i have very very seldom had periods more than 3-4 months not incarcerated. today im working on my 6th month. YEAH!!. i know, too some of you your like what 6 months. well that has been my pattern. i drink, then drive then POOF handcuffs. so in a way i guess i owe corrections my life cuz if i were to drink the way i wanted i probably would be dead but here i am. with suboxone i have relationships that i have never had with my family. my sons call me dad today. my daughter wants to ahng out with me sometimes. LOL! and my girl is in bed with me when i go to sleep and also when i wake up. now i dont just take the "wonder drug" and everything is better. i go to groups with others in the program i talk to my family bout issues that arise and we deal with them. now in the beginning of my bable here i said I am a recovering alcoholic. being that suboxone was designed for opiate addiction there are not many of my kind in my program. 3 that i know of. that is another reason i am writing this drivle. in hopes that there is some one else out there that may be going through what i have or am. with my track record anything that can keep me sober more than a day is a wonder. so thanks for the site to share my life and anyone that can discuss there issuses is welcome to respond.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:51 pm 
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Marcyplayground - I am entirely interested in your story and that you are taking suboxone for alcoholism. I take sub for opiates, but I also used to like to drink a little too much. When I started sub, I found my desire to drink was almost entirely eliminated. I just didn't care to drink. If you don't mind me asking, how did you end up in a sub program for alcoholism? How do you find this is working for you? What did you think about becoming dependent on an opiate when that is not something you had already been doing?

In terms of the thread topic, I don't see anything wrong with taking sub long term. I would imagine your brain chemistry does permanently alter and if not, then it is most certainly semi-permanently altered in my opinion and it takes a very long time for that to change back. A lot longer than most people are able and willing to tolerate.

For the person who asked what PAWS is; it is Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms or Syndrome (I think symptoms) and it is everything that comes after physical withdrawal that technically isn't physical (although I think it is certainly chemical and thus physical in some sense). PAWS can occur after withdrawal from any type of drug, alcohol included and it can last anywhere from 3 months to 2 years. It gets better over time, but can cause some cognitive deficits such as problems with fluid thought processes, memory deficits, depression, anxiety, moodiness, fatigue, etc. You can google it and get a pretty good idea of what you are looking forward to if you quit sub or any other drug.

I have been on sub 3 years. I feel better on sub than I ever did off of sub. I went off for 3 months and although it was livable, the PAWS were intense (got better over time but barely measureable day to day). I have chronic pain which I find to be a problem because I can't take narcotics normally. I chose to go back on suboxone long term after conducting substantial research. I am happy. I have a good life. I feel good. I feel better than I did prior to narcotics.

In terms of long term recovery programs, I would have to agree that for a lot of people this is necessary. However, if you plan on staying on sub forever, I don't think this is necessary for every person. I do go to therapy, but even if I didn't, I think I would be fine with just the sub. I didn't go to therapy the first couple years on sub and didn't have a relapse problem or poor quality of life. Most people I know claim I am one of the most functional people they have ever met. I don't really believe that I became an addict because of some character defect or some problem I need to correct. I believe I became an addict because there is a chemical defecit in my brain and I was seeking a sense of normalcy. Counseling isn't going to fix that. Suboxone does, so there is really no need for counseling when I am no longer in need of anything. I feel fine. If I were to go off suboxone again, I would get into a recovery program of some sort, but it is only needed if I don't have sub. That isn't the case for everyone. But for some of us, we don't really need counseling.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:13 am 
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I've been on suboxone for 1.5yrs now and my life has been amazing. My doctor is tapering me down and I'm not liking it. It seems there is nothing I can say that will change his mind. When he finally takes me off I know I'm going to be right back in his office a few months later trying to get back on it again. It's the only thing that works for me. What can I say to my doctor to make him keep me on it?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:02 am 
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Hello ChazReds,
Yes it is unfortunate that some drs do not see this as a loug term maintenance treatment. For whatever reason he/sne wants you off the medicine.
Does your dr do this with all of his patients?
If so I would start looking for a new dr asap. If you can not convince him to leave you on your current dose begin your search.
..
Just my suggestion. .

Razor....


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