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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:24 pm 
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Took last opiate this AM Starting tomorrow, sometime between 9AM and Noon I guess.....8mg subutex for three days then dr switching me over to suboxone.

Questions:

1) I believe in "less is more" so, I think I will start with 4 mg with hopes I get needed relief - thoughts?

2) I have mild Emphysema, anyone know of any potential issues with that condition and sub? Breathing problems?

3) Also have some cardio issues from heart surgery 5 years ago.....anyone aware of any cardio issues with sub? Where should bp numbers be in comparison to my current baseline? Same, lower, higher? I tend to be on the low side as a general rule of them for me.

4) as mentioned, my last opiate diesel was 9AM, it is a time release opiate. I am thinking 24-30 hours should put me in the OK to take time frame. Is the PWD chart reliable, or is the 24-30 hour period plenty of time?

5) I also have to take care of my two little ones, they are 4 and 6, awesome kids though - does anyone think I will be in too rough of shape to be able to care for them? I do the usual school drop off / pick up play group etc etc. Hubby close by, just in case.

I have asked my doctor of course and have been told there should be no issues, but, I thought I would mention here for real life experiences. Since I went to a "sub mill" health center, I really do not feel they took much time to really look into me, they are there to make $$$$, get people in and out with their prescription in hand.

Happy Easter everyone, I have lots to pray for at church today as I begin my journey to beating back my opiate demons.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:50 pm 
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Hi! Unfortunately I don't have many answers, I'm not a doctor, but just wanted to reach a hand out to you. Congratulations for wanting to start buprenorphine treatment! As far as less is more, of course it would be great to start on smallest dose as possible, but cravings can be an issue if dose is too small. As far as BP, I know it can be dangerous with a full agonist, this is a partial, so it wouldn't be as harmful especially if your doctor knows and approves. As far as avoiding precipitated withdrawal, everyone is different it seems, what's long enough for some, was not long enough for others, even judging by cows sheet. I know I'm not much help, a, doctor is more suited to answer, I'm just letting you know you're not alone and this is a great forum, hopefully someone will come along soon to help. Stay strong and keep posting to let us know how you are!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 8:27 pm 
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Thanks for reaching out pug mommy that means a lot.


I am at 12 hours and this is a breeze!! I'm just kidding of course.....right now I'd be taking my nighttime "boost", but that's not going to happen. Also, I usually wake up at 4AM and take a pill so that I can finish my nights sleep. I expect from 4AM to probably Noontime or so (28-30 hours) is going to be the roughest part of things, no doubt.


But, I am determined, I am done D-O-N-E with this horrible habit and all the baggage it comes with.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 8:32 pm 
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Welcome to the forum Longgone. This is a great place to get other's experience s and you ll find that many of us are doing quite well with our treatment.
I myself didn't understand suboxone treatment till i found this forum.
Pugmommy is right, congratulations on starting your new life.
Im not a dr either, but have had experience s with induction s.
I read on another thread of yours that your tolerance is at around 140mgs a day. Oxy painpills?
I believe this was where I was at in the begining several years ago. If you use the COWS scale honestly, then I see no problem with your induction. We generally don't use the clock as a way to measure WD, but in my opinion you should be ready if your in moderate to severe wd. This usually takes place in the 24 to 30, 36 hour range. Others can get it done earlier but its all about tolerance and just what your coming off of. Methadone, heroin and fentanyl do take louger. So I think you ll be ok after a day or so of not useing.
Remember, the more severe the wd, the better and faster Buprenorphine works. Are you inducting at home I take it?
If this is the case, 2mgs to start then see how you feel. Its not uncommon to go to 4 mgs in the first hour.

As far as taking care of your family, that ll depend on you and how you handle your wd before treatment starts. If hubby is on standby this is good.

Stay intouch with us Louggone. Also, you might want to go over to Dr Junigs Talkzone blog. Really good stuff there too..

This will work out for you, take itfrom an ole pillhead himself, after induction I asked myself, "vod, why didnt I do this sooner"....

Razor ..


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:50 pm 
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Hi, I'm queenie. Congratulations and welcome to your new life. I think Razor said just about everything I want to say. You can do it. I will be thinking about you and sending good thoughts.

Please let us know how you are doing and as for me, Sub is the best thing that ever happened to me.
If you want to keep busy while time passes go back and read my story if you want to.

