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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:54 pm 
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Hi Hatmaker,

Sorry I did not respond to your thread sooner, did not see it until now.

First of all I am sorry that "J" put you in that position. I know exactly how you feel, having a friend that changes from wanting help and calling me saying she will do anything to then not being able to handle being sober and relapsing. This has happened more time that I can count, and she is now facing losing her job as a nurse and possibly jail time. So, I do understand wanting to help someone. Unfortunately for her, we cannot find her a doc that will prescribe her Sub, which I know would really help her.

As far as "J", I think you made the right decision and I really hope that he has 'heard' you this time and will follow your rules per se. He knew going in to this what he had at stake by not going to your meetings and Ithink it was more than nice of you to give him a second chance. I just really hope that he follows through this time, after you sticking your neck out for him.

I think it is really awesome that you care enough about his recovery, possibly more than him at this point. I do think you are right though, that if he did stop going to any meetings, he would not get any help and probably end up in jail. I think if you are okay with your decision, that is what is important.

I also think that getting that workbooks that you did, will help you keep these meetings on track and even if "J" is the only one that shows up, you have guidelines to follow now and a topic to cover.

I hope all goes well with your in home meetings. I think it is awesome that you started these and shows how committed you are to your own recovery as well as paying it forward and wanting to help others.

I hope that you get some more responses here, I know this must have been a difficult decision for you.

Ginger


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:53 pm 
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HM, you did what you felt was the right thing at the time. you can't ask anymore of yourself than that. There is no way to know for sure if it was the right thing for J or even for you, but when a problem arises and you do what you feel to be the right thing, you must accept your own judgment and whatever consequences arise, if any. Personally it shows you to be a very caring person and one who is going above and beyond the call of duty even when there is no real duty involved.

What you're doing is great. I wish I was somewhere close enough to come.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:37 am 
Hey Hatmaker....I don't think you made a big mistake. I think you did what you felt was right at the time. I think that I would probably have done the exact same thing.
As long as he understands that was the first, last, and only time you will cover for him, I think it's fine. Hopefully, because you have shown him this grace, he will become more trusting of you and start really working on his recovery. I know that's your hope too!
Let us know how he does. And how the workbook works out too.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:14 am 
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Ginger, new_sub, and SMF -

I cannot thank you enough for your input and support. Although I felt pretty comfortable with my decision, for some reason I guess I was looking for some kind of external validation that I did the right thing - or at least that I didn't screw up. It's funny, because that's not usually like me. I think because I've never been in this position before I wasn't very confident in my own decision.

Other than the two people in my group, since I've been on suboxone, all of you were really the only other addicts I had contact with. So dealing with an addict who's having trouble stabilizing into a healthy recovering lifestyle is new to me. I think my main concern was enabling.

So again, thanks so much for being my sounding board and for allowing me to talk about this and get some feedback. You guys are great - I knew I was hanging around here for a reason. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:32 pm 
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Well, after going out on a limb to help "J", he's still screwing with me. He failed to come last week and who knows about this week. So I spent a lot of time in the last week thinking about it and considering my options. "Fuck it", I decided. So I emailed/texted him tonight, telling him not to bother coming now or to any other meeting; that it was obvious he's using again and didn't want to be here; that I wasn't going to waste any more of my time; and I would be removing him from my group.

I didn't want to have to do it, but honestly, it's been upsetting me. And as some of you may know, stress like that simply worsens my chronic pain. So I had to consider myself.

That leaves me with one member, someone I like a lot, but I'm left thinking about throwing the towel in. My husband and I are in a real financial bind right now (who isn't?) and it costs me to be a part of the meetup.com website, plus all the small costs associated with recruiting members (mailings, etc). Or maybe I've just grown weary. Either way, I've got another month or so to decide. (My own self-imposed deadline.)

Oh, the workbooks are good, but I'm having trouble finding what I'm looking for. I've got a lot to think about.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:59 am 
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Follow-up to my last post...

"J" ignored my message to him and came to my house (late) anyway. Being that I knew he would be pissed I did not let him in, just opened the door to tell him I was done. Well, he DID get angry and kept lying about his using. It wasn't pretty. Eventually I had to close the door on him (and lock it). I wasn't about to let an angry guy in active addiction into my house!
He ended up sending multiple texts to my other member, insulting the both of us. All that accomplished was to confirm to myself that I did the right thing. Whew...I'm so glad it's finally over.

I'm pretty comfortable with my decision and how I handled the situation. Part of me feels a little bad that I didn't try harder to help him, but I don't think that's reasonable. Thoughts??

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:21 pm 
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Wow, Hatmaker, the whole experience sounds like a real ordeal for you...sorry to chime in so late on your thread, but yeah, it doesn't sound like you could have done anything differently than you did at the end there, with the guy coming to your house after you asked him not to, and then him getting abusive, etc. I'm wondering, are you going to continue having this group at your home after this? Personally, I think that it's most likely you won't have any further problems from this guy, but I would be conmcerned that something similar could happen with another person like him in the future. It sounds like you feel ok, but I do wish you had more help with this in-person group--I think it would be a shame for you to give up the idea (I too wish there was something like it near me) but there is always that possiblilty that you end up with someone out of control and then they know where you live, etc.


