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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:20 pm 
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Also if I am experiencing a withdrawal or adjustment to the suboxone or a PWD to the methadone, how long does this usually last ?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:40 pm 
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How long do you think the adjustment or withdrawal type symptoms usually last? I still feel mild chills and was not able to sleep well last night. I do not understand the way it works in terms of the subox taking over the receptors bonded with methadone. Does this basically push those off or do the stay till they are ready to leave?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Thanks Dr. Junig! The question I think that Godfrey and I are trying to come to a conclusion over is the pain relieving effects of buprenorphine. If I am understanding him correctly, he believes that pain relief only works when someone is at small doses of buprenorphine. And that there is no use in dividing up a 16mg dose into 4 doses every six hours because it won't help the pain. My understanding is that it doesn't matter if you are on a small dose or a larger dose (like 4mg every 6 hours), but that the analgesic properties still work for 4 to 6 hours even at larger doses. I think Godfrey believes that once you are over a "ceiling level" dose, that the analgesic properties don't work anymore.

If I'm misrepresenting what you are saying, Godfrey, please clarify. This is definitely important to me because I do give this advice to chronic pain sufferers on buprenorphine.

Equitalk, I am very happy for you that you seem to have waited long enough to get the positive effects from suboxone!! Yay!

Amy

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:07 pm 
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Hey Equitalk :)

Since methadone stays in ur system longer than most opiates, u have to wait a bit longer from ur last dose. U waited 72 hrs, which is good. But u still may have some precipitated withdrawal. PW will finally go away, just keep dosing ur suboxone as prescribed.

I don't really know exactly how long it'll last if u are experiencing pw and it's probably different from person to person. It will go away though. From some of the experiences I've read on this forum, ur symptoms aren't to bad, so maybe you'll be feeling completely better in no time.

I don't know all about receptors and being knocked off of em lol but pw is only temporary, hopefully it'll make ya feel better knowing it will be gone soon. Godfrey only had pw a couple hours I think, is that right Godfrey :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:39 pm 
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Understand that from a 'scientific' standpoint, there are no clear answers to Amy's questions above. The good and maybe bad thing is that the psychological issues are usually much more significant than and chemical impact of the timing of dosing. In general, doctors who use bupe to treat pain like to dose more frequently. The reasons given are that dosing more often provides a steadier blood level, just in case there are analgesic properties to the non-mu receptor actions of buprenorphine.. and also (and more importantly) because people FEEL better when they dose more often, because of psychological factors.

To explain the first reason-- effects at the mu receptor are subject to a ceiling, and so it is hard come up with a mechanism for better analgesial from more-frequent dosing, as long as the blood level stays above that ceiling. Analgesia travels with the other opioid effects, at least the mu-receptor analgesia. There may be things going on that we don't really know about; for example norbuprenorphine levels vary with dosing, spiking after a dose and decreasing as the hours pass after a dose, and norbuprenorphine is an opioid agonist that impacts the gut, but doesn't cross into the brain. Maybe, though, high levels of norbuprenorphine play a role that we don't currently recognize.

Buprenorphine also has effects at other opioid receptors, as an antagonist at kappa and delta receptors and a partial agonist at the 'nociceptin receptor'. None of these receptors are known to play large roles in pain control, but they do have roles in emotions-- and emotions are closely linked with chronic pain.

As for the second reason, one of the things I hear about the most, in people with chronic pain, is that they have no escape, day after day or hour after hour. Even if something provides a tiny bit of relief when taken every few hours, people find that relief very beneficial.

A couple easier things.... as Jenn wrote, the anxiety and chills will go away very quickly. It is often very difficult to change from methadone to buprenorphine, and waiting 72 hours is about the minimun time before starting bupe. But things will only get better from here!! Tomorrow you will wake up feeling almost entirely 'normal'-- so hang in there, and contratulations!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:21 am 
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Just checking in day 2. So I took my evening dose last night at 7pm. I had experienced mild chills and withdrawal type symptoms yesterday and did not sleep well the night before. Last night was much much better. I went thru about an hour of sweats and chills and then it went away. I slept from about 9pm until my alarm went off at 6am. No more chills or sweats and I feel like the fog is lifting. I actually feel kind of normal. I am still questioning whether it's better to take the 16mg once a day or split it am and pm as my docs advice. So far it seems to be working so I'll stick with it. Anyone have any thoughts? I was on a high dose of methadone for four years prior. It feels good to be rid of the awful clinic which I felt hostage too and degraded by for years. Thanks all.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:52 am 
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Hello Equitalk,
Sounds to me that you have made it!! The hard part is all over and the great points of being on Buprenorphine has begun.
Congratulations. . As you have read sometimes is it no small feat jumping from methadone to suboxone. You ve done it!
I see it as freedom, so welcome to freedom
Dosing?, well it has been said by the pros here, meening our Dr J, that once a day is the best way . This is to break the habit of reaching for something because of how you feel. On needing to feel something. The fact that you are used to dosing once aday already, Id maybe try to keep doing this. Once in the morning and get on with your day. Just an opinion. Twice a day is VERY common. . So..it really is up to you.

Best of luck and glad you made ..

