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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:31 pm 
Yes it was horrible being in that situation like you said libra its bad enough going through it in the comfort of your own home. Im gonna use that experience as a motivater when and if I ever decide to get off subs and just think back "you can do this you went through it in jail and this is nowhere near as bad as that'. We'll see how good that works tho haha.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:49 am 
I couldn't help posting on this thread. This subject really gets my "dander up!" I'm so sorry for all of us who have had to suffer with opiate withdrawals with no comfort meds....in jail or at home! It is absolutely barbaric! I've been there and done that and I will never forget it! I detoxed cold-turkey from high doses of IV Fentanyl, IV Demerol, high doses of po oxycodone, hydrocodone, Soma, and a little bit of Valium. The quantity of IV drugs I was diverting from my workplace was massive! I am sooooo blessed that I wasn't turned in to the legal system and charged with something like intent to distribute (or whatever it's called in legal terminology.) I know Rossma said the same thing......If I got what I really deserved, I'd probably be sitting in jail right now. Thank God for His protection and for the mercy of my employer.
Regarding the issue at hand. Once 'caught' doing what I was doing.....it was all about paying for my crimes and trying to find a way to hold onto my nursing license........all fear-based and punitive. At least that's how it felt. It was less about helping me get better and more about punishing me. I was brought before the "Case Manager" who was employed by the Board of Nursing. I was given an assessment in which I 'confessed' to all the drugs I'd been using, signed a bunch of stuff basically saying that I would not attempt to work as a nurse and that I would use no drugs. And I was told to schedule a formal assessment with a psycholgist to determine what level of treatment I needed. Funny thing was that I signed paperwork that said I would use NO drugs of any kind except Tylenol or Advil or Aleve from that day forward....but I couldn't get an appointment for that formal assessment for about three more weeks! Ummmmm......okay.....So I'm just supposed to do nothing until then? I had no idea what I was in for!! To add to the fun....I was from that day forward subject to being called for drug screens each and every day. So basically I was left to cold-turkey withdraw at home, on my own, with no resources for help whatsoever. Granted, it certainly wan't as bad as doing it in jail, but pretty bad nonetheless! I drained the hot water heater multiple times a day.....the only relief I got was sitting in a tub full of scalding hot water, which I would not have been able to do in jail obviously. So I really feel for those of you who had to detox in jail.....I'm so sorry.
Okay....to my main point. I found myself in the middle of the "medical system" version of drug court or whatever you want to call it. And still, I was denied access to comfort medications, and buprenorphine was never even suggested as an option for my addiction treatment or rehabilitation. That ought to tell us something! If even within the medical professions the stigma, ignorance and disregard for human suffering when it comes to addictions prevail......how far away are we from the general 'system' accepting alternative, more humane ways of breaking the cycle of addiction? In my opinion.....we have a long, long way to go.
As donh suggested....I don't see any precedent-setting cases making it far enough through the court system to bring about real change. They'd rather deal with it quietly and on an individual basis for those who 'scream' loud enough. They don't want us to hear about those cases. Again....all fear-based! As if scaring the crap out of an addict is going to bring about long-lasting change! In my case, rather than go through all I would have had to go through to attempt to be allowed to take Suboxone and keep my nursing license.....I simply quietly bowed out and surrendered my license. What good came from that? Absolutely nothing. My shame, embarrassment, fear and ignorance at the time about these issues trumped the good that could have come from my hiring an attorney and taking this before the Board and trying to bring about some change.
Sadly, I don't see any of this changing anytime soon. In the 'world's' eyes we are pathetic, out of control, selfish individuals who could stop this if we wanted to badly enough. That's how I see it, no matter that addiction is technically accepted as a disease. I don't know when or if the general public and the legal system will ever accept the disease model. As donh said....we are the 'minority' in this instance and the discrimination is rampant. Unfortunately, most people deep-down feel like we deserve whatever misery we get. And I will admit that there is still a part of me that has a hard time accepting that that is not true......That I'm a good person with a bad illness.
I suppose that leaves us to lift one another up in this fight.....encourage each other as fellow addicts. I for one, am so sorry for all the suffering we've all endured....for all we've lost....for all the pain of detox....for all the money it's all cost us....the relationships, etc. We've paid and paid and paid. Love you all! Stay strong!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:46 pm 
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Setmefree:

Your story just made me bawl. I'm sitting here at work, crying like a baby because it's all so very sad. Yes, we're addicts and we have no one to blame but ourselves. However, for those of us who are "on the mend" so to speak, we're still frowned upon as if we were lying, thieving, scum of the earth. I know everyone here has a sad and painful story to tell and it breaks my heart. But knowing that I am not alone gives me a lot of hope and encouragement (still CRYING - good thing the Judge knows I cry over anything and if he catches me, I can just say I got emotional over an email or something, lol).

