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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:48 am 
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Hey Tiki,

I think you are doing the right thing sticking with 16mg until you feel better. It sounds like your tolerance was pretty high, and you just might be one of us who needs the extra few mgs for a little while. I don't believe it will make it any harder when you are ready to taper. The reason we usually advise people to stick with the smaller doses is because most people just don't need that much to feel better. And, it tends to increase the frequency of side effects. I haven't heard you mention many of those, and IMO you need the extra until you stableize.

As for what you heard about being able to drop to 8mg with little effort, I think that's spot on. Once you feel good for awhile and your receptors are good and saturated you should be able to drop with minimal discomfort. The ceiling effect of this drug is a funny thing. Goes totally against what we were used to with other opiates.

Good luck girl!

Let us know how you are today!

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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:49 am 
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Karen

Thank you for always being here for me. I am having a harder time then most i think. Last night i put muscle cream all over my legs. I didn't smell very good LOL I feel a bit better today but this has really been a "process". I know i am on to much sub. I have that speedy feeling but not as bad as the other day.

My question is because people have told me to stay on one dose but i am not sure for how long.

Question-how long should i stay at 16 before i drop to 12? I think i will feel better on 12 or maybe even 8.

Congrats on your pregnancy! It's truly a Miracle! I wish i could go back in time & do it over..I loved being pregnant & having the kids. Enjoy every minute because time fly's. My kids are all out of the house for good & it's so weird - time flew.


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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:55 am 
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Karen

We were posting at the same time LOL

How many days should i stay on 16? I am not having real w/d. It's just my legs. They feel better now but i will have to see how they are at the end of the day.

Thanks so Much
xo


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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:02 am 
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Hey Tiki,

I'm Qhorsegal....not Karen! LOL :P :P

If it were me, I would stick with 16 for about a week, then kind of re-evaluate how you feel. If you are still having the leg aches (which for me is always the worst symptom of WD and the last to leave) you might want to stay another week. If you feel better, then you can start to drop. Maybe go to 12mg for a week, then down to 8mg.

Once you are feeling 100% it SHOULDN'T be to hard to drop. But, this isn't a cookie cutter kind of thing, so you need to pay attention to how you feel and do what works for you.

:D Q

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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:15 pm 
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Hey QHorsegal....I'm not sure you would want to be me either, ESPECIALLY right now! :lol: Probably wouldn't want to be me anytime for that matter!!! :D


Hey there Tiki!

In my own personal opinion I would take QHorsegal's suggestion and remain on the 16mg about a week, give or take a day or so either way. Let your body be your guide, and it will usually let you know when the time is right to reduce your dose. I reduced about every 4-7 days usually towards the end and that seemed to work out just fine!

It's also very important as Q~Horse said to take careful note of how your feeling at all times, and what works best. What I did, and have done since I've been here is use my own thread as a type of journal and post just about every single day how I felt, what I was doing with regard to my taper, how each dose felt, how each dose reduction went, etc. It's so nice to be able to look back at your notes, or posts and see how far you have come, and exactly what has happened along the way. Post as often as you possibly can is my suggestion!

I can also tell you I was on 24mg in the beginning. I wanted off, my doctor didn't want me off, so I began tapering anyway without his knowledge. I went down when I felt like it, and reduced sporadically, which is NOT what you want to do. I went to for example...24mg to 20mg to 16mg to 12mg to 8mg to 6 mg to 4 mg and then to 2mg and joined here. I spent 2-3 days on one dose and 4-5 on other doses, and even 7 or more days on yet other doses. In other words, I was all over the place.....not what YOU want to do Tiki. Make a slow, steady ,and controlled taper and you should have very few problems!

And what I wanted to say above in my long-winded way was that I felt just about the same on the higher doses as I did on the lower ones!!!! A dose of 8mg for example held and kept me out of withdrawals just as good as 12-24mg did!!!! And even when I got down to 2mg I felt the same as I did on all the higher doses!!!! Now this may not be true for anyone else, but it sure was for me Tiki!!!

So in regards to that fact I firmly believe when your ready to reduce to 12mg you won't even notice the difference! This is my own personal opinion here, but I feel that once a person gets good and stable on whatever dose it takes to get the job done, it then takes very little sub to keep the person stable! Everyone really is different, and this may or may not be the case for you, bit it sure was in my own case.

Just my thoughts here girl! Hope I have helped!

Karen xoxo


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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:34 pm 
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Q Horse-Please accept my apologies! I wasn't very awake i guess LOL I am listening to you both because you have been there & done that.

