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 Post subject: Here I am!!!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:30 pm 
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I I typed you a long post however I just realized that it is not here & I dont know what happened to it.

Well, I just want you to know that I am now completely fine. All of the side effects came & went. My hands are perfect & I did not even adjust my dose. I put up with the pain & figured I would have to live like that until I felt that I was ready to come off of this med as it is not an option now. It was awful kneeling & then trying to stand up also. I felt awful in the mornings it was scary. now I am myself again minus the pain killers. So, dont worry. I'd say since you have the EXACT symptoms I had, that you are going to turn out fine also. Do not worry, just hang in there & they will go away in a few weeks, could turn out longer & you MIGHT have to lower your dosage. Depends on what you can handle, it wont get worse than it is if it has een this way for a while.

Please keep me posted!
D


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:59 am 
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I absolutely believe your symptoms are related to the Sub. Why? Well, the same thing happened to me. My hands kept feeling like I'd slept on them....but I finally realized I couldn't sleep on both at once! Eventually it happened in my legs. I ended up at the neurologists and was given a script for carpal tunnel braces, which made no difference at all. Then, I was tested for Lupus, MS, rheumatoid arthritis, etc. It was blood work, an MRI, nerve conduction tests on my hands, x-rays of my neck. in the end, nothing showed up and I asked my Sub doc and he said it was not the Sub. However, when I weaned significantly down on the Sub the entire problem vanished. Also, during that period two of my friends on Sub went thru the exact same thing and had nothing wrong. It was the Sub...


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 Post subject: WHY????
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:17 pm 
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Why is it then that we all had these same crazy symptoms yet the doctor says it is in our head or that it is not from the RX???? I just dont get it. I'm also dying to know what on earth in this rx would cause these kinds of symptoms.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:29 pm 
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I don't know why these things would happen. I was insanely relieved to find out it wasn't some horrible other disease. I forgot to mention that I go to Dual Recovery Meetings and we discuss medication all the time and I've heard at least ten-fifteen other stories from people on Suboxone, saying "I am really scared. I'm having very strange things happening with my hands...pins and needles....I think I might have carpal tunnel or MS!" None of the people I've met in meetings has ever reported that they discovered they did have some yucky other disease. My doctor, like the other doctors I've heard about, insisted it was not from the Suboxone. I've told him I absolutely believe now that it is, and he gives me a blank stare or chuckles at my silliness. I feel like he should be reporting it to somewhere. At least if it was recorded that people get these things after going on Suboxone, then when they go down it all disappears, then others who get similar symptoms would not freak out as much. I've also noticed that over the long term (personally, I've been on since 2005), Suboxone tends to decrease emotions and kinda make people unmotivated. I know when I got down to the lower end, as in 4 mg or less, my emotions came back and I cried a lot and laughed a lot, etc. I am not happy with the medical establishment for putting certain people on this drug. I was taking pain killers on and off. I had chronic headaches after a severe head injury, so I'd get a script and go thru it and it wasn't automatically refilled, so I always had to detox for two or three days. I didn't like that but two or three days now sounds like nothing. My pain doctor said I needed to start serious pain meds because he was certain I would always have pain. However, I'd heard the horror stories and wouldn't put Morphine patches on or take Oxy. I called a doc on the Sub registry, and told the secretary how long my latest stint was...I think it had been 1.5 months since I last detoxed, and she said I was a perfect candidate and I went in and only heard how wonderful Suboxone was and that when u detoxed, u would have NO withdrawals. What of load of...you know! My point is that I was taking Vicodin...if I knew how hard this would be, I would have decided against it, just like I did the patches. My best friend is on this and she's been certain for years that since she "is tough" and has detoxed off horrible opiates many times, she could handle this. However, I recently saw her lose her mind for two full months going from 6-4 mg. She is blown away and sorry she painted me as so weak. It's not the physical stuff, it's the mental stuff. I know Sub saves many lives and many people should be on it if it can break their cycle and get them away from the needles and terrible stuff like that. I just believe people deserve to be informed first and doctors need to learn the truth about how hard detox is and should maybe not hand it out so fast. Dr. Junig is the exception..not the rule as far as Sub doctors go....He wouldn't have put me on Suboxone..pretty sure about that!


