It is currently Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:18 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 42 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:26 pm 
Okay....I have been at ~1mg of Suboxone for about a month, about 2 weeks ago having gone to divided doses (0.5mg in the a.m and 0.5mg in the p.m.) I had gone to divided doses due to beginning to feel kindy 'icky' in the late afternoon hours and because Dr Junig suggested this technique when arriving to doses this low. That has worked out just dandy.
A couple days ago, I began to notice that after my second dose of 0.5mg I would get a headache and just a 'cloudy' feeling. This is the type of symptoms I would get before over my past almost 12 months on Subs which for me, indicated the need to reduce my dose. So yesterday and today and I have shaved off a tiny piece of my second Sub dose for the day, bringing me down to approximately 0.9mg/day. I know I have to take the drops in even smaller increments now and I plan to stay at each drop for at least a couple of weeks before dropping again. At least that's the plan. So far I have not converted to liquid.....I may indeed find it necessary to do that eventually. But for now, I'm satisfied enough with my doses being approximations.
So far....the only thing I notice is that my legs are a little restless and achey when I awaken in the morning. About 20 minutes after taking my morning dose those symptoms are gone and I'm good to go. Mentally, psychologically, whatever, I feel good.....no cravings to speak of.....feeling stronger.....feeling more empowered and a bit more like the 'old' me.
I'm hopeful that this is going to work. But fully aware that should the need arise for whatever reason...."My somewhat informal and flexible Suboxone taper story" could change to "Oops....I need to stay on this a while longer." I am approaching the final stages with a very open mind. The only thing my mind is closed to is relapse to full agonist opiates!!
For those of you who care to.....keep wishing me luck! I'll just post if something changes or seems noteworthy! Of if anyone has questions or whatnot....shoot! Thanks!


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:12 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:50 pm
Posts: 128
Hey SMF,

That is exactly what I did when I got under 1 mg. Keep shaving off those little peices in the afternoon especially and only take what you need. Your brain will keep getting used to it.

Also, there will come a day when you won't even remember you need that morning dose to be "good to go" and that is when you're ready....in my opnion...to come off. I'm on day 8 with no sub....feeling good. A little "blah" but I had 0 withdrawals and feel good.

Keep up the slow taper...oh yeah...i also sometimes took 3 doses throughout the day...you may give that a shot. When I was around 1 mg I'd take .4mg or so in the Am, another .3 around 2 and then a tad more at night. I just needed to get through that mid day lull and a lot of the time I'd feel so good I woulnd't need the later dose and that would help me get down and down quicker.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:50 pm 
Thanks Hawker....I have appreciated your support and your excellent 'tips' on tapering and just your thoughts on the matter via your PMs and I appreciate it on this thread as well.
Funny thing happened yesterday.....I had quite a bit to do, starting with a fitness class/workout in the morning. I didn't get moving as early as I should have so was in a hurry when leaving the house. I forgot to dose. The previous day I had taken ~0.5mg in the morning and another ~0.4 in the evening. Okay, so I go on and have a pretty good workout. I remembered while I was at the gym that I forgot to dose and told myself I'd do it when I got home. I go home and shower and left to go to work for a few hours and......forgot to dose again! Then I realized that I really felt fine...certainly no sypmtoms to warrant going back home, so I decided to just forego the dose altogether. I had other things to do during the late afternoon and evening so I was busy all day. Even at bedtime, still no symptoms. That would have been 24 hours post last dose. Well, by that time, I'm just more curious than anything, so I decided to just go without the Sub until I felt I needed it.
I slept fine....except for some vivid dreams. I woke up feeling okay....not great, but not horrible by any means. I ended up going right around 36 hours without dosing, with my last dose being only ~0.5mg and it wasn't a nightmare! I don't know what I expected, but I guess I expected something more than that with my dose being this low for as long as it has been. I'm pretty sure that by 24-36 hours I would have only had a miniscule amount of buprenorphine still on board.
So this tells me a couple of things: This is some strong stuff if that tiny of a dose could keep me 'okay' for that long. And it makes me feel that there is definitely some form of 'healing' or whatever you want to call it going on within my brain that I was able to do this.
Anyway, that was my experience. Everyone is different and absorbs and metabolizes this medication differently, so what happened with me might be completely different for someone else. But I just thought it was interesting enough to share.
I know that exercise and staying busy will be key to finishing this taper up without too much distress too. Oh...I don't think I ever said why I eventually went ahead and dosed this morning. By around 10a.m., I was feeling pretty sluggish and achey and yawning a lot. I decided that was enough and as I have said, I'm in no hurry, so I went ahead and dosed with my 0.5mg for the morning. We'll see what happens this evening.


