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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:52 pm 
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Oops, I meant to say I've been on subs almost 2 months, not 3.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if you have anything in your stomach since subs are taken sublingually. I used to always take my Norco on an empty stomach so they would have more effect. I eat a lot more now because I don't try to keep an empty stomach all day. It's nice not staying hungry all day!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:28 pm 
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RedVelvet, I'm glad you stuck it out and made it to your appointment AND I'm super glad that you're feeling better, Woo-Hoo!!

You may experience a few side effects the first few days on Suboxone, it takes some of us a day or two to get used it.

Snuggles, we need an update dudette!! Hope everything is good.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:30 pm 
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Red Velvet,

I understand.. I haven't told my wife.. You may get to the point that you want to tell him but there's no hurry.. Or you might decide not to- that's fine too..Point is, you're in control- that's gotta feel good!!

I never had any side effects with the subs at all.. I was consuming massive quantities for years and was actually on day 4 or 5 of a cold turkey detox before I finally gave in and took subs.. within 15 minutes I was good to go and haven't looked back.. I read about the side effects like dry mouth and constipation and I assume they're coming my way but nothing so far and I'm into my 4th month and actually have begun tapering.. I wish I could offer you more info on the dry mouth thing.. sorry


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:02 pm 
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Thanks Taurus and Romeo! I'm feeling good now, a little tired but good! I still have a hard time believing that Im don't have vics in me and I'm feel good. I was feeling a almost high right after I took it(when it kicked in) but a nice energetic one. My doctor said he decided to be a sub prescribed because he was so amazed at how it can help opiate addicts and he had a family member that struggled for years. He said it was the most amazing drug he saw besides Viagra, lmao!

I do think this mg is good for me. I realized I didn't eat today, so I just had a snack and the lightheadedness is gone! Yay! And after I ate I went right to my pocket for a Vic out if habit! That's usually what I did after I ate. Ofcoarse none was there, it was a good feeling knowing I dont need it. I feel happier then I ever did, I can't believe I can be a normal person again. Now I'm not afraid to get job because iknow I won't have to call out every month because I'm withdrawaling.

Snuggles, hope we here back from you soon! I know by now you pain is gone :)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:42 pm 
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So is 8mg gonna be enough to hold ne for the day? I'm afraid it's gonna wear off and I will be craving? Doc said if I feel I need another I can do it 12hrs later. But I will asleep by then lol. Just a concern


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:58 pm 
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I starting to feel cravings around 6pm. And my back pain came back. Can I take a small amount, I'm not sure


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:23 pm 
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Here I am mid-induction

Finally home, this has got to be the longest day of my life.
I was supposed to see the doctor at 4pm after seeing the therapist, and they let 2 "quick follow-up" appts sneak ahead of me, normally I would be fine, but the 45 extra minutes that took were pure torture. I was under the impression that they gave you the first dose in the office to monitor your response, when they told me I had to go to pharm, I nearly leapt out of my chair and run home to my bottle of Tramadol- don't worry I didn't. After a 30 minute wait at Walgreens, I finally got home and tore open that first strip 20 minutes ago. I kept waiting to feel really bad or really good right away, but it didn't come.

However, as I type this I am starting to feel, well..... normal! I may even feel a slight giddy feeling. As good as I am starting to feel, I just realized why I am suddenly near tears- I am waiting for a high. I am waiting to feel awesome ad energetic and hapy like I just took a pill, and it's not coming. If this is normal, than this is the person who has find the energy to make dinner, do the dishes, clean the house, tuck the kids in and be happy just because.

Wow, I told myself that the Suboxone was just to end my dependance. I guess I have some work to do dont' I. How can I be happy when there is no little "perk" to wait for, no "reward" for working hard. My reward should be the love of my family, and somehow that is not enough? It wasn't enough for me before, or I wouldn't have needed the pill in the first place would I. They were my encouragment and support, they were there for me when my husband couldn't be (he has medical issues), they were the enery that I just didn't have. It was always there for me, but it was all I lie. On Tramadol, I was a worse mom, a worse wife, and got so much less done. It took away my appetite and brought me down to 102 lbs. It took away my freedom my making me obsess about when I would take my next dose and how many would be safe to take. It was all a lie, but now I have to live in the truth, and it scares me.

