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 Post subject: Started Meds
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:22 pm 
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Well I started my Subs this morning. It took a few hours but am doing better. Started with 4mg and about hour later took another 4mg and started feeling better about lunch time. My question is when should I take the other 8mg. The Doc said to take 4mg four times per day. Do I wait till I feel bad or just take it at certain times. I also read somewhere that It should not be to close to bed time that It may interfear with my sleep. Any suggestions. Thanks to all. This forum has been such a great help!!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:52 pm 
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Another question. Should you spit out the saliva in your mouth or should you swallow it? I have seen some people say it causes headaches if swallowed. Just Curious as to what you guys do!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:14 pm 
Congragulations on your induction!! When i was taking sub twice a day, i would take it at 5 or 6a.m. Depends on what time i woke up but one of the 2. Then my second dose wouldnt be until about 4p.m. I would say to take it at the same times every day. Make it a routine so your body adjust to your dose properly. As for the swallow or spit thing, i used to take suboxone but i now take subutex, however when i took suboxone i always swallowed it with not many issues. I think i probably did get a headache or two but it may not have even been related to sub. Its really up to you. You can swallow it and see if it affects you. If it does, then start spitting it out. If it doesnt, then your good to go. Even if it does affect you, the nalaxone is said to last between 20 minutes and up to an hour so worse case scenario, you would only have to deal with it for a certain period of time. Hope this helps and again, congragulations!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:07 pm 
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It's great to hear that you are doing well and have taken a major step in getting your life back. I hope you'll continue to hang around here with us as there is just so much to learn not only about addiction in general but specifically about Suboxone. As to your questions, my first inclination is typically to have you follow your doctors instructions. However, it appears both that your doctor didn't give you specific enough direction and then also, perhaps, may be giving you some directions that are a bit outside typical practice. You don't say if you have pain issues to address as well as addiction. If you do have pain, then your doctor's directions seem very much in line with current best practices. While Suboxone will keep you out of withdrawals for at least 24 hours, it will only treat your pain for 4-6 hours - and even then, some people don't report very good pain relief (others do - just some do not). Anyhow, if you do need pain management, try to take your 4mg dose every six hours. Now, certainly I would not set an alarm clock to wake up at the 6 hour point during the night. Just get as close as you can. If you do not need pain management, the instructions to take four doses a day is a bit odd and not typical - not to mention difficult to do as dosing takes about 15 minutes when done right - that's an hour a day spent taking medication! Perhaps this is temporary and your doctor will move you to once or twice a day dosing shortly. 16 mg seems to be a very typical starting dose. You may or may not require that much to keep you cravings free and out of withdrawal. This will depend on many things. The general rule that many follow is to stay on the lowest effective dose. For some that is 8 mg. For others that is 12mg. Rarely does a patient need more than 16mg. Again, I'm speaking strictly about addiction here. If you are being treated for pain as well, these doses may not apply.

As for sleep issues, some people report that if they take Suboxone too close to bedtime it keeps them awake. I have found the exact opposite. Just like how full opiates would help me to sleep, Suboxone does the same. In fact, I take my dose at night. All you can do is give it a try and see. If you take 4mg and then can't sleep, you'll have your answer.

The spit/swallow thing again is a try it and see. If you get a headache, I would suggest you not swallow after you dose. I did have what may have been minor headaches and have since gone to the spit method. I think, for me, it just seemed to make more sense to me to spit it out since there really was no added benefit to swallowing. Simple as that. Again, it likely won't make a difference and you can just give it a try either way and see which works better for you.

In the short term you seem like you are doing well. As time moves on, unless you have pain issues, most doctors move patients to once or perhaps twice a day dosing and rarely exceed 16mg/day. There would be nothing wrong with your doctor doing this with you and perhaps even lowering your dose to 8 or 12mg/day. Don't panic if your doctor does suggest this.

