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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 9:55 am 
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I have abused opiates since 2004 working up the opiate food chain. I started Suboxone a year and a half ago and it helped me live a normal life again. I started at 12mg in the AM and in a week was down to 8mg a day. Over the last few months I have been on 2mgs and had a taper plan my dr gave me to quit but I didn't follow it (go figure). I took my last 2mg dose on Wed morning (5/25) around 8am so I am 96 hours in. I am just worried when to expect the worst and how long it will last. Dr gave me 2mg valium 3 times a day and I didn't have to take it until late yesterday. Also took ambien for sleep for the 1st time last night.


Any answers would help!!


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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 1:58 pm 
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Well, let me give you the "good news" first and that would be that some people report not having much of a problem when stopping Suboxone from a dose of 2mg. I have heard both from doctors and patients who have done this and made it through without too much trouble.

Now for the "bad news", those people seem to be in the minority. From what you have provided it sort of looks like your doc is among the large group of physicians who don't know how to properly bring someone off of Suboxone. For many people 2 mg is way too high of a dose to stop from - like ten times too high. His use of valum is also not a good idea. The Ambien could go either way. More commonly, a blood pressure medication called Clonidine is used to help with withdrawal symptoms and a more natural aid for sleep. Short term use of a sleep aid like Ambien is not the worst thing, but it too can become an addiction.

In general, the best way to stop Sub is to get yourself down to (at most) 0.5 mg or 25% of what you stopped at. Many other people claim they needed to get down to 0.1 mg and even then had withdrawal symptoms. While I don't know this for certain, somewhere along the line Sub docs seem to have been told that patients can stop from 2mg as many, many, many Sub docs tell their patients this. It simply is not found to be accurate when attempted by patients. Although, as I stated, some people seem to do just fine this way.

As to your actual question of when will you feel it... typically the third day is where it starts. You will likely peak around the 7th to 10th days. After the 10th day you should start to see and feel a long, slow drop from the peak. At about day 30 many people say they are at about 80% or so of normal.

The whole stopping Sub and tapering is way bigger of a topic than I can provide here. If you spend a few hours looking around here at previous posts, you are certain to find a lot of info on what other people have done to taper and stop their Sub. You can only do what works best for you. It is not like coming off 200 mg of Oxy. However, it is not a walk in the park either. Others have made it through and you can too. However, the easiest path is most often a long, slow taper down to a fraction of a milligram and then stop.

Hope that helps. Best of luck to you!


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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 2:57 pm 
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Thanks..Today has been the worst day so far and I have 2 more days before I go back to work. I hope I am able to hang in there.


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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 5:50 pm 
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This afternoon was a little better then this morning I was able to fall asleep for a hour and a half. The valium helps but I need to make sure I am not trading one thing for another. Dr only gave me a 7 day supply so I am going to use as needed. I hope all the physical fun :shock: is almost done by Wed morning. I will keep everyone posted each day. Like I said in my first post I took my last 2mg tablet at 8am Wed 5/25/11 (106 hours ago,lol). I know I should of done more to follow my Doctors taper plan but this will be my only really long weekend away from work for months. IT IS ALL IN!

Any feedback or questions are welcome!


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 Post subject: Don't Worry
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 11:31 pm 
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It sounds like you're doing great! Don't put too much thinking into this withdrawal period. IMHO, half of the discomfort we feel generates from our heads. Addicts tend to worry too much about how bad they will feel. It may not be so bad. A lot of people have posted here who got through the w/d's okay. I've read more stories on other support forums.

So try to chill out and think about something else. It sounds like you're doing all the right things. This WILL be behind you some day.

The more success stories we have here the better.


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 12:55 am 
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Hey TimeToStop,

While 2mg can be a bit of a high dose to jump from, I think because you got down to 2mg and stayed there for a couple of months that it's helping you.

Your last post marks 4.5 days off of Suboxone. From what I can read in your latest reply, your doing very good. I jumped off around 5mg of Suboxone and by day 4 I was sucking pavement hard. Like donh said, it progressed until day 10 for me. I know this though, at day 4 or 5, there was no way in hell I was gonna be posting anything on the internet, I did good to move my ass off the couch to the front porch to have a cigarette.

The Valium will defintely help, good thing you only got a week's supply. The Ambien, well, be careful with that shit. If you wake up not long after taking it you will find yourself in the Twilight Zone, not remembering things you did. I drove 1/2 hour to the store around 1am in the morning and then came home....I only remembered little tiny bits and pieces of it, as far as I remember, I didn't even buy anything?? The Ambien would help get me to sleep, but I always woke up within an hour or so, after the joy ride I took, my wife tossed 'em for me.