My plan was to stay on sub a max of 3 months. I think i was more physically dependent. I had a take it or leave it attitude about pain meds for many years. I stayed low on the hydro for a couple of years & for what ever reason my tolerance went sky high. Once i got on the oxy's it went up much quicker. I am not a stupid woman though & i want to taper off because i have been using for several years & dont' want unexpected cravings. I want to have my support in place & feel good about myself again.

Today was a bit better. The doctor gave me robaxin (spelling?) the muscle relaxer for my legs. He felt the spasms when i popped in to see him. I used to have a pretty high tolerance for pain, gave birth with no meds after 30 hours in labor so that says something & as i have said ,for years i threw out more pills than i took, but this leg pain is awful. Doc says it is w/d related...will quiet down soon & to use muscle relaxers...well i forget to fill them because i got out of work late & just wanted to get home & put my legs up. Urghh

He gave me a script for a month of sub & asked if i was following directions, of course i said yes so now i am well on my way to creating my "taper stash" LOL

Will check in tomorrow...I Love YOU ALL. Such amazing support here!


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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:53 am 
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No worries Tiki! I thought it was funny. :D I am quite flattered to be mistaken for Karen, she's a pretty smart little cookie.

I noticed you got a script for Robaxin, or Methocarbamol. I was prescribed these for quite awhile when I was at the worst of my addiction. It seemed to be my doctors first line of defense when I would complain about muscle pain. They aren't very strong, and don't make you sleepy like most other muscle relaxers. I guess they helped a little bit, but I did see someone else here mention a few days ago that they had been using it at the end of their taper and had good luck with it. Maybe it will help!

I hope you feel back to normal tomorrow!

Q

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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:17 am 
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Karen

Sorry i didn't reply to you last night. I just wanted to put my legs up & didn't stay on the computer very long.

When i read your thread it reminded me of the saying "when a door closes a window opens" You had to have surgery & i know that's scary especially being preggers & tapering but it also allowed you the unique opportunity to stop. How wonderful!

Thank you for your support!


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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:35 am 
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Good Morning Tiki!

You don't have to apologize for not posting girl! :D You take care of yourself first always and worry about us second! Believe me I completely understand and would have done the very same thing!

I sure hope you can get some relief from that leg pain soon. Have you tried those hot soaks with Epsom Salts in the tub yet? That really helps to take away my sore and tired aching muscles and pain after I work out each day. Might give you a little relief!

I was so scared at the thought of having to have that surgery! I was very sick and just knew it wasn't from sub withdrawals. If I hadn't went to the ER when I did I would have been in real trouble most likely.

But as you said, it did offer me the opportunity to get off the subs. I didn't want to get to liking the narcotics after surgery either, so I took them for just the one day and that's it! The pain wasn't really that severe anyway and otc meds worked great! It's amazing how well things like Tylenol, Motrin, Ibuprofen, and Aleve work if you give them an honest chance! It all worked out fine!

So how are you feeling today Tiki? Any symptoms? I hope your doing great and feeling good!

Hugs,
Karen xoxo


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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:39 am 
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The leg pain is muscle spasms..aka RLS-my sub doc is very conservative. I will fill the robaxin & use it if necessary, otherwise it goes into my "comfort kit" for when i quit. He knows i am on xanax for severe anxiety/panic disorder & said i have to get that from someone else. Yesterday when i saw him i asked if he was allowed to write it, just seemed odd that he can write sub & not xanax. His reply was he could write for anything & everything but he chooses not to. He was nice about it, he knows i ask alot of questions LOL

I slept the entire nite but because i want to use this as my journal i have to admit i took 10 mg of hydro. When i was using that was my routine. I doubt the hydro did anything but i did sleep all night.

I don't find i look forward to taking the sub, if anything i stall taking it. That will be a very good thing when i start the taper. I have been awake for an hour & just now feeling the "need" to take the sub & get it over with. I hate the orange taste & it seems to last all day...even when i brush my teeth. Any one else have that?

Overall I am feeling better. I do have go to a doc today because i have a UTI or a kidney infection, there is blood in my urine urghh. We have an urgent care in my building & i should have gone last night because i knew something was wrong but like i said i just want to get home.


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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:53 am 
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You did WHAT Tiki???

You took 10mg of Hydo last night? Why would you do that girl??? I'm NOT judging you in any way here, but that is NOT what you want to be doing!!!! And your right, the sub blocked it anyway so why even bother??? Come on girl, Suboxone is meant to be taken alone and not with any other opiate! Did you think the Hydro was going to help you sleep or what? Or maybe relieve some of your leg pain? I'm just SHOCKED you would do that Tiki?

