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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:53 pm 
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I've got an appointment to start suboxone on Friday morning. They told me not to take anything after Thursday morning because they want me in mild/moderate withdraws. They are also going to give me a drug screen. I'm sure those of you on suboxone where told pretty much the same thing. I haven't taken anything since Sunday. I took a suboxone that a friend gave me. Before that I had a little Methadone benge. To be honest over the past few months i haven't been using as much because quite frankly i haven been able to afford it. I would say I've been taking 30-60 of hydrocodone on a every other day basis as well as the occasional methadone or two. However, it has been on my mind almost constantly when i don't have anything. Before this two month period i was taking a lot of hydrocodone between 100-150 mg a day along with whatever else i could get my hands on. I guess my question is what is my doctor going to think if my withdraw systems aren't that bad? I could possibly pass a drug screen since i haven't used since Sunday. Is it possible that despite what i may tell him he could turn me away? I am giving this guy $950 up front if y'all think that could come into play.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:48 pm 
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Welcome to the forum! It’s great to hear that you are on the road to getting some help.

While many of us here have an addiction to opiates, none of us are mind readers - and unfortunately that's just about what it's going to take to try to figure out what your doctor is going to think, say or do. The best advice that I can give you is to just be 100% honest with him or her. Tell your doctor exactly what you just told us. Tell him/her when you last used. How much you use. How long it's been going on, etc. Most doctors are simply looking for your story to add up and make sense. I highly doubt they are going to refuse you treatment if you don't FAIL a drug test. "Sorry, go score some Vicodin and come back when you have it in your system." I mean that just makes no sense. Drug tests are just a part of being a good doctor. To some degree they are also there to protect the physician but for the most part they are just another diagnostic tool. The reason they want you to be in withdrawals is so you don't end up getting really sick from having the Suboxone block out the other opiates in your system. It is called precipitated withdrawals. If you have not used since Sunday, that is not going to happen. The reason you are not in greater withdrawals is because you took the Suboxone. You likely already know that. If your doctor asks, just come clean and tell him.

No matter what anyone tries to tell you, they cannot read your doctors mind - and neither can you. All you can do is go in and be extremely honest with your doctor and be ready to partner with him in getting you better. The great majority of doctors really do want to do the right thing. Some are better at it than others. Rarely are they out to rip you off or simply take your money. That just is not the norm. It sounds like your doctor is following very standard and accepted protocols and will have you on the road to recovery here shortly. Please just help him to help you by telling him the truth about anything he asks you about. Do that, and you really should not have anything to worry about.

Please stop back and let us all know how your appointment goes.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:19 am 
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Thanks donh for the quick response. It didn't make sense to me that i should have to test positive for every opiate on the planet and be nearing death when i arrive for my appointment. Ive been trying as hard as i can just to wait till Friday and not get anything else off the street. However, it did cross my mind that maybe i should get something just so i don't look like a poser...lol. Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:45 am 
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Most of the Dr.s around here ( northwest IN ) charge $100.00 for the 1st week and then its $40.00 per week for a script for sub, they make you pee in a cup on the 1st visit. A script for a month is $160.00 They also make you pay up front, $950.00 sounds like a lot of money for this kind of service, be carefull !!!!! I already dislike this situation , SORRY


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 Post subject: Hmm.. Lots of $$
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:46 am 
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WOW! First Welcome to the forum.

I agree with both donh and sullimi. First, all doctors are different as you will find out if you stay with the forum long. Most do the right thing.

I found a 'family practice' that charged $100 per visit, and it was a pattern of 1 a week for 2 weeks, then 2 a month, then 1 a month and a monthly script.

Is there any chance you mis-typed $950 - or somehow included a months worth of suboxone in that price or something? Maybe it's inpatient?

Anyway - I wish you well, and just recently someone else did the same thing as you - not actively using - and despeate (like me) - and the doctor did the right thing. No guarantees.

Boy, if I was going to lay out $950 - I personally would do some looking around for other places. Many family practices are now trained in suboxone and some charge substantially less - just for a suggestion. Regardless - good luck and keep us posted!


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 Post subject: $$$ Dr. $$$
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:52 am 
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Hi WhoDatNOLA,
First off Congrats to you for Starting on the road to Recovery. You will find all kinds of advice / stories on this forum. I for one find it very helpfull and use it as part of my recovery...
As far as your current situation is concerned I have never experienced the upfront $$$ for a Dr.??? I am covered thru my personal Healt Ins. Policy not sure if that makes a difference or not but, $ 950. up front seams like a lot to me..
As far as the procedure goes that sounds about the same as my experience. I was on 300+ mgs. of Oxycodone a day when I got clean. I had to be OFF my pills for 24 - 36 hrs. before my Suboxone treatment could start. I did as I was told and I believe it saved my life.... I have been on 16 mgs. of Suboxone for a year now with No problem's to report.. :) !!
I also go to counseling 2 times a month and life is good for me!! I hope this helps you and I wish you the best of luck in your recovery....