I guess I feel like I am saying goodbye to an old friend, because I KNOW that this is it this time. And as self-destructive as it was, I will still miss it in some ways.

Now the tears are turning to happy tears as I realize that I have my life back. The obsession and guilt are over, I can focus now on becoming healthy physically and emotionally, wow how freeing. Thank God I found this site, you have all given me the courage to start the Suboxone today, without you all it may have taken me much longer to get this help.

It has now been 40 minutes since I took the strip, and I do feel a little high, relaxed and happy. Thank you for letting me ramble, sorry for being overly honest with my feelings, but it helps to write as it comes, I want to remember how I feel right now.
Love to all,
Jen


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:38 pm 
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RedVelvet- You are going to be fine, don't give in to the cravings, think of how much better you feel than this morning! I know the pain sucks, did you try ibuprofen and moist heat? I know after what we have been on ibuprofen sounds like putting out a fire with a single drop of rain, but it really helps the cause of the pain. Is there an on-call number you can call to ask, it sounds like you must not be on the right dose? When do you go in for a follow-up visit?

If it gets really bad, I would maybe take 1/2 strip tonight, then call your doctor first thing to tell him what happened. I'm sure he would rather you take more Suboxone than more Vicodin and shold be understanding as long as you are upfront and honest with him.

I asked the doctor for only once a day dosing, and he said that most people can't go that long at first, but can drop down to once a day after the first few days/ weeks. It might even be better for 1/2 strip twice a day. I am going to try to do two strips Friday, then 1 and a half strips Sat and Sun, and drop from there.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:17 pm 
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SNUGGLES, you did it too!!!!!! YAY you!!!

I kinda chuckled reading you previous post where they had you wait an extra 45 minutes THEN you had to go to the pharmacy to get your Suboxone.....my first visit was fairly similar. While I didn't have to wait an extra 45 minutes, I unfortunately sat beside this dude who would NOT shut up, he insisted on talking to me and he was driving me up a frickin' wall because I was in heavy wd and I just wanted him to shut up or die. He made my wait seem like an eternity. Then, like you, my doctor had me go to the pharmacy to get my meds. Thank goodness my wife came with me for my appointment and she drove me to the pharmacy. As soon as they handed me those Suboxone pills, I shot one into my mouth and thought "this shit better work or I'm gonna go completely ape shit"......about 25 minutes later, I was just a yappin' my head off to my wife on the ride home. She just had a big ole smile on her face. I was stunned at how good this Suboxone stuff worked.

BTW, I totally admire your honesty. Most everything you brought up has probably went through most of our minds too. I remember my addiction counselor talking to me about "mourning" the loss of our drug and it's so true. Drugs were our world, they were an intimate part of our everyday life, we thought about those little bastards all day long, etc, etc.....it's completely normal to have reservations about not having them anymore.

Give Suboxone a few days to really build up in your system and I think a lot of your worries will go away.

Redvelvet, I know my post is a little bit late, but you can certainly dose twice per day, especially as your building Suboxone up in your system. Once per day dosing is recommended for the long term, though.

Have either of you considered seeing some kind of addiction counselor? In my opinion, Suboxone alone is not enough, it's a massive head start, but we still have a lot of work to do. Addiction is a wickedly cunning and powerful disorder. I saw an addiction counselor for most of the duration of my Suboxone treatment (3 years), he helped me a lot, but being the smart ass, know it all that I can be at times, I also missed a lot of what he tried to teach me. If you see a counselor, don't be a smart ass like I was! :D

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:50 pm 
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Hello to RedVelvet and Snuggles!