Keep posting and hang in there!!

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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 10:38 am 
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Well another day has passed. I feel a little better this AM, I took Imodium last night for the 1st time. The stomach issues were the worst yesterday. Today they don't seem as bad but time will tell. I am 127hrs in and I hope I am turning a corner!


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 11:26 am 
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I hope you are turning a corner too!! I really do. I think you are pretty tough for surviving these early days. Everyone is so different that it's hard to predict how long it will last. My friend jumped from 1 mg, but she'd only been at 1 for three weeks, and before that she was at 2 mg. She was really sick for one week and then it let up a whole lot. After a week, she was doing okay, getting around, getting stuff down. Not back to 'normal' but not super sick whatsoever. The thing is that even if you don't feel fantastic in another few days, even feeling noticeably better will feel like feeling fantastic to you. You can do this!!!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 5:28 pm 
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Thanks all for the support so far. I know this is going to be a long battle, but I can handle it. I am not going to take the ambien tonight because that has always made me feel like I drank a bottle of Jager the night before :twisted:. It helped me get through nights 3 and 4 but I am going to stick with the valium tonight and see how that makes me feel tomorrow. The hardest thing right now is knowing I have to be back at my crazy job first thing Tues morning!!!!


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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 5:58 pm 
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Actually, going back to work will probably help you. Withdrawal is a mental game, being at work should keep your mind off of your wd, at least it will from time to time.

Do everything you can to keep your mind occupied, that's my best advice for you at this particular moment in time. If you can get any kind of exercise in, that helps a lot too. If you're like me, your mind and body are screaming at you to go lay on the couch and not do anything. Right now, if your brain is telling you to do that, it's WRONG!!

Hang in there, you're doing GREAT!!

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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:23 am 
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Well I didn't have to work today I thought today was wed for some crazy reason (good thing). The sleep was hard last night I waited till I couldn't take the moving around and took ambien and had a zombie sleep again. My head is in a fog but the chills and stomach issues have slowed down.

It will be 1 week since my last dose tomorrow at 8am!!!


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 Post subject: WINNING!!
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:37 am 
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Wow! You are almost at a week!! That is huge!! I absolutely believe you can make it if you've gone this long.

How is the anxiety? To me, when that kicks up, it is the worst of symptoms. I think I could handle the other things, but that anxiety monster freaks me out. Also, did your stomach actually hurt pretty bad? That's been happening to me these past two days and I'm tapering still. It's a crampy feeling. Maybe I need to eat less fatty stuff? If that is happening to you, does the Immodium help with it or does it only help with diarrhea?

I'm wishing the best for you when you go back to work. I do think it will be rough to get going in the morning, but once you are going, I think it will help you get through this and maybe even help you sleep better. Also, and I know how crazy this may sound, if you can do anything physical to wear yourself out, you will likely get more sleep. I have no room to brag, because (again) still tapering, but I'm feeling sluggish but literally forcing myself to go outside and move around. It makes you feel worlds better. If you do just a tiny little bit of something outside typically it will make you feel like you can do even more, and before you know it, you have done some significant physical activity, gotten some sun, and you feel better and pleasantly worn out at night.

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 12:49 pm 
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Laddertipper,
When you do jump you MUST have Imodium (unless you have any of the symptoms or warning signs on the bottle). I learned about this a few years ago and am not sure if it is true or not, but the "loperamide HCl" in Imodium is a mild opiate, but it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier. So the imodium just stays in your stomach and won't hit the receptors in your brain that make you feel high. This is what causes it to work so good because it is acting as an opiate to your stomach and we all know what that means :x. I found that using it for 3 or 4 days once a day has helped wtih all stomach issues.

To answer your other question about the anxiety that is tough to answer. The 1st 3 days were not bad for me, but day 4 and 5 were. The 2mg valium has helped me but I know that is not going to be a long term solution. We are all different so time will tell. I hope that you are getting most of it out of your system with your taper and the anxiety will be minor.

The hardest thing for me so far is sleep and the lack of energy during the day. I did take a 5hr energy drink and that helped a little this morning.


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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:34 pm 
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Hello Time to Stop, and everyone else!