It's great that you admit to taking it. But please reconsider why your on the sub ok?

You say you don't look forward to taking the sub. Are you still looking for that high feeling the Hydro might give you? Again, no judgment Tiki, I'm just extremely surprised you would take that Hydro at this point!!!

Karen


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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:12 am 
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Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
You did WHAT Tiki???

You took 10mg of Hydo last night? Why would you do that girl??? I'm NOT judging you in any way here, but that is NOT what you want to be doing!!!! And your right, the sub blocked it anyway so why even bother??? Come on girl, Suboxone is meant to be taken alone and not with any other opiate! Did you think the Hydro was going to help you sleep or what? Or maybe relieve some of your leg pain? I'm just SHOCKED you would do that Tiki?

It's great that you admit to taking it. But please reconsider why your on the sub ok?

You say you don't look forward to taking the sub. Are you still looking for that high feeling the Hydro might give you? Again, no judgment Tiki, I'm just extremely surprised you would take that Hydro at this point!!!

Karen


Reads like judgement. I took it to see if i could get some pain relief from the legs. Dumb thing to do but i could obsess over it or do it. I have no cravings just want relief from pain. Not looking for a high, if i wanted to see if i could get high i would have taken many hydro's. I am on sub because i can't deal with the pain of w/d. Had a big problem with my heart in January when i tried to jump, hoping sub will be an easier quit if i do it properly.


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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:41 am 
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Hey Tiki,

I don't think Karen was judging you. It's just a surprize, that's all. I think alot of us have tested the waters to see if SOA's would breakthrough the subs at some point as well. Now you know it won't, so please don't take the risk of your doctor finding out you have used again and kicking you out of the program. It's just not worth it, especially since it's not going to give you ANY pain relief! You would have to take a HUGE amount of hydro to breakthrough the subs at the dose you are on.

Please don't feel like you can't come here and be honest. We won't judge you because we have all been there, but you might get a few "HUH?" reactions because your posts sounded like you were doing very good with your switch.

Hopefully you figured it out and will move on from it. You don't have a drug test in the next week do you?

Q

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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:57 am 
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Tiki wrote:
Reads like judgement. I took it to see if i could get some pain relief from the legs. Dumb thing to do but i could obsess over it or do it. I have no cravings just want relief from pain. Not looking for a high, if i wanted to see if i could get high i would have taken many hydro's. I am on sub because i can't deal with the pain of w/d. Had a big problem with my heart in January when i tried to jump, hoping sub will be an easier quit if i do it properly.



I'm sorry you felt that way Tiki, but I can assure you I truly meant no judgement by my post. In my nearly 300 posts I have yet to make any kind of judgement on anyone here for any reason, and I never will either! I tried to carefully word my post, but seems I did a poor job of it.

As QHorse says, i don't want you to be afraid of being honest either. I highly commed you for being honest with us and admitting what you did. Lord knows I have done the very same, and even worse that that too! As was said, I was just surprised is all and nothing more.

Karen xoxo


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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:10 am 
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Tiki, it doesn't shock me in the least you took some. In fact, I'd be shocked if you didn't. I can't tell you how many times I tried to take something. And I did it just for kicks! Not even trying to deal with pain. Just straight up for kicks. About oh the 15th time it finally occurred to me that ain't shit was going to happen and that the sub was successfully blocking any high I was attempting. The sad part I wasn't even craving. They were laying in my kitchen and I succumbed to the compulsion. Blessedly, that practice finally got frustrated to death. I just can't ever have easy access to them.

I believe Karen wasn't judging. It's just that you seem to have a really good handle on this and we haven't heard you talk about craving, so we didn't expect you to try one. It is a VERY common thing to do. You'll eventually tire of the frustration (if you continue to dabble in hydro) and will realize the sub is your friend. You may even not resent it as much down the road.

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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:50 am 
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qhorsegal2 wrote:
Hey Tiki,

I don't think Karen was judging you. It's just a surprize, that's all. I think alot of us have tested the waters to see if SOA's would breakthrough the subs at some point as well. Now you know it won't, so please don't take the risk of your doctor finding out you have used again and kicking you out of the program. It's just not worth it, especially since it's not going to give you ANY pain relief! You would have to take a HUGE amount of hydro to breakthrough the subs at the dose you are on.

Please don't feel like you can't come here and be honest. We won't judge you because we have all been there, but you might get a few "HUH?" reactions because your posts sounded like you were doing very good with your switch.

Hopefully you figured it out and will move on from it. You don't have a drug test in the next week do you?