I know both of you are having a better day today than yesterday! Snuggles I feel your pain on the long wait at the doctor...I actually didn't have to wait to long but I was really worried going into it that I would have the exact experience you had. Ugggh...I'm sure it was awful! But all worth it now huh! I also just wanted to let you know that you are not the only one here that has had problems with tramadol. My DOC was always hydrocodone or percs...but I had a script of tramadol to get me through the withdrawal when I would run out of my biscuits (that's what we called the hydro's). Anyway, it's funny that you mention how they made you not want to eat and your down to 102 lbs. I had the exact problem! I didn't eat well when I took my biscuits, but only because I knew it worked better on an empty stomach. The tramadols on the other hand made me have no desire to eat at all. I could go two or three days without eating anything! Those things are wicked...and in order to get the high I was used to I was taking 15 - 25 over the course of a day. Well, it came back to bight me in the ass a year ago almost to the day. I had popped about 18 by 3:00 that afternoon. I had a seizure and wound up in the hospital for two days. It was very scary. I had just been driving with my three kids in the car...got out and went in somewhere with my husband and fell out and had the seizure. I always think about what would have happened if the seizure had hit me even ten minutes sooner while I was driving. Scary stuff! I was down to 107 lbs at the end of the summer. To the point where everyone who sees you feels the need to comment on how skinny you are. That seriously bugs the crap out of me! Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that you aren't the only one with that history...Welcome, Welcome! Redvelvet, you are rockin it girl! I'm not sure about the cravings, I am still having them. But I think it is good for us to figure out how to work through this on our own. They are getting better the past few days. I think it gets better as your body adjusts to your meds being in your body.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:39 pm 
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qhorsegal - I just had to comment on what you said about how everyone thinks it's ok to tell you how skinny you are. That is sooooo damn annoying! I have been skinny all my life and I was very self conscious about it growing up. I couldn't help it! I drank weight gainer and tried to eat the most fattening foods just so I would gain weight and people wouldn't take it upon themselves to look at me with disgust and tell me how skinny I was. Sooooooo effin rude!! Can you imagine someone going up to a fat person and telling them how fat they are? It's the same damn thing. My weight finally caught up with me, thank god, but not until my mid twenties.

Oh, and that's so funny that you called your doc buscuits!! LOL!! I called mine eggs when I was ordering them from my supplier. And I know a someone else who called them cupcakes! Too funny!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:07 am 
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Hi everyone! I'm waiting for my dr to call back. I called and told the nurse that the one 8mg was not holding me long enough. I had cravings after 6hrs yesterday and today I took it at 7am and it's not really doing the full trick. I do, however, feel better then I normally would with out the vics. But I think I need a little bit of a higher dose for the start. I will never give in to my cravings, I probably did enough damage to myself with those little demons. The dr was shocked to hear how much acetaminophen I put in my body over the coarse of 3yrs without landing in the hospital, so he is sending me for a liver panel.

Snuggles, I am happy for you! I know how you feel with the waiting. I didn't wait as long as you, but when I walked in there was an old man at the window giving the nurse a hard time, questions, arguing, taking forever! The way I was feeling at that moment, I wanted to grab n throw him lol! It was my turn damnit! Haha. Then I was in with doc for an hour and a half. I then asked if he was going to give me one there and he said no. My heart fell out of my ass. I then had a 30 min drive to target (where they said it would be cheaper the a chain drug store) and waited there for 20 min and had to drive home. Nothing like sitting in a department store withdrawing! Ugh! Sounds like your wait was worse, but it's over now right?
I to know I was a worse mom and girlfriend. Didn't see it til now, but looking back. All the times I had to keep my kids home from school cuz mommy was withdrawing, I missed thanksgiving dinner, July 4th fireworks, lots of things. I am so happy we were given the chance to get our lives back and be the wonderful moms we know we are and the children deserve.

Counseling sounds like a good idea, I need to learn to live without feeling "beautiful" is what I called it, or following my habits paths and most likely a new daily routine meaning I will now have the energy to do the wash BEFORE someone runs out of clothes lol. My habits paths I subconsciously almost did twice today. First when I got up the morning the first thing I did was go into the bathroom with my purse and quickly pop a Vic, while I was peeing. Today, I did the same thing, but when I opened the pocket and saw nothing I was like "oh yea!" Second, after I get dressed to take my son to school I went to the closet and put four pills in my pocket for the first part of the day. I went there today and as I reached my arm out I busted out laughing! Wow! No, there is no more pills anywhere. But I actually thought it was funny how those things had my brain programed like a robot! Man

Well, I know we are gonna do great! I just need a little more of a higher dose, but I won't give in to these cravings! I will be fine. Call back already doctor, jeez.