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 Post subject: Well.....
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:43 am 
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I think Dr. J doesnt think that the side effects you, myself & others have had with the hands & aching joints, etc is actually a side effect either!!! My personal dr. said he has seen people get off the stuff without any issues that were on 32 mgs or higher. I think slow, & VERY steady is the only way to go. My emotions are EXTREMELY calm now that I am on this. I have ALWAYS had issues with depression & since I have taken this, I have not had even a day of depression. I feel of totally steady all the time & what a difference that has made in my life. I still feel feelings, I still cry a lot, I have a lot of reasons to cry too. Sadness is one thing. Depression is totally a different animal. I do not feel that dark, desperate, lonely, helpless, hopeless, disgusting feeling of depression ever now. That alone may keep me on this med till death do I part. Even wayyyyy prior to drug addiction I suffered something awful with depression so it was not a result of narcotics. I got on narcotics cuz I had out of control, sometimes suicidal pain from a condition called endometriosis. Oxycontin was the only med that worked, percocet prior to that. When I was on the narcotics, I did not feel a stitch of depression either, soooo, who on EARTH would choose depression? It was not the answer of course as the narotics only worked for so long & then I had to incrase the dose, & so on & so on. I, personally, wanted nothing whatsoever to do with su oxone at ALL. My ex went on it & he no longer had cravings. I still did not want it. Then he kept mentioning that he did not feel depressed either (he also suffered from depression, not as much as me though). I kept asking him if his depression was still gone & he kept telling me yes.

Finally, I just got desperate. I was snorting 2 80's a day. One day I realized that it was time to start taking more than that as that dose was no longer "working". I decided that enough was enough. I detoxed, & stayed that way for a while. The depression came fast & furious of course, it never went away. I started getting to a real dark place that I had never felt, EVER. I had two choices, either start the oxy again or try this rx. I tried it. It made me tired for like two months. I had a million side effects, I did not feel depressed for the first time in my life since i was fifteen years old (42 now). I could not imagine that feeling going away ever. I had taken every antidepressant known to man, sometimes a couple rx'd at a time. nothing completely took it away like this did.

I have two little girls who have no one except for me. no uncles, aunts, cousins, grandparents, no one at all. I chose to put them on this earth & I felt it was up to me to give them the most out of life. I dont like that I have to take this, I'll tell you though, we are all headed in such a more positive direction.

Sorry, dont know how I got on that rampage. I do think it is going to e VERY hard getting off of this. It scares me to even think of it. I try not to. If I do decide to go off of it, I will taper so slowly it will take a year if that is what I hve to do to get off. I just dont know if I want to cuz of of the relief from depression.

Good luck to you.
D


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:07 am 
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Just my two cents....My husband and I are both on suboxone and we, in the beginning and sometimes still, wake up with extraordinarily stiff joints. It's mostly in the knuckles, ankles, wrists, knees. Too, our hands are far more prone to falling asleep, quite painfully so, now than they were before beginning this treatment. Neither he nor myself are on any other medications and this was not an issue before beginning suboxone which we began at the same time. (There's power in numbers. Lol.) I don't see how this could NOT be a side effect of suboxone considering the amount of people that have experienced it. As said before though there could be some kind of predisposition or underlying matter that we all have that makes us susceptible or more so to this specific side effect.