God Bless
TW


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:10 pm 
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Thanks y'all. I don't have health insurance that has a lot to do with up front costs i believe. Also, this guy is one of the only docs who is taking patients right now. He is highly recommended by his peers and is actually like the head of the state board for addiction treatment or something like that, and he trains other docs in Suboxone treatment. He is also board certified to do counseling. So, I don't question weather he is legit. I know he is high in comparison to some other as far as what it costs to get started. He wants to see me a bunch over the first two weeks to make sure we get the dosage right, but having taken this stuff on a few occasions I feel like i could set my dosage myself. In my experience 4mg a day keeps me feeling "normal" and controls my cravings. Anyway, the $950 gets me through though first couple of weeks. After we get through the the first couple of weeks i will meet with him once a month and those visits will cost $150 a pop. I guess the reason i even mentioned the up front cost was i was wondering if it was even possible this guy could turn me down if i tell i have a problem and that i want treatment and on top of that I'm giving him $950. I'm sure if he did i would get a large portion of that money back. Definitely going to clear that up with them before i give them the next $650 tomorrow morning. I had to give them a $300 deposit just to make an appointment. I think because this guy is "so good" he is kind of controlling his clientele with his upfront cost. Seems like he is weeding out any potential drug seekers and those of us who aren't that sure if this is really what we want to do.

Lastly, have any of you heard of or had any experience with doctors minimizing a patients addiction. I have a friend who has been in my ear all week not to do this. She is on suboxone "illegally" trying to quit a methadone addiction and she swears that i don't wan to do this. She wants me to quit cold turkey. I have had no success with quitting up until know and i really need to work on other areas of my life. I'm 25 and I'm still in college. I need to finish. This addiction has greatly hindered my progress in school the past 2 years. I ruined a relationship i was in with a girl i really cared about because of lies about quitting on multiple occasions. I really feel like this is my best option at this point. Thoughts? Thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:07 pm 
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"She is on suboxone "illegally" trying to quit a methadone addiction and she swears that i don't wan to do this. She wants me to quit cold turkey. I have had no success with quitting up until know [now]"

I think you have pretty much answered your own question. Do you really want to be listening to a currently using drug addict that is breaking the law to get Suboxone? And even if the "advice" wasn't coming from such a poor source, you answer your own question when you admit that you have not had success with quitting on your own in the past. It sounds pretty obvious that this is not at all someone to listen to. Continue on the path you are on. You most certainly do need professional help.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:32 pm 
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Thanks donh. It really helps to have people reassuring me that I'm doing the right thing. This girl is a very close friend of mine. She really feels like because I'm not completely dope sick that i need to just man up, quit, and move on with my life. Just can't do it. The only reason i haven't been loaded all this week is because i cant find ANYTHING!!! My finances are finally starting on an upturn. Perfect time to get help and not mess them up again. Family is helping with the cost of the doc so this will end up costing far less and give me stability. I really think my friend has an ideal that she would like to be able to achieve, but she is not being realistic. I would love to see her get help as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:47 pm 
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Your friend is very likely blinded by the same thing that most of us here were blinded by at one time or another. The average person, along with many addicts, thinks that if you can simply get passed the withdrawals and get your body feeling "normal" again, that you have kicked your drug habit. Nothing can be further from the truth. What she does not realize or understand, is that many people have been and are able to stop taking drugs. What they cannot seem to do is keep from starting up again. That is where the real challenge comes in. She may be correct in that you MAY be able to quit on your own and get yourself "clean" without Suboxone. What she doesn't understand is that the odds are huge that you'll be back and using again within months if not weeks - or days! You may actually want to educate her about this fact. In all honesty, if she is ever going to address her problem, she too is going to need to look way past the initial stopping of taking drugs. The real challenge with most of us is not stopping - it's staying stopped.

True, Suboxone will help you to stop taking your drug of choice (DOC). Much more, however, it will help you to not go back to using again. That is really what starting Suboxone is all about. It's much more than the initial detox. And you can tell you friend that I said so. LOL :)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:09 pm 
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Yeah, I would say she is not a big believer in the disease concept. When i say that i mean she is ignorant! LOL! Thanks a bunch. I'll tell her to watch some of SubDocs videos on YouTube or something.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:58 am 
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Whodat?