Anyway, I apologize i wasn't following your thread sooner, I knew you had kicked the guy out but I didn't realize unjtil now the repercussions. Anyway, I'm glad you're ok, and yes, I do think you handled it well.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:18 pm 
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Thanks, auto, for your response and feedback and also for your support. I guess that's all I was looking for here - a little bit of support.

Other than a few more harassing text messages to the other member, I've not heard from him. I can't tell you how very glad I am that it's over. Now I have to decide if I'm going to be done with the group, too. I'm paid thru December 15 (and have received zero donations in the last 8 months), so I'll decide by then whether or not to renew the website and continue with the group.

Thanks again for the support.

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:52 pm 
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Dear Hat,

Oh how I wish that I lived close to you! I would come to the meetings for sure. I would love to meet and talk with you - you have so many great things to say and have helped so many including myself. I really admire you. I had to look at a map to see where you live in relation to where I live and it is 600 miles away! I am not well traveled. I live in NY in the country on a dirt road in the middle of nowhere, (which is OK because we love it here). I have dial-up and I couldn't even get Verizon to help me with hi-speed internet as they say we live too far out. I tried to get on the Monday night meeting in the chat room and my poor computer can't even download it!

I admire you greatly for what you tried to do in terms of starting a meeting. I've been in (and out) of recovery for nearly 20 years, been to rehab, to out-pt rehab, and I was a nurse in a long term inpatient facility, a therapeutic community of 60 patients, from 2000 - 2002. (I was the only nurse in the place!) So I've met a LOT of recovering people, as have we all. Anyway, my point is that there are two types of people whom you meet in recovery. One type has the desire to get sober and is willing to listen to others, learn, try, and contribute. The other type is still in their active addictions even though they may not be using. They have gotten caught somehow and are interested in doing what they have to do to stay out of trouble or get out of trouble, use if possible without getting caught, and putting it over on the system. That's the nature of the disease and the latter often become the former, just from exposure to the others in the rooms. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with that, it's just that people who do not yet have recovery do not yet have the capacity to be honest. Unfortunately, this puts you and yours at risk when you invite strangers to your home. I have to say, I think you handled it very well. I would have been scared. My personal opinion is that no matter how well-intentioned you may be, having people into your home is a potentially dangerous and unsafe situation for you. But, I give you all sorts of credit for doing it!

I can imagine that I understand how you feel about wanting to get a meeting going. Gee, it would be so great to get together with like-minded folks who do utilize Sub as one of their recovery tools. As I have said before I would never bring this up at a AA/NA meeting, because there are so many who disagree with it. As I say, if I lived close I would love to come to a meeting! I just felt that I had to chime in and give my 2-cents' worth, because I felt nervous and scared when I read your posts about the young man who treated you that way.

Sincerely yours,
~Rossma


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:16 pm 
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P.S.

I don't mean to frighten you, but we all know how desperately awful we feel when we go into withdrawal. This is when crimes are committed and when people would do anything, but anything, to get rid of that feeling. For my own part, I stole medication from the hospital where I worked to feed my habit, and I would never ever do that now. It's not something I'm proud of, and it's not me, but it is the nature of addiction and especially opiate addiction because the w/d is so unbearable.

Now this guy knows where you live and knows that there is Suboxone on the premises. You have no idea what people are capable of so I guess I am just saying: PLEASE BE CAREFUL!

Love,
Rossma


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:01 pm 
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Thanks, Rossma, for your support and concern. I did open myself up a bit, didn't I? I'm not too worried about him coming back with stealing on his mind - I've got two medium-sized, very loud dogs (one a pit mix)...People tend to steer clear of our house.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the two types of people in recovery. I never even thought about that before. It's interesting and I may consider that when making my decision to continue with or stop the meetings. I really do know these things take time, but I'm fighting a chronic pain condition and this has seriously worn me down. I've got decisions to make, that's for sure.

Thanks SOOOOO much, everyone, for coming through and supporting me...I really needed it.

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:11 pm 
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Hi again Hat, and everyone else. That is a good point about your dogs offering you (and your home) some protection. I feel better about your situation now that you've mentioned that. Rossma's point really is valid too--that people can get very desperate when they're in (or afraid of) WD. And I guess sub would be as attractive as any other opiate to a desperate addict and having these meetings in your home does potentially leave you open to desperate addicts. But barking dogs really can do a great job at deterring crimes! They are like an alarm system, they hear things before we do and use their other senses too to detect the presence of intruders, the barking attracts attention, etc. Even so though, it might be better to find another place for the meetings eventually, if they do continue. Anyway, it's too bad about this incident after how hard you've worked to get the meetings going. I really hope things turn around in a positive way before you decide to throw in the towel. But I can see your point--the website and other aspects of the meetings cost you money and you've been trying at this for a while now. Still, let's hope you get some members before the deadline you've set for yourself.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:10 am 
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I have 3 huge dogs, the largest one is a black hairy beast weighing in at 140 lbs! There is no better protection than a loyal dog or two. I feel a lot better about your situation as well, now that you mentioned that. ~Rossma