Something DOES need to be done. But again, you're right. People don't want to address it because they see it is a "ugly" and they (the general public, politicians, police and medical professionals) would rather treat us as criminals rather than someone with a disease. It's total discrimination!

Ok... Done crying. Now I'm just fucking pissed off!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:07 pm 
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It's nice to think it will change or that we can make it change, or whatever, but it won't. The problem is consequences. Or more specifically, a lack thereof. What I mean is, no one dies from opiate withdrawal. It just doesn't happen. So, where is the incentive for any criminal justice system to take pity on a lowlife junkie scumbag criminal who has just been arrested for committing crimes to support their habit? Answer: There is none.

When I was in that jail cell, doubled over on the floor in a pool of my own vomit, there were guards coming by my cell taunting me.

"Oh, you poor fucking baby!"

or

"Hey, asshole, I'm going home to drink some beer, eat a steak and have sex with my wife, what are you doing tonight? Oh, yeah, puking on yourself! Ha ha! "

This went on for the entire time I detoxed. I was given valium, once. That was it.

There is no compassion in the criminal justice system and anyone who has spent time behind bars like me will tell you that not only is there no compassion, but there's also plenty of corruption. A lot of those same guards that were taunting me, were also smuggling drugs -including opiates like heroin- into the jail. And making a killing doing it.

Oh, I could tell you guys some stories that would make your skin crawl, believe me.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:15 pm 
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SMF, your story really hits home with me. Mine is very much the same as you know, but I was so petrified of those in authority that I did everything I was told to do without question. I thought that it was the only way I would avoid the consequences that I deserved. Looking back, my employer was very understanding and I was whisked off to rehab before I even knew what hit me. I didn't even have a chance to consider what if any options I had. After a lot of hard work and 3 years of bi weekly random testing etc, etc I was again able to practice nursing in good standing. After reading what happened to you I am ever, ever so grateful for that. I can tell you are a good nurse. A great nurse. What a waste to have removed you from our profession.!!!!!

Part of the job that I used to to have involved going to the county jail weekly to assist the inmates (I don't know what is politically correct to say) and perform certain testing. I worked in public health for 8 years.

It was an education, to say the least. I very much enjoyed meeting the inmates and without exception they were always respectful and kind with me as well. The COs? That was different. There was one CO there who was wonderful, and was soft spoken, polite and respectful. I noticed that the clients were the same with him in turn. I am no prude and I like to think that I've pretty much seen or heard it all, but I was shocked at the way some of the COs spoke to the inmates. Honestly, it is no wonder that some of them "act up". What the heck do you expect when you treat somebody like that????? Always in the back of my mind was there but for the grace of God go I. I felt how degrading and humiliating it must be. When I was alone with them (as alone as you get in that venue) I always tried to strike up a conversation and I found that a large number of them were there for non violent drug-related charges.

What is the answer? I don't think that jail solves anything. I also think that as far as Joe Q. Public is concerned, addicts are a pus-filled boil on the butt of society. We have no choice but to lift each other up and support each other! I have to have hope and faith that somehow it will change, but you're right, I think it will come slowly if at all. At AA and NA meetings every minute around the world a moment of silence is offered for those who are sick and suffering. Most of us have known in our own way, what suffering is, and it comes to us at every level - physical, emotional, financial, grief and loss, etc. My hope is that we can all come out and make it to the other side. I feel that I have, and I am most grateful. I could not have done it without the help of other recovering alcoholics and addicts. I wish that I was in a position to help those in need in a more concrete way today.

I am very grateful to all of you,
~Rossma


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:05 pm 
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Well here is what I think. I think that since most prisons and jails are known to have drugs in them that they really ought to give people their suboxone if they are locked up. It is a legal medication in the US and I really don't see how it could be denied. If someone goes into prison and gets access to heroin they could die from an overdose. Should that occur because someone was denied their suboxone, I would imagine there would be quite the lawsuit from the family members should they so choose. Guards and CO's are not medical providers. Nurses are not doctors. I say if the doctor at the prison ok's it, then the inmate should get it. If that doctor doesn't ok it when someone was already prescribed it, then I would have to say they ought to have a pretty damned good reason given relapse / death rates for addicts, especially those who have at one point been incarcerated (I have no proof but I speculate the death rate may be higher for those people ....again no proof, just suspicion).