Q


Q-Horse

I actually think i am having a hard time with the switch. Leg pain, back pain, diarrhea every morning (i know soon i will complain of constipation LOL) I have not felt like "me" yet, no energy, poor sleep etc blah blah blah

Because of my profession i also know i am only on sub 6 days & it will take time to switch & adjust. I was really cranky this morning (again) because i am tired of struggling. I will have to figure out other ways to deal with pain but it's just "over the top" right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:54 am 
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Karen & Minnie &-QHorse

I have only a minute. I have to go to the hospital. I don't have time to check back but yesterday & today i have been urinating blood...alot. Threw up on the way to work, went to urgent care because i work in a medical building & now i will probably be admitted. Just got the call from them.

Kidney stones or to much fluid on the kidney..not good. no infection but serious pain & blood

What will happen if i need surgery????? How will they knock me out at 16 mg & control post op pain? I am scared s-t less


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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:09 pm 
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Please don't worry yourself Tiki, any kind of surgery can be performed if someone is on subs. I am a case in point recently myself! Granted I was not on 16mgs of sub, but even if I were the doctors and surgeons know how to get things taken care of in that department. They have strong enough drugs to take care of business.

Ideally you would stop the subs prior to surgery for 1-3 or so days depending on the dose of subs according to my surgeon. I was told to stop for 1 day and I was on .50mg at the time. Even if you require emergency surgery as I was, they will be fully able to put you under and everything will be just fine. No need to worry about that right now, you have more urgent issues as to the cause of the bleeding!

Please do your best to keep us informed Tiki. We care about you very much and want you well and good! I wish you the absolute best and hope the problem is a minor one. We will all be waiting for your update when you are able. Take care of yourself girl!

Karen xoxo


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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:38 pm 
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Hey Tiki,

Dang girl, you ARE having a rough time! I'm so sorry, the timing of this couldn't be worse. But, you are going to be okay. First thing you need to do is inform you doctor that you are taking suboxone. Here's a link to some GREAT information on treating post-op pain while on buprenorphine. Print this out and give it to your doctor/surgeon so he knows how to treat your pain!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... s17732.pdf

These are the same recommendations that Dr. J gives on his blog.

It can be a bit more difficult if you don't have time to stop your subs a few days prior to surgery. That is what is usually recommended. But it is doable, and your doctor has to understand that since your receptors are being blocked by the sub he is going to have to give you larger than normal doses of pain meds to break through. This isn't about getting high, it's about getting adequate pain relief! Hopefully he will understand that.

Let us know how it goes k?

Q

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 Post subject: Re: Started Sub Sunday
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:14 am 
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I actually think i am having a hard time with the switch. Leg pain, back pain, diarrhea every morning (i know soon i will complain of constipation LOL) I have not felt like "me" yet, no energy, poor sleep etc blah blah blah

Because of my profession i also know i am only on sub 6 days & it will take time to switch & adjust. I was really cranky this morning (again) because i am tired of struggling. I will have to figure out other ways to deal with pain but it's just "over the top" right now.[/quote]


Hi Everyone,

I included this quote because I think it's important for anyone new reading this to understand i actually had the unfortunate experience of KIDNEY stones at the same time i switched to suboxone. I was miserable, still cranky, but at least i know why i haven't been feeling well.

It has been a learning experience because i attributed everything to the sub switch, but in my heart knew something wasn't right. Hopefully, i won't need surgery....the specialist wants more tests before we talk about options.

I was prescribed 600 mg motrin & for whatever reason it helps with the pain..i don't care if it's all in my head LOL I was in so much pain & feeling sick to my stomach etc, certainly not what i expected from reading others positive experience about the switch to sub.

Yesterday i only took 12 mg...not intentionally, i just forgot to take the other 4 mg. Since that happened i will stick with 12 mg for however long i feel i need to. Ideally i want to take just 4 mg a day & then seriously begin a taper.

I spoke to someone last night who was on suboxone for four months & tapered off with no issues. It was nice to talk to her & believe me i asked a million questions. She had alot of tips & is very pro-choice about maintenance to avoid relapse or for pain relief.

Today i feel a bit better, probably just knowing the pain was real & not w/d related relieved my mind. It has been a very stressful 2 weeks. Today is my 7th day on sub but it feels alot longer LOL
I am a routine type of person & i have to get a new routine because in 7 days i have messed up my sub dose twice...once i took more than i wanted & yesterday was less. I am trying to take it all by noon. Should i take it once a day or twice a day? Any Tips?

Thats my update. Sorry i was cranky. The pain was awful (still in pain but motrin helps) & i was desperate for pain relief which is why i took the hydro.


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