Top
  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:51 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:50 pm
Posts: 128
Nice! I found myself nodding through your whole post. I had some of those same type of days! I think waking up and working out makes such a huge difference. It's funny how you said you didn't know what you expected.... i think sometimes we have to get over that mindset of going "oh crap" i haven't taken anything! Once you et over a few of those humps and realize you're ok you start to realize the HEALING is happening! That's so awesome.

This stuff is powerful but every real study I've read says your brain is saturated between 2 mgs and 4 mgs...meaning every receptor is getting filled meaning they aren't being forced to heal. So you are down under 1 mg. That means that a huge amount of your receptors are open and healing or healed! Every time you lower the amount you take more open up...that is a fact. Soon they'll all be open...! take your time and let them heal and get back to normal as you go! Build on that day you had....that is a huge block you overcame. So pumped for you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:03 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:04 pm
Posts: 391
The one time that someone truly took some of my sub (hotel in Memphis-took 4-8mg). It wasn't until the 3rd morning before it hit......by day 4 ........I was having panic attacks and it took me over 4 hours to get to my Doctor's office due to panic attacks....and having to stop to go to the bathroom..but that was from 8 mg..I am really going to watch your post as you taper to see the differences..So far so good........keep posting.

Jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: way to go!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:51 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:29 pm
Posts: 119
Hi setmefree,

First of all, I just wanted to say a quick hello to reraise. I just posted in his thread that I had not seen him post in a couple of days and was wondering how he was feeling. I feel a little better to see a post from him, hoping that means the antibiotics are working and that he is feeling better.

setmefree - i apologize for talking to reraise on your thread!

Also I am so happy that you started this thread and that you are feeling better with your taper, and the split doses. You continue to be an inspiration to me, have been following your story and your taper since you started posting here, as I have mentioned several times in your threads.

That is so awesome that even after missing your morning dose that you were able to go on with your day and not experiencing any withdrawals. I am excited for you, so can only imagine how good you feel about this. it must be such an awesome feeling to know that your receptors are healing and not screaming to be filled with more Sub. I think the fact that you have no set end date and that your taper plan remains flexible really helps not to put any pressure on yourself to be done by a certain date.

It is also very comforting to hear about a successful taper. I think you have an awesome attitude and outlook on your recovery and once again I really wan to say what an inspiration you are.

Keep posting and updating your progress, it really helps me and I'm certain, many others out there that are also tapering their sub.

Take care, sincerely,
Ginger


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:36 am 
Thanks for the replies!
ReRaise....I think the hell you went through (I remember the post actually) was truly because you were forced to withdraw off a higher dose. It seems pretty straightforward, from everything I've come across at least, that if you 'cold turkey' off doses higher than 2mg or so a day, the withdrawals will be really bad. I don't think we'll find anyone who'd argue that fact. Hopefully you will never have to go through that again, as it was unfair and uncalled for in the first place!
Ginger....no need to apologize for talking to someone else on 'my' thread. I'm not all that forum savvy I guess, because I never have understood the whole thread 'ownership' thing anyway! lol!! Thank you for your words of support and encouragement.
And Hawker....I'm still looking at your experiences as one of my main examples of how to finish my taper in the best way possible....so again, thanks!