My love to you and my hellos to my old friends here.


Queenie


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:26 pm 
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I hope it goes well for you. One thing I've seen Dr Junig (username 'suboxdoc'- runs this forum/awesome guy) say is that if you do go into precipitated withdrawal to just continue with suboxone as opposed to taking oxy. Of course if you wait long enough to take the sub PW should not happen. Subox was an amazing thing for me and is for many, many others. Congrats on taking a huge step in your life!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:08 am 
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Hi Longgone!

I can't really answer your questions with any confidence because I just started on subs Friday the first and hopefully only time. Just wanted to say welcome and I can share my experiences so far.

1) starting amount - I too thought less might be better but after asking a similar question here, all told me to listen to my doctor. I had a different experience. We talked about 30-40 min, did a full history and physical exam, UA and kidney and liver function with a blood draw. I was probably in with her for an hour. She has me taking 8 mg in the am and 8 in the pm.

4) starting time - I waited 46 hrs from my last 30 mg dose of methadone. I was in moderate wd - runny nose, chills/sweating, aches & pains. I believe my DOC is slower acting than yours but I don't know how the dosage amounts compare so I really have know idea if similar time for you would be waiting unnecessarily. I was typically using 50-60 mg/day for almost 18 months u till the last week or so in prep for this.

5) kids - I had no problem with my children after taking the sub. I have 2 yr old twins and a 4 yr old - all girls. While in wd I was OK enough to have "movie time", laying on the couch watching them while we all watched Frozen and Cinderella for the gazzilionth time. My husband was also nearby. Once on the sub I was fine, actually great. Focused on them not wondering how long my supply would last and if I could "afford" another pill to have the energy and motivation to something, anything. That was my motivation for getting into sub. I realized I needed to be a better mom. I mean they were, dressed nicely, had nice things but I wasn't ""there" if you know what I mean.

Good luck! Day 3 of the subs have me feeling optimist. I hope you will too! Being only a few days ahead of you I'm sure we can cheer each other on :D

PS - get some sleep while you can. It might be just me because I have a late dose but sleep has been fleeting at best.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:36 pm 
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Lasted about 27 hours with a COWS score almost 15 and took 4mg.

I was really getting bad and just could not wait any longer.

I am now 40 minutes out and I feel better, but not that much better. Wondering if I should take another 2mg at least, which is what I will do at the one hour level if things do not improve.

Luckily, I have all afternoon to get feeling ok and with the support of hubby, I even have the evening pretty much free. Mommy doesn't feel good kids so let's be nice to mommy day.

I feel so guilty for getting myself to this place.......what did I do to myself??

More later but first:

How soon should I wait until taking more? How "comfortable" should I feel on day one?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:36 pm 
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You could take 2-4 mg. 8 mg the first day is usually the minimum I have seen. If still craving or any withdrawals tonight another 4 mg would be OK. Keep in contact with your doctor or clinic so you stay within their parameters.
You've started! Stay the course.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:42 pm 
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How "comfortable" should I feel on day one?

People often report an overwhelming sense of relief 'normal' within a couple of hours of induction. It varies, but remember, long-term relief and sobriety is the goal.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:43 pm 
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If you have time, read through some old posts about dosage, absorption, and try to read through dr. junig's talkzone posts...it's all good info. The first day can be unsettling, because you don't know what to expect, but you should get to a point physically, where you are not experiencing w/d symptoms. that is the goal of suboxone maintenance, get on a dose that keeps you stable (i.e. no sweats, chills, stomach issues..basic withdraw symptoms). You're brain and body will take some time to adjust to the medication, I've been on 8mg/day for over 2 years, so it's easy for me to say don't overthink it, or get too anxious, but I do remember feeling that way for a couple days. Mentally, I know a lot of people worry about how they're supposed to feel, if they're taking too much or too little. The dose range really varies from person to person, that's b/c each state has a different limit on the max amount a doc can prescribe (8-16mg/day is very average). After your brain/body adjusts, hopefully, you'll get up take your meds, and go about your day, and then repeat. If you're still experiencing w/d symptoms, then maybe you'll need to speak to your doc about upping the dose, but yes for subs, less is more. As addicts, we always want more of everything, but this med works great for those who are looking for recovery and trying to turn their life around. Physically, like a said, you want to feel normal with your dose for 24 hours- and since sub has a long half life, it will build up in your system, so when you wake up the next morning, you still shouldn't feel sick. Hopefully this helps, but this forum has tons of info available to you, and you can read about others experiences to maybe give you a better idea of what to expect going forward.

