It is currently Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:00 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:43 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:57 pm
Posts: 68
My son has not officially started a Suboxone program. He does take a smaller dose three or four times a week. I doubt his sleep issue is related to the Suboxone but what I am hoping is that his sleep will improve once he starts taking it full time under a doctors care. His sleep is such a huge problem and stumbling block to him getting better. He is up all night long and consequently he sleeps a good part of the day. He has tried to break this cycle by forcing himself to stay up during the day and trying to sleep at night but has not had a lot of luck with this.

I have read up on P.A.W.S. and understand that this is all part of that but is there anything he can do to help this situation? It is really bad.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:41 pm 
Sleep was real tough for me until I started Suboxone. I was lucky to get a couple hours at a time. It was horrible. My mind would be filled with obsessive thoughts, my legs would not be still, I was so uncomfortable physically as well.....sleep would just not come. At that time, I was under a lot of dictums from the licensing board that held my career in their hands. I was not allowed to take anything other than Tylenol or Advil or Aleve, therefore I wasn't able to even take benadryl or Tylenol PM to try to help me sleep. It sucked!! Keep in mind that this was the time period when I was still in acute withdrawals which I felt went on for a few weeks, though lessening somewhat with each passing day. I'm sure your son is miserable. I remember people in NA and others telling me "lack of sleep never killed anyone" and stuff like that. But I personally believe sleep is imperative to healing. I remember feeling like if I could just get some sleep, some relief from the 24/7 misery I was in, that I would feel so much better. It seems almost cruel to not be able to have some sort of sleep aid. I realize that the things we sometimes use for sleep can be abused and that is definitely an issue, but the poor kid needs some rest. He's tryiing to get it together and get some further treatment for his addiction....he deserves the chance to get some sleep.
Have you tried something like Tylenol PM or just plain old Benedryl? Some people feel like melatonin is helpful. Or perhaps just the ole warm milk trick and a book? Make sure he's got everything shut down as far as t.v., computer, video games, anything that is stimulating. I also think it would be a good idea for him to go the gym or the Y or wherever and get some exercise each day. There's nothing like a good workout/breaking a sweat to help not only with the sleep issue but with his recovery in general. Then maybe a hot bath or shower would be relaxing before bedtime. I know all this sounds kind of lame, but maybe worth a try. I really think once he gets on a regular schedule with Suboxone and gets his dose lined out the issue will resolve itself. I hope so.
Hang in there.....you're moving forward.....it's going to take some time.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:39 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 879
Location: Wisconsin
"I was not allowed to take anything other than Tylenol or Advil or Aleve, therefore I wasn't able to even take benadryl or Tylenol PM"

I can't tell you how mad reading this makes me. How in the hell do they get to dictate that you cannot take a 100000% legal, over-the-counter, substance? On what planet do these people live? How in the hell are you supposed to get better? And what on earth do they think they are going to accomplish by forbidding over-the-counter medications? It makes as much sense as not along the pilot of an airplane to take a medication like Prozak. Oh, by all means, let's keep him off such a medication and therefore not able to do his job as well as he otherwise would. Let's keep you off benadryl and suffer from allergies or anything else it might treat. Things like this just drive me nuts. Perhaps it's just the type of person I am but why in the hell government can't stay out of our lives - and I view a board like this just like I view government - is way beyond me. It's almost like setting you up to fail. Somehow these people get to decide that they can make different rules just because we have the disease of addiction.


Sorry, I just had to get that off my check. Is it any wonder we have a 90% relapse rate out there?


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:32 am 
Offline
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster

Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:58 pm
Posts: 322
donh , I ditto everything in your post


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:50 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:29 am
Posts: 246
Hi Madyson -

I read both posts. I understand your frustration at people's responses. HONESTLY, many of us limit our circle of discussion for that very reason. We decide to TEAM up with our doctors, and other trustworthy people for recovery. I am sorry you have to deal with that. This is a disease, and people who don't see it that way - it's easy to play 'drug for drug' as if they would just do 'something' everything would return to pre-opiate days. You are living proof with your son - that is JUST NOT THE CASE.

As for sleep! YES! I had the same problem. It's my #1 issue with withdrawal, and PAWS. For me, personally, the last time I made it a few weeks (the worst of the intense withdrawals were over) - I still could not sleep well/mucht night. I believe it pressed me to use again. I was exhausted, and in my own little world - a percocet was the way back to normal.

I really think you will find that when you are under a doctor's care, on suboxone consistently (every day) - he can tackle those problems. If there are other issues involved - then you'll have ruled out withdrawal, and opiate PAWS.

Just my $.02. I lived through the pain - but to live without sleep and almost no motivation - it was horrible. When do you go to the suboxdoctor (maybe you aren't even set up yet?).