I hope that helps. It sounds like you are well on your way. Keep it up!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:18 pm 
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Congratulations!!! Its a big first step in getting your life back! I used to troll these forums during my addiction and while I was getting ready for my induction but once I started my treatment I neglected to return to the forum for one reason or another. It is a good thing though because that means I was so busy with my " New Life " that I really forgot all about it! Recently I watched a friend of mine fall into the same nasty hole of opiate addiction and it set off a light in my head to get back on the Forum and start helping people and sharing my story so that others can see that there is light at the other side of the tunnel. Glad to hear you took the jump and I wish you nothing but sweet success! As far as your dosing goes it sounds like you got a good doctor that follows a good program to start you out all though once you are stable I dont see a need to dose so many times through out the day unless it is as stated for pain management. One habit you definitely want to break over time is looking forward to taking your pill at a certain time, this is an addicts mentality and it is not easily broken but eventually you can get to the point where you can dose once in the morning and forget about it! ( its a beautiful thing! ). I was one of those that got tremendous headaches from swallowing the left over saliva so I started to spit and the headaches went away. I'm sure it is different for everyone. GOOD LUCK AND KEEP US POSTED. :lol:

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 Post subject: Sleep......
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:36 pm 
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This is an issue that is always a pain in the ass for almost everyone starting Suboxone, PLEASE be patient about this... and Welcome, Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:03 pm 
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You've pretty much had all your questions answered. I will agree that for maintenance, 4 times a day is a bit excessive, but your doctor's probably just got you doing that during the stabilization period and will eventually switch you to once, maybe twice per day (unless as has been said, you're taking it for pain).

I swallow my suboxone instead of spitting and have never had problems with headaches.

Good luck and congratulations!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:11 am 
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I have screwed up!!!! My Main Friend come over this morning with his K4 package and before I know it I done it.....Did not feel anything..So do I continue with my subs or do I have to wait until this K4 gets out of my system before starting back. Worried about the Precipitated W/D ...I have got to tell these folks to stay away.....I am so weak minded in these situations. Dang it!!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:34 am 
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Is K4 a form of dilaudid? I've never heard of it, but I looked it up and that's all I found. Assuming that's what you're talking about, I'm not surprised you didn't feel anything. And if you only did it once, you should be fine to go back on the suboxone. I'd give myself a few hours though, just to be safe.

Don't beat yourself up too much. It happens. In fact it seems to me it's not unusual for it to happen early in treatment. Now that you tried it and have learned for yourself that it's just a waste to try to get high, now you can move forward with your recovery/remission. Look at is as a learning experience, don't focus on the negative, and get back up on that horse. You can do this!

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:54 am 
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Maybe it was for the best that you did what you did. I know, for myself, the fact that I knew suboxone was going to block the effects of other opiates played a big role in my keeping clean while on suboxone. Suboxone is such a great medication because it helps so much with the cravings and it blocks the effects of other opiates.

Try not to be too hard on yourself, pick yourself up and move forward.

Whatever you do, don't give up!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:02 pm 
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Thanks Hat.....The support that I am getting from you guys is really uplifting to me....Yes, the K4 is Dilaudid. I guess I will wait to take my subs a few hours from now...This Narcotics addiction is hell on wheels...My previous drugs of choice where alcohol and cocaine and when I decided that it was time for stop I was able to go to treatment and did not have as much of these mental cravings as with these opiates. Had a good 12 yrs of clean and sober and now this.....I do have a beteer understanding of what my fellow recovering friends have experienced from opiate addicion. This stuff is sooooo strong.....I was one of those people that did not think that Methodone and subs were the way to go. I had the attitude of switching one addiction for another, but I have been humbled. I tried so many time to stop this nonsense but was not able. This forum provided me with the hope i needed that this can work for me also......


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:14 pm 
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It's always so nice to hear that this forum is helping people. It's nice to be able to talk about this with people who understand, isn't it? I think of this forum as a big part of my recovery. Maybe you can think of it that way, too. Post as often as you need to...we'll always do our best to support you and assist in any way we can.

(I honestly don't know if you need to wait a few hours to take your sub or not, but if it were me, I would just to be on the safe side.)

Hang tough, my friend!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:26 pm 
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Perry,

You mention a previous addiction to cocaine and you can't believe how strong the opiate addiction is....I'm with ya there, man. I quit cocaine with relative ease only to graduate to opiate addiction. I remember the first time I went to stop opiates and thought Holy Smokes, what the heck is going on??