A quick update. I hit a bit of a rough patch shortly after my last post. I seriously don't know that it had all that much to do with my dose. It was just a rough few days, with some family issues and some moodiness on my part. I have to continually work on the issue that got me here to begin with, the biggest one of which being the resentments I allow to build up within me. There has been some of that going on with just feeling 'pulled' in too many directions, too many of the people I love 'need' something from me all the time and the feelings of not measuring up in regards to filling all those roles. I won't blather about it anymore. Suffice it to say, I hit a rough patch and have had to just chill out on focusing on dose and focus on working the other aspects of my recovery. So....I continue to take ~1mg/day in two doses. I have not shaved off any more little pieces, so I am taking approximately that 1mg/day, probably some days I'm getting less and some days I might be getting a tiny bit more than that. I don't care right now. I have to focus on the other stuff. I'll get back on track with the reductions when things smooth out. Usually for me....this is how it will go.....a week of funkiness, followed by a few weeks of feeling pretty good. Again, don't know how much is Sub related, how much his just my mood or otherwise. In any case.....no overt w/d symptoms, no sleep problems, not really even any outright PAWS symptoms as my motivation is not too bad at all. So yeah, I think I'm just in a funk!!
That's the update. My taper is on hold for a little bit. I'll let you know when I reduce again. Thanks again.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Thanks to everyone!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:13 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:31 pm
Posts: 10
I just wanted to say thank you for all the various scenarios outlined in this thread. I thought it was just me "failing" and have been having some pretty rough patches myself. I was able to drop from 16mg to 2mg twice a day, and every time I tried dropping 10% I could only make it through about nine days before I would get to where I was unable to even talk to anyone, answer the phone or anything! I thought I was flat out going crazy!

I DO have some very severe depression issues, anxiety disorders and PTSD issues, then I read where these severe mood swings are all part of the course, so my doc prescribed me an antidepressant in order to help with this. However he prescribed Prozac, and I am afraid to try a "new" antidepressant because the only one that didn't have all kinds of brain-death type effects was Effexor. I tried to call today to ask him to change it, so hopefully he will have done so.

But you guys sure did ease my mind in that I'm not the only one, and there ARE ways around it.

Thank you SO very much!

Humbly,

Vinny


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:42 pm 
Well, I wish I could come on and type that things are awesome and that I've been tapering away...but that would not be true. I've hit a bit of a wall here. I've stayed around 1mg/day, sometimes more, sometimes less...but essentially no real change in dosage overall. On my last update I mentioned that I was having some 'mood' issues, and my uncertainty that it was Sub related or dose related. I still am uncertain. All I know is that I had a huge wave of cravings hit me one day last week....the strongest I've had in a long, long time. I actually played it all out in my head....seeking a new doctor, complaining of pain, etc....I could almost feel the script in my hand, tasted the pills in my mouth. But....I had to play the scene out the rest of the way. What happens if this doctor pulls me up on the Rx database and sees I've been on Suboxone, what if I get 'caught' by my loved ones, what happens after those few potential pills are all gone....then what? So yes, truth is, I obsessed about it for an entire day. I wound up going home and taking more Suboxone, about another full 1mg and felt much better after that. Now, some of you may say that's "addict behavior" and you're entitled to your opinion. But I decided that it was NOT.....it was an addict in recovery behavior! My doctor's directions have always been to dose as needed and to taper as I am comfortable. So I did absolutely nothing wrong. I am an opiate addict. I am way below the ceiling level of buprenorphine. It is natural and to be expected that I will have moments like this. What I must do is learn how to deal with them. And for now, as I am still on Suboxone, that is one of my tools. The others failed me that day and I'm glad I still had medication to fall back on.
Without going into too much detail, lest I be accused of being "self-serving" or "self-absorbed".....I was hit with a great deal right prior to all of that. Someone very dear to me passed away unexpectedly and I have been extremely saddened. My older daughter (23) is quite ill and I am very distressed about that....She has come home to me for help and I am getting and giving her the help that I am able to give.....it is very draining. And then there are just all the other things that go along with running a marriage, household, motherhood, etc. I'm just not in a good place. I find that I feel sad a good deal of the time......I am quite possibly truly depressed at this point (I don't know for sure because I have never had that diagnosis and I've only experienced self-limiting situational periods of depression in my lifetime from which I have readily bounced back.) In any case.....it's a hard time. I do believe that being on a very low dose of bup plays a role in all this. My receptors are no longer being constantly flooded with opiate (agonist or otherwise) and I am having to learn to face my feelings much closer to full-on than I have in a long time.
So my taper is still on hold. I am okay. The memorial for this dear person was today and it was a lovely goodbye. This was a person who truly made a difference in this world....a big difference to many people.....a rare individual. It has had me thinking about the difference that I used to make in people's lives and that I threw it all away....and that in and of itself is depressing, right?!
But I will move on through this....one day at a time. The cravings have receded almost completely. I'm on a little bit more steady ground than I was a few days ago. I know I will be all right. I just have to give it time and I know I'm in no position to make further reductions right now. And that's okay.
I don't know if this post means anything to anyone or not. But just in case.....if you're tapering and struggling.....you're not alone! For those of you who believe, I appreciate prayer. For those of you who don't, perhaps you can just think positive thoughts for me.
That's the update for now. Thanks for reading.