On top of that, I think that it would just be good practice anyways. I am a huge fan of drug court already. I highly believe in trying to HELP these people as much as humanly possible. Most crimes are drug crimes and our attention should be placed on anything that helps place addiction into remission. Period. If people are taught in prison that there is a drug that could put them into remission so the COULD get on with their lives, many of them would have a light at the end of that long dark tunnel and would have something to work and hope for. Not only that, but I wouldn't be opposed to using the suboxone as an incentive for good behavior either. I tend to be fairly liberal however and also don't have an issue with prostitution in prisons either for good behavior. The testosterone levels are so high in there and I believe research showed at one point that aggression levels were lower and behavior better for those inmates with the option/possibility of getting laid. It is far more socially acceptable among men in prison to have good behavior or to back down in order to get laid than to avoid the hole.

Our whole system just bugs the crap out of me to be honest. Which reminds me......today is my last day to vote so I'm getting off here and going to go fill out my ballot.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:26 am 
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Reading this post almost made me throw up, which I did MANY times detoxing from IV'ing 30-40 bags of "H" a day in jail. The cops "forgot" to tell the bail-bondsman my friend and I were back in the cells. Then I had to ALMOST detox off methadone in prison, (30 days wasn't enough time for me to get totally clean, so back to the clinic I went). I live in N.H., and was told that because the drugs, opiates of any kind, will not kill me during detox, they don't give them. It was so nice of the CO's to rip me out of the cell and clean it up cause there was vomit all over the floor. I didn't want to get out of the fetal position, nevermind getting on my hands and knees to clean my own mess. Watching an opiate addict withdraw must be the only entertainment prison guards get.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:09 am 
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Really, who are these people who can go to work and watch someone suffer so obviously and then make fun of them?? :evil:

I cannot IMAGINE what you really went through. How long those days seemed.

But I pity the people who watched you go through that hell and did nothing to help you. It must stink to have that degree of a degenerated soul. They must not sleep well at night or like themselves all that much. I'd never be able to live with myself if I shut my humanity and compassion down to such an extreme level that someone writhing in agony made me want to joke with by buddies. Good luck to them. They'll need it. We do reap what we sow.

God Bless!
laddertipper


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:50 pm 
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IMO prison guards, law enforcement, etc...are all retards with pencil dicks. I want to say it is your responsibility to not get yourself in that situation to begin with, but that wouldn't be fair. I was lucky enough to never get pulled over with narcotics because I always had nice cars and did the speed limit. But I did experience a few hours here and there in jail, and once spend the night in a county prison when I was a teen. I had to take my clothes off and bend over for this weirdo retard who actually smiled at me. All the inmates were stripped down and humiliated before they went in the holding cells. Anyway, that dude smiled and stared at my cock like he wanted to eat it. They also wouldn't let me take a piss...and I eventually just pissed in my pants. (too much info but that is the realty of prison...they get off on torture) I went to jail because I was driving with this stupid kid I knew at the time....and he had a light bulb out on his rear license plate out of all things and we were smoking pot in the car. I had to stay in a cell with the foulest smelliest scum that ever existed. There was one toilet in the cell, and like 15 dudes. This one guy, who looked like he was homeless took like 8 shits, and every time he did this funny guy would be like"put some water on that" and he would flush the toilet. That was the first and last time I had to spend a night in county.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:31 pm 
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I guess it's a roll of the dice when it comes to imprisonment... It really shouldn't be that way but if you get a nurse or administration who doesn't care you can be denied. I live in California and I have 3 friends who have been locked away for months and they even got to take their dose of Methadone! I don't understand why Suboxone would or even COULD be denied and when they say it's to stop them from getting to other inmates thats complete B.S. because almost everyone in prison is on Benzos and it's easier to get drugs in side then it is out side... I feel sorry for anyone who has to WD alone but to go threw a full blown WD in jail, I couldn't imagine...