Had to get that out of the way.

hey, whodat. You are in a place I envy, apparently not physically or barely addicted. But everyone is different. I understand your motivation. I think your logic is sound, I'm thinking your doctor would be completely in agreement with your decision here. Yes, he will know you are not in withdrawals. There is a checksheet they use in observation and it is pretty, thorough. You are not going to be able to fake pupil dilation or high blood pressure. Or maybe you are one of those Tibeten monks who can, I don't know, lol. Personally, I'd just tell him the same story you are telling us, and I don't think you will have a problem.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:48 pm 
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Hey, just wanted to let y'all know that the appointment went real well this morning. Thanks so much for the support. I can already see how valueable this site is going to be.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:47 pm 
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My concern that my doctor might not take my addiction seriously because of the minimal withdrawal symptoms and the fact i hadn't used anything in nearly five days were unwarranted like you all had eluded to. I told him my history, the reason i was now deciding i wanted to stop using, and how this addiction had been tearing my life up. He didn't question that i had a problem for one second. He thoroughly explained the science behind how opiate addition works in the brain and how suboxone is use to treat it. Then i took a drug test. I past it! LOL! That's is just really funny to me for some reason. The last thing i would have ever thought is that when someone is so desperate to get help they would be able to pass a drug test and be in very mild physical withdrawals. Somehow that's how it worked out for me. Go figure. Anyways, he had me take 2mg to start and after that i felt fine. No craving and the depression as well as my minimal withdrawal symptoms were gone. He gave instructions to take an additional 2mg as needed through out the rest of the day if symptoms or cravings resurface at some point. He told me not to take anymore than another 8mg on top of the initial 2 i took in his office. I took another 2mg an hour ago and i will be fine for today. No cravings! He also said that he wanted me to take the sum of whatever i take today as my dose for tomorrow. So, basically ill take 4mg in the morning tomorrow. Today was a good day! I'm very excited! I feel like i have been given a new lease on life. :D


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:29 am 
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first off welcome to this great place. it has helped me so much through the first few days of taking subs and while i rarely post anymore, i read on a daily basis.

i dont really have much to contribute other than i wish you the best of luck my friend. i really am shocked at the figures being tossed around here though. while i am covered 100% by my insurance and therefore the apt's and subs cost me nothing, i know people who are not covered who attend the same clinic who pay nothing for apt's and roughly $1.75 per mg. maybe this is just a canadian thing or even a provincial thing, but regardless i just cant believe how much it costs some people to get the help they need and deserve at such a high cost. it just ....doesnt feel right you know?

anyways, im rambling now. keep us updated on your progress!

k


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:30 pm 
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Hey WhoDat

Glad you came along and decided to post on this forum. It's a great place to ask questions and give your feelings about things.

Quitting opiates is a tough road regardless if you have minimal addiction or a full blow doing 150mg of oxy each day or doing tar. It's all hard and a very very tough on the mind and body... and some are harder then others, but all have a firm grip on our reality.

Be honest with your doc about your abuse in the past and so forth and let him know that your plans for going on sub is to get yourself out of the habit of going out and looking for something to do... That's the great thing about subs. As the Doc here will say, take it once a day and then learn to forget about it... Opiate abusers like us all like to search out the drug, prepare it, and wait for it to take its root in us .. and we have to learn that we don't have to do that day to day.

I'd suggest spend a lot of time talking about your addiction and why you wanna be clean. Accept that you are addicted and that you want to improve your life. Talk it out and the more you do it the easier it will be to get past it.

Though if I'm not wrong, it sounds like you've been off opiates for 5+ days and if that's the case then you should just continue not using it and maybe think about not going on subs.. and maybe doing some out patient consoling or some NA... because it sounds like you just need to adjust your life of not wanting to dabble in it.. but we are all different, so I don't have a right answer for everyone or even myself some time.

Feel free to always post as candid as possibly on here and you can always PM me, I'm on here daily.

There are some good posts on the Quitting Suboxane forum as well.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:17 am 
Hey man, you don't have to be in withdrawals to go on Suboxone. Some people don't even use opioids every day during their addiction, rather they are "binge" users who use massive quantities of drugs in a short period while maintaining a fragile abstinence for several weeks in between. Such people are still addicts. Then, of course, there are those who use opioids every day, or every day that they can get ahold of the drugs, like I did. And many people are in between. It's obvious, as you have said, that your addiction has cost you quality relationships and other negative consequences. The disease of opioid addiction is just as "real" and "in" your brain and body as when you have ingested many milligrams of painkillers. Suboxone effectively treats the craving and obsession of the mind on opioids, freeing the addict to live a normal life. And Suboxone doesn't make you feel "high", in fact, after the first few days most people feel either nothing or "normal."
When I went to my Suboxone induction appointment, I hadn't used an opioid in quite a while. But the doctor knew, as I did, that it was only a matter of time until I would relapse again, starting the self-destructive cycle of addiction all over again. Hopefully your doctor will be enlightened enough to realize that you've suffered untreated in your addiction enough! You deserve a treatment that works. Plus, you've already taken Suboxone and know it works, which might be a helpful fact to mention to your doctor. I hope you're successful in getting a legal prescription for yourself and a way to pay for it. Often times, state Medicaid programs pay for Suboxone. If you think you may qualify (low income), go into/call your local Social Services office to apply. Suboxone has changed my life, and I think it can change yours. Good luck!
james


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