Top
  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:33 pm 
Happy to report that I have had a nice reprieve from the depressed mood and cravings I posted about a couple of days ago. I have made no significant dose adjustments....have not felt the need to add additional doses since that bad wave of cravings hit just over a week ago. So I am still sitting at 1mg or a little less each day. I have ramped up my other recovery practices....hitting the gym and getting into some fairly intense yoga/meditation classes and using my support systems as I should (confiding in loved ones and utilizing spiritual practices which work for me.) These things do work if we work them!!
I've had no more obsessive thoughts of using, thank God! I know that I cannot. If nothing else, the fear of what would happen if were to try that route again, is an excellent deterrent!! So I know that I know that I know that is NOT an option! As with most everything in life....the only way out is through. And I am going through. I am confident that what I am experiencing is nothing unusual. I'm glad to be feeling a renewed sense of confidence and strength. I got through another rough patch and did not use drugs other than buprenophine to survive it and that, to me, is progress.
So I will continue on.....If this current feeling of 'stabilization' continues for another week or so, I may attempt another small reduction at that point. "No hurry," is what I keep telling myself, "this is not a sprint, it's a marathon."


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:12 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:29 pm
Posts: 119
Hi smf,

I just noticed this update on yout taper. I'm sorry to hear that you were struggling last week, but was also good to hear that you got through it and are now doing better. I think you handled everything well while you were struggling, I can only imagine how diffiuclt that must have been. Having to take a little extra bupe was certainly not a bad thing and I'm glad you didn't beat yourself up about it. Bupe is an excellent tool for those days when everything else seems to fail us. You had a lot of stress in your life, and I think it's pretty normal or natural for anyone with addiction problems to 'think' about using to help us get through it. Playing the tape through to the end is also how I get through those days. I know using will not help anything and just make everything worse in the end.

I am really happy to hear that you are feeling a lot better and back on track. We are often tested when stressed and I am glad that you posted about it. It really helps people like me to see that it's okay to get those cravings and as long as we don't act on them, we will get through them, and will be okay.

Have a good weekend,
Ginger


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:23 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:03 pm
Posts: 1543
I'm hoping that the FDA approval process goes well for Probuphine, a long-term injectable form of buprenorphine. One major problem with tapering is having access to something that will stop the misery-- just when the misery gets, well, miserable. I think it would be MUCH easier to get a shot that dissolves over a month's time, and then rid the house of buprenorphine and use clonidine as needed, as the buprenorphine in one's system slowly disappears. It would also allow the person to keep the focus away from buprenorphine entirely, if there is no need to break pills into tiny pieces every morning.

The final part of the equation would be a medication that reduces w/d more effectively than what is available now. Look for the CCK derivatives to come on the scene.. one old such drug was Proglumide, an old antacid that supposedly reduces opioid withdrawal.