Razor


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:40 am 
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Thanks so much everyone for the great feedback. I feel like I have not felt in years. I am also a person who had a full roux N y gastric bypass and think the sublingual dosing is going to be much better. I always struggled with my methadone and tried split doses etc etc to no avail. I don't feel doped up at all. I am not nodding off for the first time in years. On another topic how is your sex life on subs ?? Mine was bad on methadone. No drive and I tried androgel and am now on bi monthly testosterone injection. The years of opiates wore my level way down and subsuquently my drive too.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:09 am 
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Hey Equitalk,
Welcome to the miracle drug that is buprenorphine. You've made it. Not a small or easy thing, to say the least.

As to your question, I've found a definite increase in sexual energy. It was always OK during my active addict years, but definitely decreased. I noticed an improvement almost right away on subs. Not sure why that would be exactly. As you've read on this thread thanks to the participation of Dr. Junig, these are complex matters. In many case, they really don't know precisely what's happening in the brain.

All this by way of telling you that I really have no clue :P

I just take the stuff. and let it do its thing....

Best wishes,
Godfrey


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:42 am 
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lol Godfrey that's funny :)

Well I don't have much to add but for myself, I have ups and downs, meaning sometimes I'm good in that area and sometimes I hit a spell where I want to be left alone ;) and I know that's actually life so I'm not going to say if it's from taking buprenorphine or not.... because who really knows. Buprenorphine does have a partial opiate in it.

I think I'm just at a point in life that it's normal to have ups and downs because I'm 40, possibly hitting early menopause, getting upset with my fiancé doesn't help him either (just kidding). So could the suboxone be playing a role in that, absolutely I guess, but life in general can also. But I will say, I don't have a lot of action going on last few months. But I've been on suboxone for yrs and it's definitely not been like that even half the time.

I know there's others who think different and I'm sure they'll be around to give u their experience also. But I'm sure glad u got through ur induction and feeling better. U had a pretty smooth transition compared to some ppl that's came from methadone to suboxone, so that should make u happy :)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:17 am 
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Quote:
lol Godfrey that's funny


Hah! Jennifer...I think it's the emoticon that did it for you

It's definitely the funniest one. Kind of half crazy...

I know this is unsolicited, but I'd say you're right about it being life. You can't be expected
to swoon with love every time your guy walks in when you've got a major issue going on.
You're mad at the guy, and resentful, which is just what a sane, normal person would be...

Not that we're sane normal people. But you know what I mean. :P


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:32 am 
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It's amazing just how normal I feel after just 2 days. I find myself sitting here not thinking about when can I take my next dose. I actually just feel normal which is fantastic. I don't feel any pain either. I think so much of my pain was in my head. So whatever it is it's better. It took me almost a year to get the nerve up to give up the methadone and I am so glad I am done. I never ever have to feel held hostage by a clinic again.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:06 pm 
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Equitalk it is amazing isn't it? I remember those first few days after my induction and that normal feeling I wanted all those years of using, I had finally found it again.

I remember thinking it was to good to be true, no medicine could ever take cravings away and just let me feel normal..... but it did. I get so angry when I hear ppl talking so negative about suboxone because they don't know what they are talking about imo. How could u look down on something that can help turn our lives around like it does. I just don't get it.

And Godfrey ur right, it must have been the crazy emoji lol I wish we had the thumbs up emoji :)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:12 pm 
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5:00pm and still at work for another hour. Going to take my evening dose in an hour. Still feel 100% better. No more chills no more sweats no more anxiety. Just kinda normal feeling and no cravings.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:50 pm 
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So I am now on my 3rd full day of suboxone after the 4 years of 75mg of methadone. Last night was my second good night of sleep. I did wake up once with some mild sweats around my head and neck but it passed quickly. Today I felt great. A little stiff but I find I have more energy than prior on the MD and have actually done a lot more physically today than I normally would do and I attribute some of my stiffness to that. All in all most of the transition has been better than expected and the PWDs were bearable and brief. I am glad I went down to 30mg of MD for over a week prior. I am still debating in my own mind whether it is better for me to take the 16mg strips in two 8mg doses twice a day or just take all 16mg once a day in the morn. That may be my addict mind. I agree kind of with the Doc J that maybe once a day is better. So far so good !! Thanks for everyone's help.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Equitalk wrote:
5:00pm and still at work for another hour. Going to take my evening dose in an hour. Still feel 100% better. No more chills no more sweats no more anxiety. Just kinda normal feeling and no cravings.

awesome! keep it up!

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:36 pm 
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If you're not in pain I would go with once a day for sure. My doctor says that if he could get his patients to take their dose at 3am when they are sleeping he would. And of course, that is to decrease the chance for a psychological tie to dosing.

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:00 am 
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An update. Almost 3 weeks now and I feel fantastic. No side effects and I'm not dopey feeling like I was on the methadone. It's so much better. My only complaint is trying to get the costs to work with my insurance company etc. I posted on another thread the copy of the letter I sent to Anthem today. They tried to say the high cost was due to FDA and dea. bullshit. I'm very familiar with the dea and FDA regs. So if you have any advice please read my other post. Beyond that I love this medicine. I feel so much better. No cravings and no more anxiety. Simply a life saver. Thanks everyone for your advice.


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