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:49 am 
I'm sorry too, for how things turned out. But you deserve such a pat on the back for trying this, whether you continue on or not. As you mentioned, with your medical conditions, if stress and worry causes you to feel worse, then that may be the only further signal you need to let it go for a while. I still feel like overall it was good for your recovery, spoke well of where you're at, so to speak. To be trusting enough in humankind to open your heart and your home to help others in need was a step towards being well. I think, as addicts, we tend to get this jaded outlook (not without reason) but in some ways it's not good. The more we can try to see the world as a safe place, and people as mostly positive and worthy of help, the more confident we become in ourselves as a part of this world....and to do that without drugs is a good thing. At least in my opinion. So don't let it get you down. You did what you felt was good and right and healthy with all good intentions. So no matter what the outcome, 'you done good!'
Sidenote: My little 12 pound Shih Tzu I swear would tear someone's leg off if she felt threatened or if I were threatened!! Yea dogs!!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:11 pm 
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Hey hat I just thought I needed to let you know how much you're appreciated here. I'm sure you're feeling relatively discouraged that the meeting didn't take off like we were all hoping it would but I know none of us here would say that nothing good resulted from your effort, time, and energy.

I can remember several different times I've really tried to reach out and help an addict that is struggling only to see them end up using again anyways. The first several times I was really mad at those individuals for "wasting my time". Then one day I for some reason was thinking about all the people that tried to help me get and stay clean before I was ready to try and make any changes and I'm sure those people must have been pretty upset that they spent time on trying to help only to see me continue using. Afterwords not only did I feel less upset about the people that didn't seem to want my help but I also realized that there really isn't any way of knowing for sure that I/you didn't help those individuals.

Even though the situation with "J" got a bit ugly towards the end you were willing to reach out to help a suffering addict! That a really big deal in and of itself hat. Lol not sure if you guys can relate but I'm still a pretty big jerk even after several years of not using anymore. I was a true ASS when I was using so if this guy was anything like me then you earned some major Kudos for handling the "incident" in such a controlled and non agressive way. On top of that you also were willing to risk potential legal action in order to try and give "J" another chance which I personally think was very commendable of you.

Finally it really sucks that opiate dependance has such a high rate of relapse and mortality but that's unfortunately the way things are now. The fortunate thing however is that people like you hat have taken up the calling to help others like us when you can.

Thanks for everything you do here hatmaker! I just hope you're able to keep things in perspective and realize how much good you've done here even if you encountered some minor problems getting an in person meeting going :)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:11 am 
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Thanks to all of you for all the support and kind words you've given me. I am a bit less discouraged today than I was the last several weeks. To be completely honest, I found myself in the midst of a pretty deep depression, but my antidepressants have since been increased and I'm starting to feel better. I'm glad I didn't make any rash decisions during that time. Now that's not to say that I won't be throwing in the towel in December, because I still might. Part of the reason is (...drumroll, please...) I got a new member for my group this week! He found us from doing a Google search. Now with that said, I'm not terribly excited because I've had members join only to never hear from them again. I emailed him a welcome, but haven't gotten a response yet, so I'm cautiously optimistic.

I have to say, being able to talk to you all about this has kept me going with this effort. I know I've said this before, but whatever success I have with this endeavor, some of the credit goes to all of you as well. Also, this forum has built up my confidence in my recovery and has allowed me the courage to even try. So thanks!! I'll keep you posted.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:12 am 
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Update on the new member I got last week: I HAVEN'T HEARD A WORD FROM HIM SINCE JOINING! No response to my email either. See why I wasn't holding my breath? Oh well....

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:06 pm 
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Rats! I am disappointed for you. Thank you, though, for everything you have done to help others, including me! Again, I wish I lived nearby - I would definitely come to the meeting!! ~Rossma


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:29 am 
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Just wanted to let you know that I, too, would attend your group if I lived close to where you live. I don't have anything like that in my city that I am aware of.

I would also like to say that I think that it's absolutely ridiculous that so many people say they will show up and then don't...why the hell do they do that? It's THEIR decision to go....maybe they are all relapsing? I don't know, I just wanted to let you know how baffling I thought that was, and to wish you luck if you do decide to keep the group going. I think that you did really well and worked really hard, and that is very admirable.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:49 am 
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Thanks, Melsie. I appreciate the kind words.

Well, I think I'm ready to throw in the towel. That new member I got a few weeks ago never contacted me in any way. Just joined online then disappeared. Oh well. My website fee is paid through something like Dec 15, so I'll be shutting it down before that.

I just wanted to thank you all for the great support you've given me in this endeavor. It wasn't a complete failure or anything. I reached out to some people, I made a great friend, and more than anything, I think I've learned a lot about addiction in general and my own addiction since I started the group. So it wasn't a total loss.

Just wanted to keep you all updated, since you've been with me since I started this project. Thanks again for the support.

HAT

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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