I know what you are going through exactly, and I really mean exactly. I've been on subs for 2 1/2 years, and I've been stuck at 2mg a day for the past year. Last Wednesday I ran out of subs, because I didn't follow my taper schedule (is there an echo in here?). I had to go 6 days without them, and it was pretty much pure torture. The first day I ran out, I told myself I should take this opportunity to quit Subs for good, but I made that decision pretty quick without thinking about it much. After the first 2 days I realized that this wasn't the healthiest way for me to quit subs, and not even try to taper them correctly.

I didn't prepare for it, so I felt like this wouldn't be the way for me to have closure on this part of my life. I mean, I've been on subs for almost 3 years so I don't want it to end this way. I don't want it to end as an accident where I didn't control any of it. I want to feel the empowerment of planning a true taper schedule, and minimizing the withdrawel. My life is really boring at the moment, so I give in to anxiety and depression easily. So, long story short I started subs again today, but I dropped my dose in half to 1mg per day.

Now I will taper off by 10-15% every week until this script is gone. I'm not 100% happy about getting back on subs just to taper down and do some withdrawels again, but I know I will be a lot more Emotionally intact this time around.

What I found out this week is that the worst part of the Withdrawels was pretty much over by day 5 and 6. Days 2-4, I was having horrible anxiety and I even sobbed a few times. I didn't eat for 4 days, which wasn't smart, but I didn't have a choice. Since I was at 2mg like you, I can pretty much promise you that the worst is almost over. After the first 7 days, I usually have to deal with restless body syndrome, no sleep, and overall uncomfort. However, Anxiety goes down quite a bit after the first days of it. I even found myself smiling and talking to my family and my nephew on day 6.

It will be hard, but you can do it! Stay strong, and try to remember that next month you will feel like a new person, and your senses start to come back after the first week or so. Don't give in to the temptation to get back on them. I admit I am very weak minded, but I hope someone can learn from my mistakes. Trust me. You're doing the right thing!

-Stranger


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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:54 pm 
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Thanks...I have had this past weekend lined up for almost 2 months (And all the thoughts drove me crazy). I talked to my Dr today and he had the nerve to say "if you listened to my taper and stopped when I told you this would all be over". Kick a man when he is down why don't you :twisted:. I laughed and said have you ever been through this (knowing the answer)?


Quote:
"The trunk of the car looked like a mobile police narcotics lab. We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers . . . and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls . . . Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. And I knew we'd get into that rotten stuff pretty soon."
--Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

Had to throw that in because imagine the first 7 days after that trip with friend! :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:29 pm 
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promethazine works great on the nausea laddertipper


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:06 am 
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Well it has been 1 week since my last 2mg dose. I again had trouble sleeping last night and had to take ambien (I hate it but it works for me). As far as the 2mg valium I only had to take it twice yesterday and not 3 times. I have to go to work in a hour and am only going to take 1 valium with me and try to keep it at 1 today. My other symptoms are tired, mild chills, and mild sweats. I hope the worst of the acute stuff is done. I hope to look back and remember June 1st as the day I started to become myself again!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:40 am 
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For many of us, sleep seems to be one of the last things to return to normal after quitting opiates. It seems that a lot of us are only able to sleep for 3 or 4 hours at a time during this initial wd time frame too.

Honestly, you're doing remarkably well for jumping off 2mg and being 1 week out.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:13 am 
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sm0zy, isn't promethazine Phnergan? I love that stuff. I took the suppositories for 1.5 years after my head injury, because I was so sick to my stomach all the time. The thing is that I don't have nausea. My stomach has been aching/cramping on and off for a couple days. It's not bad, though.

TimeToStop, you are doing soooooo well!! I am impressed with you, because it must have been scary to know you had to go back to work and to not know how you would feel, but you are facing it and taking it as it comes. Going back to work only one week out definitely qualifies as doing very well. I can't wait to hear how it goes and whether it helps distract you from the symptoms you still have. I'd think the worst case scenario would be that your acute peaks in a couple days. However, I don't think that will happen, because from what you're saying, it sounds like it has already peaked for you and you're on the decent. YAY, you!!!!

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:12 pm 
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Well work was very busy and it did take my mind off of the acute stuff. I was very lucky that I didn't have to go in until 11am this morning and not the normal 8am. The first hour was tough but once I got going it was good. It is funny because everyone asked how my vacation was :?. I said it was fantastic :oops:.

I still have chills, sweats, yawning a lot, stomach not 100% and exhausted. The valium has taken away the anxiety but I will only be taking that until Sat.

I am also on Lexapro 20mg I didn't post that before. My Dr started me on that once we decreased to 2mgs (about 2 months ago). I think this has helped with the little energy I have and the positive additude.


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