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 Post subject: So...that's WHAT it is!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:11 pm 
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Hello. I've been lurking here for a few months. Finally, felt compelled to POST! My induction was in July 2009. My hands have been going to SLEEP at night as well, primarily my left one! (I'm a lefty.) I went to an orthopedic HAND specialist, after having seen my GP. The ortho Dr. said it's my ulnar nerve....GP said probably carpal tunnel. Hubby said I was sleeping on my hands too, BUT...I said I've BEEN AWAKE for TWO hours freaking out about it! I have NOT been laying on them!
I'm very grateful for this forum. Thanks to all......Happy trails...... :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Yeah-1,2,3 more things..
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:10 pm 
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I have SEVERE pain in my elbow when I rake, stir things, (while cooking, mixing choc. chips into cookie dough, etc.) sweep, vacuum, scrub out the bath tub...... YOU name it. The Dr said to "take it easy." I HAVE, and everytime I THINK it's better, I go ahead w my activities of DAILY living & the pain flares up again. I've read that wrapping a TOWEL around the arm while sleeping keeps it straight.....but admit I haven't gone to that extreme yet. I DID purchase an elbow brace-not the strap-Dr said that would make it WORSE. I wear a carpal tunnel brace to BED, as the numbness/tingling is MUCH worse at night. I KNOW I grab the covers, curl my hands up snug under my chin just before going to Sleepytown. I've made a conscience effort to STOP that, & the "brace" will not ALLOW it....
I take the Advil gel caps for the pain, it DOES help......I'm just TIRED of popping pills! I have NOT gone forward w/ the nerve conduction study. (Insurance sucks!)
I too think it more than consequence that WE are having this type of problem. I was a long time Norco (massive hydrocodone addict) for nearly TEN years. It started out w/ neuralgia.......SEVERE lower back pain. At times, I was unable to move. I was sent to a pain mgnt. Dr. that rotated narcotics on me q 3 months so that I wouldn't become addicted....Ha! Between fentanyl patches, oxys....& norco I decided Norco was the lesser of the 3 evils. I was wrong. They're EQUALLY addictive. I finally owned up to the fact that I AM an addfict. (I KNEW it for a LONG time....) I went to work everyday, was never arrested.......by the grace of God! I learned I was NO different than the addict laying on the street, the ONLY difference was that I have a home & a job. Period. I started attending 12 step meetings. I prefer AA...personally. I find the thought of 20 drunks in a room TOGETHER NOT trying to talk over one another truly amazing! I attend a "sub only" group headed by a counselor; also a recovering opiate addict.... and I LOVE group nights. I'm not much of a drinker at all. Maybe a glass of wine every now & then w/ hubby.....smoked weed since I was just a kid-16.
Fast forward to now- I'm a 48 yr old wife, mother of 2 adult children that truly ARE wonderful. I'm trying to find my way BACK....I know it's gonna be one helluva a journey, but.....it's so nice to NOT be counting pills ten times a day, running out, being dopesick, being high, not being high.........not wasting time, money & effort scoring.....I do NOT have any cravings, thoughts, anything. I'm currently taking 24 mg suboxone q day. I'm going to tell my Dr. I think I'll be fine w/ 16 or 20 mg next visit........
Again, I thank you ALL for posting here. This is a wonderful forum. Thanks to Dr Junig for caring SO much....
and to all of you that post your ES&H here. For that, I'm grateful. Thanks all. [font=Courier New] [/font] [b]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:25 pm 
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I just want to say again, to everyone with joint & muscle pain, go to the bookstore and get The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook. I kid you not, this book is amazing.

_________________
You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

-Jack Kornfield


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:29 pm 
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Thanks DQ! Will do. It is probably beneficial for many other things as well, I'm assuming.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:55 pm 
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I can totally relate to your symptoms – I too have developed sore, arthritic-feeling joints (particularly in my hands) since starting on Suboxone. I have this symptom, along with several other side-effects (hot flashes, hypnic jerks, bizarre dreams, etc.) that aren’t ‘officially’ recognized according to my doctor as being associated w/ Suboxone, but which seem to commonly pop up on the online forums for Suboxone users that I’ve looked at. Of course, all of these symptoms could be just popping up by coincidence, but at a certain point I think you have to trust your own gut instincts about which effects are from the Suboxone and which are not. As a long-time drug user, I think I have some experience with discerning the effects of drugs, and I’m almost positive that this sore joints issue is an effect of the Suboxone.

On balance, I’m still ok with the fact that I’m on the Sub – it has had the desired effects of keeping me away from my drug of choice, and has some effectiveness as an antidepressant for me as well, but the side effects are a major drawback.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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