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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:53 am 
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I brought my son to a sub Dr yesterday. The Dr said he needed to be on methadone for 10 days first.All the years of battleing with my son to get pills away from him( to give him pills felt horrible). Anyway he took his first dose and he literally looks higher then i have EVER seen him(and i have seen alot) He was also in jail for a year .He came out and used asap. He has been taking roxies for years . He has been clean many times but the moment he is back in his element he uses again . I am sure it is more of a mental condition than a physical one . If a person can stay clean for months and then just decides to use do you feel that they are a good canidate for suboxone. I always thought subs were for those who could not get clean /withdrwrals on thier own. Any info thanks so much


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:09 pm 
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Hi and welcome Dmac,

I'm sorry to hear what you're going through, I know it must be tough. Your son is lucky to have someone in his corner. I'm curious why the doc put him on methadone first? Was he on methadone already? Going from methadone to suboxone is pretty hard, because methadone has a very long half life and can cause precipitated withdrawal if you don't wait a long time in between. I'm not sure about after only 10 days, maybe someone else knows but that my first question.

To answer your question about suboxone, no its not just for avoiding withdrawals. It helps us get far away from our lives of drug searching while feeling "normal" pretty much right away. We have a chance to learn to deal with our addictive behaviours ideally with some kind of recovery plan like therapy, counseling or meetings like AA and NA. It also prevents us from using because it basically makes opiates not work if we take them. That can be dangerous though because if we were to try and get high we would need a TON of pills. This brings me to my next point and it may be hard to hear. We need to be ready for this. It's amazing that you are avdocating for your son but it is he who needs to want to be clean. If he is not ready, he could end up in a bad place.

This is only my opinion and I hope others chime in for you, I'm sure they will soon. I'm very curious about the methadone from the doctor please let us know if you know why he said he made that mandatory.

Thanks and good luck btw,

Glen B


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:18 am 
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dmac wrote:
If a person can stay clean for months and then just decides to use do you feel that they are a good canidate for suboxone. I always thought subs were for those who could not get clean /withdrwrals on thier own. Any info thanks so much


Short answer, no.

Getting clean is a lot easier than staying clean. Despite the horror stories, acute withdrawal is only the first hurdle in what is the marathon of recovery. Recovery is a life long process.

In my eyes, Suboxone is just as suitable for, if not MORE suitable for people who can't STAY clean on their own. There are many people who keep using out of fear of avoiding withdrawal. Some may not even be addicted! Some may be people who take their pain medication religiously as prescribed, but find the symptoms once they stop and the heightened sense of pain too much to bear. However if they managed to get over the initial hump of acute withdrawal they would likely find it easier to remain clean than those who are genuinely addicted to opioids.

It sounds like your son is in the "addicted" category. It's a lot harder for us types because we've become conditioned to view drugs as the answer to all our problems, even after the mountain of evidence piles up showing otherwise. The fact that your son has spent a year in jail is pretty much sign enough that his active addiction was severe enough to erode his morals. This is a pretty common symptom of being an addict.

I've managed to have fair whacks of clean time off all opioids. 13 months, 7 months, a couple of 3 month clean streaks. I would have kicked heroin at least 50 times only to relapse in the days or weeks after detox. I chose Suboxone this last time because I realised that I couldn't waste any more years building up clean time only to take a wrecking ball to my life again. Sub has allowed me to finally build up my life with the security that it's not inevitable I will destroy it all again. It's a good feeling!

I find it interesting that your doctor has put your son on methadone for 10 days. I haven't heard of any doctors doing this. In many ways it's easier to make a transition straight from Roxy. But he may want to ensure your son has some days of stability before switching as well. But I will say that methadone is significantly more intoxicating than Suboxone. Compared to methadone, being on Suboxone is close to being clean. Come the time your son will be switched, try and be supportive as you will find that after he moves to Sub the clean son you know and remember will largely return.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:37 am 
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I also do not understand why a doctor would put someone on methadone before going on suboxone, for all the reasons glen bee stated above. I, too, have never heard of it being done; not in the nearly 3 1/2 years I've been moderating this forum.

But to answer your question, suboxone is used by people who are chronic relapsers, also. If a person tries and tries and just can't seem to stay "clean", they could be a good candidate for suboxone.

Supporting your son in suboxone treatment is supporting his overall health and well-being, as far as I'm concerned. You have no reason to feel guilty and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Please stick around here and learn about how suboxone works and how it's used and then you'll understand more about it. But giving him this opportunity could be exactly what he needs.

The nature of suboxone is such that it basically puts us into near immediate remission upon induction. With suboxone in our system, the withdrawals go away and the cravings disappear. That alone does wonders by showing the addict that they can indeed live without the drugs. It's an amazing feeling to go from not being able to control constant thoughts of using to now having up to zero thoughts. Of course being on suboxone is the time to go to counseling, meetings, groups, or whatever other recovery methods he'll need to also assist in changing his bad habits and old behaviors. As addicts, we have tremendously bad coping skills alone and will need help in re-learning new, healthy ones.