Thank you everyone. Like Snuggles said too, thank god for this forum, you guys helped give me the strength and courage to do this! Reading how great you felt after the being on either the same or similar drug made me think, I wanna feel like they do :)

P.S anyone else get the hiccups after taking the Suboxone? Lol


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:27 am 
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Cool, the dr called back and told me to take the 8mg strip in the morning when I wake up, a half a strip in the early afternoon and half in the evening/bedtime if I feel that I need it. That sounds good for starters for me. I have a very fast metabolism that sucks things up quickly lol


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:10 pm 
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OMGosh you crack me up RedVelvet. When you said you thought you're heart was gonna fall out of your ass I laughed OUT LOUD. I've never seen anyone's heart fall out of their ass before, don't think I want to either!

I ended up on 16mg of Suboxone, took that amount for most all of my treatment. I'd say 16mg is about an average dose. After you've been on it a while, you could try lowering your dose, but for right now you should get to a dose that eliminates all your cravings.

As far as your mind and body going through some of those old behaviors, I did that too. I used to keep my meds on our kitchen island and after I quit, I would wander by the kitchen island, stand there for a second and wonder WTH I was doing. I would do that 4 or 5 times per day. Actually, I still do it every great once in a while.

I'm glad you're considering counselling. I hope you get in with a great counselor.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:09 pm 
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RedVelvet- I wanted to check in to see how things are going for you this weekend?

Everyone else- you are all amazing for caring enough to respond and encourage us "newcomers" on- Thanks!

Me- I am a mess. My brain is a jumbled mess. I am having a hard time organizing my thoughts, so sorry if this all comes out confusing.

Thursday after my first dose I got a euphoric high from the med. Talk about being crushed, the drug that was supposed to protect me gives me a high!?! How can I look at the Suboxone as safe after that? I am now just really afraid of it. I let my doctor know, that maybe I had too high of a dose (8mg strips twice daily), and they just said to keep it up for a week until my follow up.

So Friday, I took a strip in the morning, this time I was lightheaded with a terrible headache, migraine-like, and I had to send my kids to my parents house. I had to lay in a dark, quiet room for the next 4 hours, but not too much of a "high" feeling, so I thought all is well. Friday night after my dose, again I was very lightheaded and nauseous, and just didn't feel right. I started vomiting at midnight and didn't get to sleep until 3am.
To make matters worse, the Suboxone does not treat the Serotonin withdrawal that you also get with Tramadol (much like anti-depressant WD), so I have been having the lovely brain zaps and confusion with that as well.

Today I slept in until noon, but felt OK. Decided to just take a half a strip at 2pm, I took it differently, so I don't know if it absorbed well (I put the strip between my cheek and gums instead of under the tongue- I hate the taste). At 4pm, I started having a craving for Tramadol, so I took the other half of a strip, this time under the tongue. I think it did help.

Now it is about 10pm, I just have an over all feeling of something "not being right". I have nausea/ stomach cramps, headache, more brain zaps (but better than yesterday), and a bit of anxiety. I think I should be able to sleep, so I am going to skip the second strip tonight.

I am just so confused as to what dose to take. At this point I am thinking of using Suboxone as something to treat my withdrawal symptoms and/ or cravings as they come, but nothing more than that. Basically IF I feel WD coming on, take 1/2 of a strip, but if I feel fine, I don't want to take it. I want to use it like an "as needed" medication, not a routine, maintenance medication, does that make sense?

My family is urging me to do what the doctor says, but I feel it is over-kill and that he is just a "Suboxone- Salesperson". I am not going to turn back to tramadol, if I feel the urge to use it, I will just reach for Suboxone instead. I am terrified of becoming addicted or dependant on Suboxone. And, I still feel like I am "on something". Last month I was only taking 2 Tramadol/ day and I felt so FREE, I felt like my own feelings were returning and that I was really "Me" again and I could focus on my life. Now that I am off the Tramadol, I was expecting to feel close to the same. Instead I still feel a little numbed and weighed down by the Suboxone, and now I find myself just obsessing about the Suboxone instead. I am not being my own self because I am still getting synthetic endorphins from Suboxone. When I was nearly off the Tramadol, my brain was "waking up" again making it's own endorphins, I long for that feeling again. <Sigh> I just don't know what to do :(

I hope I made some sense, because I just feel really confused right now.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:36 pm 
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Hey snuggles,

As I was reading your last post I found myself wondering if you are just on too high of a dose? Not to undermine your addiction at all because I have taken tramadol as well and know how you could get addicted to it pretty easily. I just think a tramadol habit is not going to need as much suboxone as a full agonist opiat habit would. Like you said, part of the Trams that is so hard to quit is the SSRI effects of it. Are you taking another form of anti depressant medication to kind of fill in for what you are missing from tramadol?