By the way, I found a source for Proglumide, although I take no resonsibility for the quality of the medication-- it is distributed by a company in Pakistan, and sold through this pharmacy . Do NOT take the medication on my recommendation; I have read about it on bluelight.ru and other sites but do not have knowledge about the pharmacy or the distributor other than what I read on the site. I HAVE read about CCK analogs being studied for opioid withdrawal through calls for studies at NIDA and elsewhere, but know nothing about the safety of Proglumide. Caveat Emptor!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:06 pm 
Well, here we are at the end of July....time for an update. I have continued with the ~1mg/day dosing, with somedays probably getting a bit more and somedays perhaps a little bit less as I'm still just using pieces of 8mg tabs. My struggle with the dysphoria and low motivation, so reminiscent of PAWS, has persisted. I'll have some 'up' days thrown in now and then, but still kind of the whole 'dark cloud' lingering kind of feelings prevail. I have thought for a long time that because of the long-term use of opiates (including buprenorphine) that my brain chemistry has been altered significantly. I am more and more convinced that because of that, no matter how slow a taper I continue on, I am in for a battle with my moods and motivation. I have wondered in the past if a course of antidepressant might be a good idea for those of us who are tapering off bupe. I have certainly read of it being done this way. I have been resistant simply because of not wanting to introduce yet another drug into my body. You see, before my addiction, it took something quite severe to even talk me into accepting a Tylenol, believe it or not! I just was not a drug taker and rarely even drank alcohol, never used any illegal drugs or anything like that. So I guess it's just part of who I am....the whole not needing drugs thing. Well, of course, my opiate addiction sadly changed all that! I am no longer that person. I'd like to have her back someday, but it won't be today!
So with a heavy heart and with the encouragement of my husband, I went and saw my doctor and told him what was going on, filled out the little depression 'quiz' and was told that I definitely needed a course of antidepressants. So I started Lexapro a little over a week ago. So far, so good. No side effects or problems. And I think I might even be able to feel the beginnings of an improvent in mood.
My hope is that once stabilized on the AD, I will be able to get back to tapering and will not encounter these horrible waves of depression and low motivation. So I will stick at my current dose probably another 2 weeks and then try again to reduce and see how it goes. The hope being that the AD will sort of bridge the gap as the opiates leave my system, thereby reducing the PAWS sypmtoms that I am all too familiar with. I have heard of this being done before, but would love to hear from anyone else who has heard of this method or tried it and what sort of success they had with it. I just know that in order to eventually pull this off, I've got to be in a place where depression doesn't kill my chance for success.
Thank you to those who are following my long drawn out taper and especially to those of you how might be pulling for me, praying for me, sending positive thoughts my way, etc! Let me know what you guys think.


Top
  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:16 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:29 pm
Posts: 119
Hi setmefree,

Thanks for the update of your taper. I am sorry tohear that you have been struggling with depression and lack of motivation. I have struggled with depression most of my adult life and have been on and off several different AD's. Celexa had the least amount of side effects but Paxil worked the best for me. Unfortunately, none of them worked for me longer than a year, no matter what dose I was on, so I had to keep trying something new. I did not suffer from any side effects getting on or off them, probably because I did not know there could be any problems. Sometimes too much information is not good when trying a new drug or trying to get off. I know I got really scared reading all the horror stories about getting off Sub, and sometimes wish I didn't read those stories. Would be interesting to have tried to get off Sub, NOT knowing there could be difficulties. I once got off methadone, under the same circumstances, just did not know about any of the problems I have since heard of. It was not easy, and I jumped from 80 mg but not even close to the horror stories I have heard about.

I am NOT on an AD now, mostly because Sub seems to be working for my depression issues, and I also wanted to make sure I was stable on Sub BEFORE I started an AD, just so I was very well aware of what side effects were caused by what drug. I have started taking a lot of vitamins and amino acids and a mixture called Sunshine in a Bottle,full of Vit D, lots of amino acids, l-tyrosine, and 5htp. This cannot be mixed with an AD, so I thought I would try this first. Should I still require an AD, especially when I start to taper, I will. I can understand your hesitance if you are not used to taking AD's but I have heard of some really good results and less withdrawal issues when getting to low doses. I do admit, I do not know a lot about Lexapro so will not give any pros or cons about the AD.