He's lucky to have your support. I wish you as well as he and the rest of your family well.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:25 am 
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Thank you fpr the responses. The best i can gather regarding the methadone is he went to the office clean. The Dr. stated if he was to be put on the subs he would go into withdrawrals . She put him on 10 methadone 3 times a day. He seems in worse shape then when he was doing roxies ?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:12 pm 
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Welcome to the forum dmac!

That doesn't make sense...if he went into the Dr.'s office clean and he took sub, what would he be having withdrawals from? Nothing. Unless he really wasn't clean? And even if he wasn't, the doctor could have given him the option to wait until he was in withdrawal to try sub first instead of methadone...but it's too late for that now.

I hope you can find the best treatment for your son. Feel free to ask any other questions that you may have.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:59 pm 
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No he did not get a sub first. He went for subs and the Dr gave him 10 days of methadone instead. Maybe you need to be withdrawring from something before they put you on subs ? i am not sure. Waiting on the Dr to call me back.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:19 pm 
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Hummm this is the way they explained it to me. He did not have enough drugs in his system to legally give him suboxone....So they basically gave him an addiction.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:06 am 
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A person does NOT need to be in withdrawals to start suboxone. There are times when a person has been clean but has been struggling with severe cravings and feels they are on the edge of a relapse when they see a sub doctor. They CAN put them on suboxone at that time without "giving them an addiction". It's done fairly frequently, as far as I know. I still don't understand why this doctor is doing it this way, but hey, you have zero control over what they do.

Like I said, read around this forum and learn about how suboxone works. Knowledge is power. Good luck.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:58 am 
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His doctor sounds like a dick.

The only way it could possibly make sense is if your doctor thinks your son is better suited to methadone, and wants to induce him on it with intent to keep him on it long term.

It's a lot harder to switch from methadone to Sub than to just go on Sub. It's a long acting opioid. Precipitated withdrawal becomes almost inevitable when you switch. It's about minimising it. So unless his doctor is really stupid, I question whether this is his real intention.

Methadone is quite a potent agonist. Moreso than sub. And the longer he stays on a high-ish dose of methadone that's making him feel and look stoned, the higher it will push his tolerance, the higher his dependence will climb, and the harder it will become to eventually get off opioids completely, if that's his goal.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:59 am 
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I have to agree with TJ. I have no clue what his doctor is doing. There is absolutely ZERO reason or need to put someone on methadone before inducing them onto suboxone. NO REASON AT ALL. It's downright weird; or like TJ said, unless he has another plan or agenda, like keeping him on methadone.

Let us know what's up.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:11 am 
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I am so angry .After all this time my son finally come to me wanting treatment and I think i chose a nut job for a DR, I asked him why he put my son on methadone as again he stated he needed to be in some kind of withdrawrals. He had the nerve to tell me while we were sitting there that the methadone does not get him high. I almost had to laugh as my kid is sitting there smiling STONED. I wish i had found this forum and asked questions before going to the Dr. They only gave him 10 days worth and we have an appointment tomorrow .I am struggling deep with the fact that i know he is high ,over talking ,over doing ect . I feel like slapping him in the head . But instead i gave him a hug. This forum rocks ...I wish all of you the best and i will come here first from this point on.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:47 am 
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Is it possible for you to switch doctors? There's one doctor locator at the top of every page of this forum. (Plus there are more online that we can give you as well.) It might be worth it to check into it. The first doctor you speak to who hears this guy put him on methadone first will probably take pity on you!

Good luck and I'm sorry this is going this way for you. It's definitely a roundabout way to get to suboxone, but let's just hope it still gets him there, no matter what.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:39 pm 
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Gotta agree with Hatmaker, another doctor who is experienced with suboxone treatment will likely help you when you explain what the other doctor did. If I understand correctly from your previous posts he is on 10mg methadone 3 times per day? I'm no methadone expert but that sounds like a lot if your son was not on anything... Anyway, Dmac this is bad luck, not your fault- you sound like an awesome parent.

Suboxone.com has a doctor locator where you just type in your zip code. Naabt.org has one where you create a profile and the doctor contacts you. There is at least one more...

Good luck,

Gb


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:26 pm 
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Thank you for the reponses .i brought him back to the Dr and they put him on subs film. He had no issue with going from methadone to subs. However he is sleeping a lot ? Of course they drug tested him as well as his PO testing. The only only thing that came up was the methadone. i am confused because i thought the suboxone made one a bit hyper. Oh they also gave him anxiety meds .


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:05 pm 
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Hey dmac that's great, I hope it continues to go well. Sub can make you tired while you adjust to it. I takes a while to stabilize on suboxone, like a week or two. I'm curious what kind of anxiety meds and for how long?

:)
Gb


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:08 am 
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Glad to hear the transition went smoothly. Perhaps your son wasn't on methadone long enough for the stacking effect to kick in, so it wasn't as bad as someone switching from long term.

Perhaps your doctor wanted more control over what he was on before transition, to know that he wasn't going to use Vics prior to being put on Sub? Anyway, it's an interesting maneuver, and I haven't heard of it before. And I'm still of the opinion it's risky and largely unnecessary.

Give your son some time to adjust to the Suboxone. Switching from methadone to Sub can be rocky and he may be needing some R&R.


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