Don't worry about how you got to this point, just be grateful that you're doing something to move past your addiction lifestyle, and you can have a great future.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:37 pm 
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Louggone, your doing well it sounds. You ve also been given good sound advice from others that have been there plus a DR and a newcomer. your on your way. hopefully in the next two or three hours you will be feeling great. It does take the med 60 to 90 mins for full effect, if you feel you need more just go slowly and you should be fine. congrats, and kiss thoses pills good bye...razor


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:58 pm 
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I Appreciate all the help and support. I have felt pretty good, up until now and after having had some food, it just isn't settling right, feeling queasy in my stomach which I will attribute to a new drug.

Am going to take an additional 2mg and report back later.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:19 pm 
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I would take at least 8 mg today. It's important to initially cover as many of your opiate receptors as possible. In order to have that "normal" feeling the first day I had to take 12 mg. You can always back your dose off later. I went from 16 mg to 4mg in a few month's time with absolute ease later on.

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:42 pm 
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I'm so glad you got the worst behind you. Every day you will feel better, please trust that. The chemicals in your brain are being thrown in a different direction, but it doesn't take long to adjust. I really felt for you having to go without before hand, I wasn't that strong and experienced precipitated withdrawal, you are part that danger. Is nausea your only symptom?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:44 pm 
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Oops past not part. I always get something wrong lol.watching doctor Junigs YouTube videos really helped me in the beginning.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:59 pm 
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Off to bed -- hoping I sleep.

I ended up doing 8 total, 4 at 1:00, 2 at 5 and the last 2 at 1030.

Pugmommy, the advice you gave about covering those receptors with at least 8 was most helpful.

I see my sub doctor tomorrow - she will now give me a month prescription for suboxone, even though I think I prefer subutex ( based on what I read here -- my insurance covers it and I had no issues with subutex,so why switch?).

Thanks for all the help and I will update tomorrow -- hubby has been very supportive, he took tomorrow off to help out!!

I think he is sucking up to me big time because it will be his turn in two weeks (we planned it that way), yup, we are co-dependent for sure. We are committed to ending this vicious cycle though, we are done.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:31 am 
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You're welcome! Sleep well!

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:47 pm 
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So......day two much rougher than day one. PLEASE HELP.....if you can read everything, great, otherwise, all you really need to read is th not sentence and advise.

My question that has me totally puzzled is: in order to feel better, should I take more or am I taking too much. What is the driver for me feeling this way (nausea & blues)??

I am very confused about whether I am doing too much or not enough. I've read so much that I am totally confused and find that it seems even doctors do not know what is best. My doc is great, but, I just don't know if she knows what is best for me, after all, she is a suboxone doctor and does not know me or my medical background at all - or des that not even matter.

Last night, my primary issue was nausea - that continues to be a problem along with simply feeling sad and blue. Maybe it just takes a few days to adjust?

Doctor prescribed 16 mg per day, 8mg in AM and 8mg in PM. I have felt that was way too much for me. I saw Dr today and she told me to continue on 16mg per day and to do 8mg to start the day followed by two doses of 4mg, one in the afternoon and the final 4 at night. I just feel that is way too much for a person coming off of 80-100mg daily of OxyContin.

Today I started with 4mg and have done an additional 2mg three times. Nausea.

So, to repeat the question, is 16mg indeed too much for me, basing my day on 8mg - maybe even that may be too much? What will make me feel better - should I do more or am I doing too much, even at 8mg??


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:49 pm 
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Hi I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. My personal belief is its not enough, in the beginning I took 24 mgs per day, coming from methadone, it's a strong beast. I took 2 8 mgs at the same time every morning then another 8mg in the early evening. Now remember, I'm not a doctor and I'm not telling you to do the same, but just like you I was only taking a little at a time with not much relief until an educated friend told me I wasn't taking enough for induction. You're past pw danger. When I did this is when I finally "got it". I'm gonna go back and read your post slower, just wanted to hurry a reply to you

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