If you are already noticing some benefits and NO side effects, I would think that is a good thing. I really hope that it helps you as much as AD's helped me when I needed them and have at times saved my life,literally.

From all the symptoms that you mentioned, I think you made a very wise decision to try an AD. If you are not experiencing side effects, and already some benefits, I believe you have made the right choice and I know you did not make this decision lightly. I honestly think, if they work as well for you as they have for me,that you will be better equipped to continue with your taper without the added symptoms you have been experiencing.

I wish you all the best for the rest of your taper. As you know, I have been following your recovery and taper since you started posting here. I am so happy that you have not set a deadline for yourself and left your decision open should you decided you need to stay at a low dose for an extended period of time. From everything I have read about successful taper plans, it is these plans that seem to do well, without disappointing yourself for not hitting a goal by a certain date. I am very
confident that this will be the boost you need to continue with your taper. It WILL help you get to that place where depression doesn't kill your chance for success.

All the best to you as you continue your taper and I honestly hope Lexapro is what you needed to help you as you move to your next step.
Ginger


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:59 pm 
Thanks for the encouragement Ginger and to anyone else who has been trying to follow along with me here!
It's time for an update. I have done well with the Lexapro. It's been about 4 weeks on it now and I can definitely see a leveling off of my moods. It's nothing miraculous or anything, it just seems I'm not hitting those real low points anymore. My husband says that he has noted a difference as well, so I guess that's another positive sign that the Lexapro is doing some good.
I have remained on the ~1mg of Suboxone per day for around three months now. I can't believe it's been that long! Oh well....I always said 'it takes as long as it takes.' School has started for my youngest child and the other one living at home is much more stable, so I think it's as good a time as any to attempt another decrease. What I've decided to try is dosing at 1mg one day, alternating with 0.5mg the next day, so essentially dropping to the equivalent of 0.75mg/day. I had gone back to dosing once a day with the 1mg a while back because it was easier and it didn't seem to make that much of a difference in how I felt.
Again, I don't have a set plan on how long I'll stay at this dose, but I'm still not in a big hurry to finish, so we shall see. Probably will depend on how I feel. If I run into difficulty with this method, I will switch it to just shaving a little off the 1mg piece and take that every day for a while.
I'm hoping that because I've waited so long to decrease again, that it will not be too difficult. But I will be honest with everyone in letting you know how it goes....the good, the bad or the ugly!
Thanks!


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:25 am 
This is my fifth day of alternating 1mg with 0.5mg. The only thing I've really noticed is that I have a runny nose (typical early withdrawal symptom for me) and a little bit of restlessness. I'm sleeping, but I'm waking up several times during the night. I have been taking Tylenol PM and I think it does help. Also I've noticed some restless leg stuff. Nothing like full-agonist withdrawal, but just this weird need to move my legs around, even when I'm awake.....like while sitting here typing I'm wiggling my feet around and shaking my legs....weird! I am pretty convinced that this is the beginning of buprenorphine withdrawal as I certainly can't make my nose run! Mentally, not too bad....no major anxiety or depression, so maybe the Lexapro is helping me there. I realize that I'm very early on in this decrease. But I think because I have been so far under the "ceiling dose" for so long that I may feel the drops more quickly than I would otherwise. I know there is a discussion on another thread about it taking about 3 days to feel dose decreases, and that was pretty much the rule for me as well anytime before when I made decreases from anything above 2mg/day or so.
I will probably just keep dosing this way for at least another week, maybe two, before attempting to decrease again. Depending on how it goes, I'd like to be done by the end of the year. I know.....I'm going insanely slow! But I'm okay with it. My doctor pretty much released me a while back saying just to call if I decided not to continue tapering. I asked him about comfort meds for withdrawal and he said, "You shouldn't need anything." Alrighty then! I'm not sure I believe him on that one, but he's obviously not gonna give me anything! So I figure I've got to do this really slowly, especially with no comfort meds other than OTC stuff. My doctor said he didn't need anything, so I guess he figures nobody else should either! We shall see!