I know it is hard not to listen to what your doctor is telling you. But, if you are determined not to take it as he prescribed itl Maybe you can take a much lower dose just once per day. Say, starting off with 6mgs in the moring and raising it if yo feel neccessary


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:13 am 
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Snuggles, you are not the only one to feel this way. I feel the I have every side effect in the book and I really don't want to take the sub anymore. I was fine on thursday, Friday woke up with a headache the I called the dr and told him that I had cravings 5hrs after taking it the day before. They put up my dose to 8mg in the am, 4mg in afternoon and 4mg in the evening. I was feeling high off it and bad things were happening. I had bad nausea, and I was nodding off with my eyes fluttering everytime I sat down and if I closed my eyes I hallucinated or it was like having a dream without being asleep.

Saturday got worse and I even lowered my dose, still took the 8mg in the am, but I took 2mg in the afternoon and in the evening. Last night I thought I was gonna die, my head has never hurt this bad! Even hurts on the front of my face, in the sinus area. I couldn't see! My vision was blurred, eyes fluttering, nodding off, nausea, legs were wobbly. Still felt like that this morning. My vision cleared up a little. Headache is still bad. I only took 2mg today cuz I am scared of this, I want off. I do not like how it makes me feel. I keep thinking to myself "I never felt bad like this on Vicodin, I was happy n energetic" I just wanna tell my doc to take me off, I can't keep affording this anyway.

Now the 2mg probably wasn't enough cuz I feel cravings...ugh! I don't know what to do, my head feels like it's gonna split in two, I see weird pictures when I close my eyes, sometimes voices. Did I mention dizzy. My eyes are getting blurry again. Sorry my mind is all over the place that I'm talking in circles.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:24 am 
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Forgot to mention leg twitches and shaky breathing :(


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:42 pm 
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Hey RedVelvet and Snuggles, I'm sorry you two are having such a rough go with your induction. A lot of people take their first dose of Suboxone and hit the ground running, I was one of them. Then, some people get on Suboxone and have a much rougher time stabilizing, but most eventually do.

Snuggles, I don't have much experience with Tramadol and its wd, but i know it's its own kind of monster. I'm hoping that things level out for you soon.

RedVelvet, your case is a bit more puzzling. You may be on too high a dose of Suboxone or you may be having a reaction to Buprenorphine (the active ingredient in Suboxone) or you may be having a reaction to the Naloxone in Suboxone. It's so hard to tell from the other end of an internet forum. I think you should contact your doctor and let him know what's going on.

I'm really sorry that Suboxone isn't working for you guys like it has many of us, it seems so unfair.

I hope you guys get things figured out soon.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:37 pm 
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Thanks Romeo. Thanks to this forum I already knew about spitting out the naloxone, I did that and still got headaches. I tried to call my docs cell and got no reply. So much for giving it to me for weekend emergencies huh? Today I took only 2mg at 7:30am and again at 1 when I was having cravings. What really scared me last night besides my head splitting in two was the fact I could see the tv or my itouch without it being blurry or my eyes fluttering (I was trying to post on here and could even see) also my legs were twitching and my speech was slurred.

Now with what I took, all that is not present, but cravings don't feel totally gone or my back pain. Wish my doc would call :(
I almost want to stop this all together and go back to my other, no I really don't want to and I don't want the high feeling, I want my back pain to go away.
I will hang in there til I hear from the dr, even if it's tomorrow, but I feel like I'm breathing heavy so I hope I'm not gonna withdrawal with the small amount I took. So confusing and I had so much to do today too. But thank you for your caring response and I will ask him if it's am allergic reaction, if it is does that mean I can't take it? Oh my


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