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:56 pm 
Yeah them telling me its because of diversion to other inmates was a bullshit excuse. They gave it to me the first day and watched me dissolve it under my tongue, since you dissolve it there is no way to "cheek" a dose and then spit it out to sell or trade and they know that but are non compassionate assholes. Plus the fact that they kept me in solitary confinement for the enitre stay where I never had a cellmate and had no contact with other inmates. They said they were going to taper me off, I was on 8mgs at that time and they conisdered giving me my 8mg dose for one day a taper wtf. They wouldnt give me my sub but the nurse was going to give me seroquel. Seroquel is more dangerous than suboxone I dont get the point. The nurse also gave me smartass comments about suboxone and told me "I dont think you should be taking that stuff anyway, you should get off it."


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:12 pm 
Dude this freakin blows!! I've heard some crazy mess before but this just seems inhumane. I think you could have a lawsuit with this. Regardless if you can die or not from the withdrawal, thats just pure torture. They cant do that!! I dont see how they could possibly justify this. I do know that once you enter jail you are no longer a human being. You are equal to trash in outsiders eyes. Actually probably less than trash. They strip you of every single human right possible but what happen to you is wrong. Honestly, i think you could probably get at least a consultation with a lawyer an see what he thinks, unless its too late but i dont think its ever too late. This just makes me sick to think that a human being could torture another in such a way. Its cruelty!! I believe if it were me, i would try to take a stand and make an example out of them if i could. I just cant see how they could come close to justifying this. No way they could. Im sure they would come up with something but with the right lawyer, he/she will tear them apart in court. You can get lawyers that only get paid if they win. I guarantee you if you took this to the right lawyer they would jump on it like white on rice. It really seems like theirs a point that could be made here for the overall situation. Im sorry this happen to you man!! Thats horrible!! Im glad you made it out of their with your sanity. I know i probably would have lost my mind cuz my body doesnt take withdrawal well at all. Especially cold turkey for 12 days straight. It makes me cringe to even think of this. Sickening!!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:30 pm 
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suboxowned,

I think the nurses comments about "you shouldn't be on that stuff, you need to get off of it" pretty much sums up what was happening. Those dirt bags were either trying to 'help' you get off of sub or, and this one is MUCH more likely the truth...they knew you would suffer horribly and they didn't give a rats ass. If I ran the world I would make sure to get all of them good and addicted to Oxy's or something like that, then put them in solitary for 12 days with you and me outside their cell rubbing our eyes at them!!

They might have a change of heart then!!

Then, of course, if I ran the world I would probably end up getting impeached within 30 seconds of being sworn in. HA


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:51 pm 
Yeah it was pretty horrible even my outpatient counselor sort of "mocks" me about it when I say I was traumatized by it. Theres a woman in my group who is a heroin addict and DCFS is going to take her kids if she doesnt clean up and she keeps relasping everyday, I told her how well Ive done on suboxone and she says she doesnt want to take it and the counselor says "I dont think she needs that stuff". Yeah its much better to lose your kids because you cant get clean then go on suboxone :roll: The counselor is a recovering addict too but is not a fan of ORT (even tho she got on methadone for a few week measly hydrocodone "addiction" :roll: pretty hypocritical) and says things like "I always get a nice chuckle when you bring up that story about your small little time in jail" and Im like dont you realize it wasnt the time I spent in there it was because I was in withdrawal!!! and she is sarcastic about it. The CO's in jail dont know jackshit about addiction and withdrawal, what realy made me mad was like a week or a little less had gone by and I was begging for my suboxone and saying Im in withdrawal and the guy goes "Im pretty sure the withdrawal is gone now like Im sitting there pale as a ghost kicking my legs not able to sleep" Im trying to explain to him about half lives but the guy was pretty much a freakin primate with a badge.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:11 am 
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I'm sorry, and i mean no offense to anyone, but if we're honest with ourselves, and not even touching the touchy-feely disease model of addiction: everytime ive sat in jail its been for something I did wrong, and if it were THAT important for me not to kick (and I sure as HELL wouldnt expect any county jail around me to give me my drugs) and feel that way, I wouldnt have done what I did.

Now, Ive noticed, when Im in jail, I NEVER kick as bad, why because its simply not available! even my crazy craving addict brain manages to make peace with the fact im not getting my drugs and tones it down a bit. dope and subs are a drug of choice, one better than the other, but still - i expect no mercy from the machine

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:37 am 
I believe i would be ready to choke that outpatient counselor. Can you get a different one? She seems a bit rude and uncaring. How can she be that hipocritical if she was on methadone for opiate addiction. Thats just rediculous!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:39 am 
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Some people have no business being counselors. It sound's like her comments go beyond rude and are actually harmful to her patients. It sounds like the Mom who is going to lose her kids could really benefit from Sub. It's a crying shame.


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