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:02 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 879
Location: Wisconsin
Two quick thoughts:

1. If my math is correct you have reduced your dose by 25%. That might be a bit much when you're only at 1 mg. If you can handle it - that's great. From what I have read, however, 10% seems to be the recommendation when you are as low as you are at. Not saying you need to bump it up - just suggesting that you keep it in mind if the symptoms get to be too much.

2. By "comfort meds" I'll bet you a dollar your doctor was thinking Valium or something like that. I have to wonder if you asked for clonidine; he would give it to you. I mean, what's the down-side? You're not about to get addicted to it or anything. Just something else to keep in mind if you run into any struggles.

Thanks for continuing to post how your taper is going. I seem to learn something from pretty much everyone that takes the time to post their experiences here. I have no current plans to go below 4mg (I'm currently at 8) at this point but someday figure I too will be looking to at least try to stop Suboxone and reading all of these first hand accounts is very helpful.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:41 pm 
Thank you donh. I always appreciate your feedback. I do realize that I have made a pretty big reduction here. I just wanted to give it a shot, thinking that perhaps I'd be able to handle it since I've been on 1mg/day for such a long time. That may, in fact, not have a thing in the world to do with how one handles dose reductions, but that was kind of my logic. That and the fact that my 1mg/day dosing has been a little 'loose.' What I had been working with was several 8mg Sub tablets broken into approximately 1mg pieces. Over the last 2-3 weeks I had been down to the final pieces of that batch, many of which were on the smaller side, so there's a good chance that on many days I have been getting a bit less than 1mg/day. I've started this time with a new batch of pieces......I've got a container of pieces that are real close to 1mg and another container of pieces that are 0.5mg. The 0.5mg were harder to get exactly right because they're so dang small!
I totally hear you though on the possibility that I might be making too big of a drop, and I'm prepared to back off if it gets difficult. Plan B will be to set aside the 0.5mg pieces for a later date and use only the 1mg's, shaving a tiny bit off each piece every day taking me to more like the 10% you and many others have recommended. I'll give it another few days and should by then have a pretty good idea if Plan A is going to work out okay or not.
As far as the comfort meds, I actually did directly state "like clonidine and maybe something to help with sleep." I have no idea why he would have a problem with that, especially since way back late last year he had no problem writing me for 20 cyclobenzaprine for some back pain I was having. I don't know! He has told me all along that when he discontinued Sub, he simply got himself down to pieces no larger than 2mg, started skipping days here and there, then consistently skipping days, then dosing only as needed until he realized it had been weeks since he had required a dose and he "figured he was done." He insisted he needed no meds to get throught it all and sent me on my way. I hope I am as fortunate! Then again he also told me at the beginning of treatment that I would be able to "be in a room full of opiates of any kind and not be interested in them in the slightest" while on Suboxone. Well, I disappointingly found that not to quite be the reality of it! The truth is that I have seldom been 100% craving free and I certainly wouldn't trust myself 100% in a room full of opiates! So we'll see how well my experience in tapering and discontinuing match up with his!
Thanks again donh! I'll keep posting about how it goes.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Stumbles and setbacks
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:01 am 
Hello all. I'll try to be brief (for once) and give a quick update to my (NON)taper.
Following up on my last decrease.....I had gone to 1mg/day alternating with 0.5mg/day every other day about a month ago. I did not stick to that plan very well after about the first week. I was doing more like 0.5mg every third or fourth day, but certainly not every other day. I can't even really tell you why at this point. I think it's been more psychological than anything physical. In other words, no horrible w/d symptoms, just mental stuff-some anxiety and obsessive thoughts of using, even had dreams of using. I didn't feel too bad about not entirely reaching the goal of every other day because I knew that was a rather extreme reduction at this low of a dose.
Then came the bigger problem. My dad had surgery last week....outpatient shoulder (rotator cuff.) I'm sure you can all see what's coming here. My parents are in their seventies and Mom has a bad back so I stepped in to help take care of Dad. I visit my parents often (they live close by) and I always have to watch myself and often have pretty intense thoughts of swiping some of Mom's pain meds (disgusting, I know.) Well, with the surgery and all, I have been staying at their house a lot more, spending most nights there over the last 5 days. Going into this, I knew with Mom's meds plus Dad needing post op pain meds, it was going to be challenging for me.
So what did I do? The feeling of impending relapse was so strong that in the 2-3 days prior to his surgery I decided to bump myself back up over the ceiling on my Sub dose. I took 4-6mg/day for 4 days. Then dropped back to 2-3mg/day for a couple of days and today I'm going to try taking only 2mg. What does this mean for my long-term success in ever getting off Sub? I'm not sure. Maybe some of you will offer your opinions. Yesterday I cut myself back to 3mg and so far today, I have taken 2mg. I'm going to try to get back to 1mg/day over the next few days. I'm curious to see how I do with this. I wonder if it will be difficult at all to go right back down after only bumping up for a week or so.
I don't know. I just felt like I had to do something! I cannot be around opiates at this low of a dose of Suboxone. Will I ever be able to manage without it? Shit! Why can I not get beyond the desire to use that crap?! Why can I not just accept that pain meds are poison to me?! I wish so much I could erase the memory of how they made me feel.
So that's that. I shouldn't be needed to spend the night over with Mom and Dad anymore, so my time with them will be more like normal......everyone awake and them aware of my movements around the house. They know of my addiction and have been very supportive. They know I'm on Sub and have almost too much confidence in it's ability to keep me straight. I guess I should tell them I'm tapering and they need to be even more vigilent about keeps the Rxs out my sight. That is so hard though. They need my help and I love helping. I filled his Rx for him and gave him his doses and didn't swipe any, but I know it's because I bumped my Sub. I don't know if I could have done it if I hadn't.
I'll quit blathering. Maybe someday I'll be able to post a 'success' story of tapering instead of more procrastination and excuses! Thanks for reading.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:48 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 879
Location: Wisconsin
Thank you for such an honest post. I'm sure that was not easy for you. At least I know it would not have been easy for me. I have no problem telling everyone how great I am doing in my recovery but if I had problems, I don't know that I'd be nearly as honest and forthcoming as you are. I am curious, did you bump up your dose because then mentally you would not feel like you needed the pain pills - or did you bump up your dose because you knew that would prevent the pills from having any effect and therefore you would not be nearly as driven to take them? OR is it both? Also, did you "feel" the increased Sub dose? Did you feel tired, or "high" or anything different by tippling your dose? On the other side, are you feeling any form of withdrawal as you taper down? Do I ask too many questions? LOL