ALL THE BEST and thanks for posting!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: You want advice??
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:13 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 164
You can help the situation by making the bedroom off limits during the daytime. It is YOUR house isn't it? It's time for this "20 yo" get up and out of bed and stand on his own two feet. If you want a son who is going to be a dependent the rest of his life... then continue to enable him with food, clothing, shelter, and now... suboxone medication??? It doesn't make sense to me for a parent to allow a 20 yo son to sleep all day and not get out and find a job. Where is his motivation to do anything for himself when you provide everything he wants/needs. It's time for him to grow up and for you to provide some "tough love". This kid needs to hit bottom in order to get the motivation to truly recover. He isn't going to get there sleeping all day and manipulating you....

You said the father is against this treatment and I would be too... that is... if I was going to be paying for it while my son did nothing to help his own situation. Make him get a job and pay for this himself... it will be a headstart on the reality of adulthood.

It's one thing to be sick and take the responsibilty for getting well... and another to let someone else take the responsibility for getting them well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:22 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:29 am
Posts: 246
Hi Madyson007 -

I have followed your threads since you first posted here. I believe you are savvy enough to know the difference between manipulation and sincere effort on your son's part.

In 'spirit' I agree with suboxfreedom. I have kids your son's age also. I provide a roof over their head, and they have health issues also (non - addict issues).

Yes, they work. Yes - they are expected to get up and get going. BUT - what is important in our household is that we are treating the health issues (a heart condition in my case).

I personally believe that is your position right now. You need to get him 'officially' in a treatment program - and call his bluff on his desire to get on with life.

Let's say he get's on suboxone - and nothing changes. Then - I think you would be able to put your head down on your pillow - and say 'I have done EVERYTHING I know how to do.' Then you take dramatic steps - but you NEED TO GET YOURSELF COUNSELING.

The bare knuckled reality is that if he is playing you - and you are forced to shove him out the door - your next visit may be in the hospital ER, or worse - the mortuary from an overdose.

The best case, is that he is sincere in getting better - and suboxone and your structure at home - give him the solid foundation to make positive moves. Again - I am worried for you and your family by living in the middle. Nobody wins. He is currently taking suboxone inappropriately - and illegally. You feel horrible - because you can't quantify what all the issues are - you are just seeing symptoms. You have people all around you with advice - probably everywhere from condemnation, to 'put him inpatient' somewhere, to throw him out on the street, to God knows what.

I honestly pray you get a treatment plan for him that he, himself wants. Then you can determine if you are being manipulated and taken advantage of - or if this is the solid foundation he needs to get back on his feet.

I have no idea if this helps. Time is not your friend right now - when you are not in treatment - and he is either manipulating things, or this is part of withdrawal because we don't know how much suboxone he is taking, how frequent, even if he is taking them properly. Yowza.

Please keep us posted. Sorry you are in such a pickle. Outsiders can easily throw you the 'tough love' bone - but I've been there. Sometime you have to do that - BUT - there is another victim in the TOUGH LOVE - and that is YOU! Please take my advice, and get yourself and your husband help (if possible, if not - yourself for sure) so that if you are forced to exercise a tough love scenario - you are able to handle the possible outcomes. Funny how a good outcome is never really a problem to worry about with tough love. It's the bad outcome that causes lifelong regrets.

All the best, and please keep us posted.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:35 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:57 pm
Posts: 68
I sincerely thank you for your response, it really mean a lot. I get the whole tough love thing and we may be getting closer to that but right now he is a train wreck. We need to get all the tools we can together for him to get well. The sleep thing may not sound like a big deal to some but I see my son struggle to sleep, I hear him moving from his bed to the couch, back to his bedroom, to the office couch, try to fall asleep...he wants to sleep. His lack of sleep is compounding a lot of his emotions. If after he has tried a Suboxone program under a doctors care and continues in patient rehab and we still see no improvement, we may not have a choice. Right now he is trying and not always successfully but trying none the less to better his life. I really do get the whole tough love enabling thing for which I am guilty of but I am not there yet. I am not ready to throw him out and say swim...not yet.

LatheDude wrote:
Hi Madyson007 -

I have followed your threads since you first posted here. I believe you are savvy enough to know the difference between manipulation and sincere effort on your son's part.

In 'spirit' I agree with suboxfreedom. I have kids your son's age also. I provide a roof over their head, and they have health issues also (non - addict issues).

Yes, they work. Yes - they are expected to get up and get going. BUT - what is important in our household is that we are treating the health issues (a heart condition in my case).

I personally believe that is your position right now. You need to get him 'officially' in a treatment program - and call his bluff on his desire to get on with life.

Let's say he get's on suboxone - and nothing changes. Then - I think you would be able to put your head down on your pillow - and say 'I have done EVERYTHING I know how to do.' Then you take dramatic steps - but you NEED TO GET YOURSELF COUNSELING.

The bare knuckled reality is that if he is playing you - and you are forced to shove him out the door - your next visit may be in the hospital ER, or worse - the mortuary from an overdose.