Again, this is why suboxone is so priceless. It allows you to get to a place of stability and then if you choose you can slowly wean yourself down. I took suboxone for almost 3 years, others will take it for the rest of their lives. Be patient and let it do it's thing, OK?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:59 pm 
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I only thought it was tough to stop drinking and using cocaine (The withdrawel) These opiates are so different. I have a new respect and attitide. This forum will help me to process the mental stuff by sharing with you guys. I still have not told anyone within my circle of recovery and am debating that. I was the Old Timer in the 12 step meetings but I am thinking I can fly under the radar and just keep this to myself for the short term. And then re-evaluate after my minds clears up and I start thinking a little more rationaly.....Living in a small town everyone knows I am in recovery and I have very public job and if it gets out that I had relasped it would cause great harm to me and my family, my job and other civic responsibilites that I have. I did step down from one of my position in the community a few months ago stating health reasons and just burned out on the service I was providing to the community (These are positions that don't pay but are elected to serve) It would be front page news if this got out.......Ok I am rambling but it helps me....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:54 pm 
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If I were in your shoes, I would probably keep it quiet, too. You've obviously built up a reputation and I think you're right - if word got out that you relapsed and are now on sub, well, you would probably get a rash of shit from some people. I mean we're talking about your livelihood, right? Take some time to yourself and get stable and start putting your life back together. You can always decide later who you want to share any of this with. I know I sure as hell wouldn't announce it.
Good luck to you.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:24 pm 
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I have to go out of town for a few days because of my work. Think this is a good thing so that I want be around all the temptaions and influences that may be coming by to visit me......I think I need to keep my mouth shut and just concentrate on getting myself better and keeping this to myself and of course with you guys. This helps me to relieve some of the guilt and shame that goes with this addiction. At least I am being honest with you guys......I will have my old laptop with me on the out of town trip so I will be able to stay in contact with this forum.......Thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:36 pm 
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Perry, I'll say one more thing, then I'll shut up. When it comes to shame, I firmly believe that when you stop living and focusing on the past that the shame goes away. Once we start living life for today and not dwelling on yesterday, then the shame starts to fall away. Focusing on the mistakes of yesterday only serves to solidify that shame and keep it in place. And what does shame do for us anyway? It prevents us from progressing forward in life. So forgive yourself and don't give it another thought. I can tell you this, when I stopped thinking about the past, my shame just dwindled away. I hope the same thing for you.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:34 am 
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Congrats!!! Don't worry about the relapse....all of us have done it many times before sub and some of us have tried to use opiods after being on Sub (as you know, it doesn't work and is a waste of money). Try to take it one day at a time, just worry about today and your immediate future. Try to do the next best thing. Learn to take care of yourself - once you do that you can worry about other people and things.

I encourage you to try some form of counseling along with your Sub - a therapist, meetings, anything that helps. Also, being on Sub does not in any way mean that 12-step groups don't have any value for you. And your medical conditions/medicines are your business, unless you want to disclose them. Don't feel ashamed in NA meetings because everyone has different views and your belief is just as valid as anyone else.

Keep doing good!

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 Post subject: spit or swallow
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:47 am 
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I have read that also. I think people that get the headaches are allergic to something in the suboxone. I have always swallowed it and have never had any problems. so i guess it really depends on the fact that it gives you headaches. plus i think once people read about this they almost are looking for a headache. so if you are not getting just dont even think about it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:41 pm 
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It's good to hear from you guys about the shame....I need to stay in the solution and take it a Day at a Time....I have put my life back together multiple times and I can do it again!! Having a very emotional day....I am out of town on business and also, my 20 year old son left for europe this morning to go study this semester. I was in the same city that he left from and was able to see him off!! Sitting in a hotel room reflecting on my situation and also thinking about what the future holds for me...I know from my past experience that things will be good it's just getting through this adjustment phase. This forum has given me a place to share so that there is some sense of honesty. this is day three on the subs and I will say that it is helping with all the physical stuff. Still working through the mental problems that go along with this addiciton....thanks for listening

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