I have to tell you that this is my exact fear. I just had my three month appointment with my Sub doc and had an interesting thought. The week prior I had come in contact with Vicodin and Percocet. It was a friend who has been prescribed it for some shoulder problems he is going through. He did not hide the fact and actually made some "oxy" jokes as did the other 40-60 year old people I was with. None know of my issues. Anyhow, it was not until I was speaking with my doc the following week that it dawned on me that I didn't even think about the pills at all. It was a total non-issue to me. A year ago, I would have obsessed with getting some - whether by asking him or "other methods". Here is my point, if I was down to 1 mg, like you are, would it have been the same for me? In other words, how much of the fact that I didn't care or think about the pills is related to my 8 mg of Suboxone and how much is related to my 11 month and counting recovery? Looking farther down the road, I too will be the person to take care of my parents. What will I do when they are on narcotics and I'm around them? I have talked before about taking care of my grandparents for years - both of whom were on narcotics that they did not take. Guess who did? That was five plus years ago now but for many years that was my source of opiates.

Anyhow, this is what we as addicts have to deal with. This is a huge issue, and I really thank you for being so honest about it. It is part of our recovery to have to go through this sort of thing. You should be congratulated for going the Sub route rather than chancing it with actual full opiates. I hope you'll continue to talk about what you are going through with your taper. It really is helpful.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 42 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group