The best case, is that he is sincere in getting better - and suboxone and your structure at home - give him the solid foundation to make positive moves. Again - I am worried for you and your family by living in the middle. Nobody wins. He is currently taking suboxone inappropriately - and illegally. You feel horrible - because you can't quantify what all the issues are - you are just seeing symptoms. You have people all around you with advice - probably everywhere from condemnation, to 'put him inpatient' somewhere, to throw him out on the street, to God knows what.

I honestly pray you get a treatment plan for him that he, himself wants. Then you can determine if you are being manipulated and taken advantage of - or if this is the solid foundation he needs to get back on his feet.

I have no idea if this helps. Time is not your friend right now - when you are not in treatment - and he is either manipulating things, or this is part of withdrawal because we don't know how much suboxone he is taking, how frequent, even if he is taking them properly. Yowza.

Please keep us posted. Sorry you are in such a pickle. Outsiders can easily throw you the 'tough love' bone - but I've been there. Sometime you have to do that - BUT - there is another victim in the TOUGH LOVE - and that is YOU! Please take my advice, and get yourself and your husband help (if possible, if not - yourself for sure) so that if you are forced to exercise a tough love scenario - you are able to handle the possible outcomes. Funny how a good outcome is never really a problem to worry about with tough love. It's the bad outcome that causes lifelong regrets.

All the best, and please keep us posted.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:05 pm 
I have to agree with LatheDude. Without knowing you and your family and all the particulars of the situation, I think it's wrong to advise you to exercise hard-core 'tough love' at this juncture. From what I've derived from all your postings, it sounds like your son is trying to get on the right path. If he were still actively using drugs (other than Suboxone) and had zero interest in recovery and showed zero initiative to do anything positive with his life......then Yes, I'd probably say it's time to strong arm him and kick him out. But I really don't gather that that's the case.
I feel strongly that he deserves a chance to get lined out on a legitimate Suboxone treatment regimen, get stabilized and then reevaluate.
Now if several weeks pass on a structured plan of care with Suboxone and other recovery modalities and he still is sleeping all day, not seeking employment or enrolled in school, not making any forward motion.....you've got a problem! I certainly would not put up with a 20 year-old in my home who is disrespectful, unappreciative of my efforts to help, and unwilling to work.
The thing is.....he's sick, he cannot simply "snap out of it!" If only it were that simple! He's been on a rollercoaster of drug addiction, making half-hearted efforts at getting clean and facing failure after failure. It's a difficult cycle to break. In my opinion, the depressed moods, lethargy, and lack of motivation that goes along with all this cannot be understated! It's horrendous....it really is! I feel sorry for him....I've been there and done that....it's debilitating and discouraging and you can't just magically wish it away.
You do need help, as LatheDude said. This whole thing is hard to understand if you've not lived it yourself. The love of mother to son, the bond that exists is profound. I have kids in that age range too, and there is no length I wouldn't go to in order to give them their best chance at beating this and getting their life back. So hang in there....help him in any and every way you can, don't give up on him and don't write him off.....not yet. You're not a fool, you're not going to let him take advantage of you and your support forever. Hang on....get him set up on his Sub therapy and go from there!
Don't reward any bad behavior, acknowledge any positive efforts he makes and hold him accountable. Love him, support his positive strides, and meet him where he is. Don't punish him for things he cannot change (the past), encourage him to start from today and do what he can with this day and keep moving forward. Remind him that he is young and it's not too late to fix this.....his whole life is ahead of him and it can be a good life if he'll take the advice and help that's being offered to him by the experts. Just my opinion.....as a mom and as an addict. I'll be praying for you.


Top
  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:55 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:29 am
Posts: 164
I would highly recommend Al-Anon and/or Nar Anon Meetings so you can identify and fellowship with others in your situation. This forum works best when dealing with people who are addicts themselves and in recovery. It is extremely difficult to advise a 3rd party [even if you are the mother] how to help someone they love who is actively using narcotics. There are just too many variables and unknowns without hearing from the addict themselves.

That being said, I do want elaborate a little on my previous thoughts. Most active addicts are professionals at manipulation... we are especially good at exploiting those who love us most. Many loved ones who are being used... are either unaware of it or else in denial... and some who know it, fall into the rescuer role which serves a separate purpose for themselves. It's called "co-dependency". I'm not saying that is the situation here but I've also read the blog and the early postings and believe there could be something going on in the background??

While using, we are selfish and and our own comforts/desires come first and foremost. This young man who is sleeping during the day and up all night is doing this because thats what young addicts do... they avoid daytime because that is when responsible people work, take care of business, and conduct normal activities. They stay up at night because that is when they can connect and spend time with their using friends and avoid the realities of normal daytime. I suspect he has a cell phone and PC which he uses during the evening to keep in contact with his buddies while at home.

In any event... I don't disagree with helping him get started into a subs program and even paying the first couple of mos; with the caveat he will pay back the costs involved. I know I sound like a "hard a**" but I just think you need to be taking more steps towards making this lad responsible for his own recovery.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group