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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:32 am 
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Suboxone isn't working for me.... again...

I was hoping, praying that this change in medications would slow my metabolism of the sub a bit but no. Lastnight I used a moderate amount of gear and got next to full effect. Blockade is still minimal eevery day. Cravings are still huge come nightfall.

The worse thing is, while I'm on my suboxone, it seems impossible to cut-back on my using of other opiates. I have 8mg at 8am and I can have .15g of heroin at 8pm no worries. If I start using once a week, then I'll either keep it at that level or eventually step it up and do it more. Unlike when I'm not on drug-replacement, now it seems virtually impossible to wind things back. It's extremely difficult to do, but achieveable, but not when I'm feeding a legal substitute into my brain each day to keep my dependence on a level. I can keep it on a level, but reducing it is impossible. I don't know why this is.

Fact is, this is addiction. It's probably fortunate that drug replacement - both methadone and buprenorphine - have never worked for me. I'd rather be dead than stuck on opioids for life. So this forces me into a harrowing position. Recover 100% or fuck off this godforsaken planet.

What other options do I have though? Vivitrol - maybe, unless I metabolise that fast as well. NA ? no way. If there was a God there'd be no addiction in this world.

It seems I'm really good at helping others, but even better at harming myself.

Fuck this gig seriously. What kind of God would leave a 50$ cap of heroin on the sidewalk for a curious 16 year old to pick up?


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:25 am 
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That's a really, really crazy tough spot to be in. I don't know a whole lot about what it feels like to be an opiate addict, so I have to compare it to being an alcoholic. With being an alcoholic, as long as my body was getting any reminder of what alcohol felt like, I could never get past the mental obsession. I don't think every drug works for every single person. If you know it is not working for you, then you have to try something else. At least you are being honest with yourself and other people and not trying to pretend like it is all working just fine. Maybe total abstinence is what you will have to eventually do. I certainly don't know, but I feel for you, because you must feel horribly stuck. It's supposed to work. It isn't working. What are you supposed to do when that happens?

I do believe, however, that it is possible to find recovery in complete abstinence. I know it's possible because I haven't had a drink since November 23rd, 2005, and I used to think that life without drinking would absolutely suck. I was 100% as totally hopeless with my addiction as anyone can be. I was wrong, though, because I can live without drinking and it is actually normal and comfortable and preferable now, where for a long time, I used to think it was not even possible to skip drinking for one day!! Plus, I've known old timers from meetings who had been off opiates for decades. Obviously, it's possible for opiate addicts too. For me, it took a while for that obsession to let up, but it did, and it's pretty much gone. Sure, from time to time I think about it, but never seriously. Maybe you can get to the same place, even if you need to get off Suboxone. Whatever you decide, though, I hope you keep posting, because it worries me a whole lot on a human level to hear someone sound so out of confidence. I have so much empathy for what you are feeling. I'm sorry and I wish I could make it better for you. Man, I DO care, though. (((BIG HUG)))) to you, okay? If I could reach through the 'puter and hug you, I absolutely would.

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 3:09 am 
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Thanks so much Laddertipper. We all have our ups and downs. This weekend I wasn't that kind to myself it seems.

Look, I need to give Suboxone some credit. It has allowed me to maintain a level of manageability in my life even during the recent period of regular lapses. I'm still kicking ass with my study. However these lapses just aren't letting up. Maybe the holidays have just left me at a loose end. Fingers crossed my return to study on Monday will bring back some routine and faith in my ability to achieve. This has been the most manageable I have been ever while living in my city of birth, where heroin is plentiful, pure and easier to score than a carton of milk at the corner store.

I still have a healthy appearance. My family are completely unaware of my slips, and I've yet to fall into a complete relapse. But I know for a fact from my lengthy history with drugs that the moment I begin to use 3 times a week that I'm driving down the one way on-ramp onto the highway of full blown relapse. And where I manage to exit is always impossible to know. 2 months, 12 months or 3 years. I can't do it again. Jail is the next step, or death.

Fact is my personal values aren't particularly congruent with recovery. I have little faith in society and humanity at the best of times. I'm the kinda guy who needs to work a job I know somehow helps our cause in the big picture, but these are few and far between in this materialistic, narcissistic world. Seeing things in the big picture is a curse. Ignorance is a bliss I was never graced with.

If I didn't find it so futile, I would love being an advocate for people in our situation. I would love to navigate the mindfield that is drug & alcohol policy in my country. To actually find my voice outside anonymous forums, and be able to make an impact, could be my Godsend.

And the drugs stopped working a long time ago, yet I still use. Why? I fear that using may have become my modus operandi at some stage.

Anyway, just havin a bit of a bummer. Thanks for your support Laddertipper :)


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 8:40 am 
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I feel bad for you, but I cant understand the GOD bashing, People are always trying to blame other people ( GOD , Drs, and Suboxone) for there addiction issues... Opiates have a great purpose when taken correctly and under a Drs supervision , now I dont know about " gear "


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:13 am 
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Painter, I'm always amazed at the idiocy of your responses. It appears you really don't READ the posts, or think about what someone is going through. Where is tearj3ker blaming? He's talking about his experience and he's having a fucked weekend.

Tearj3erker-I know how you feel...i've been there before. Those feelings of hopelessness are a struggle to get through.
I've had complete abstinence before for five years and it was truly a miracle for me. And that is my goal again. To get off of Sub and not be on anything. I've been able to work hard in a recovery program so when I get off of sub i can remain successful in recovery.

It's hard to feel stuck, like Laddertipper said. and you sound hopeless. But at the end of your post you have this need for a cause...and you talk about wanting to help. I think that says a lot about who you are and I believe that if you started on that road...doing something for others and trying to make some changes in this field, that you'd feel better over all. When you find purpose I think you will find some answers to your addiction. And I think you'll be able to stop the rat in a cage cycle of using and not using and dabbling and trying Sub, etc.

It's great that you feel you can post how you are feeling on the forum...and get it out...and tell your truth. At least you are getting it out instead of allowing all those thoughts to just roll around in your head. Now the next step is action! It's hard but it'll make a difference I believe.


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:27 am 
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Tear.... keep searching and you will find. I did.


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:44 am 
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There is no need whatsoever to call another person's posts "idiocy". What's with all the name calling of people and their posts around here lately? Please keep this in mind. Thanks.

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 Post subject: seriously
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:16 am 
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Your right Hat.......so I will use one of your phrases....It is not idocy.........it is ignorant! There is that better?

Jim


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 Post subject: name calling
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:34 am 
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Let's clarify. I did not call Painter a name. I didn't call him an idiot. (and Painter himself has called others awful names that were never called out...). I said what he wrote was idiocy meaning foolish. It was foolish....and uncaring about someone who was suffering this weekend.

Calm down hatmaker


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:28 pm 
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ReRaise, I honestly do not know what the hell your problem is and I wasn't even speaking to you.

Chinagirl, did I say you called anyone a name? I said there was no need to call another person's posts idiocy and frankly there is not. (The rest of my statement was referring to what has been going on around the forum in general lately and I think that was pretty clear.)

I think everyone here knows that it's a moderator's responsibility, in part, to remind members of the rules and to try keep things civil around here. If anyone doesn't want to be reminded of the rules, don't insult people or their posts...it's as simple as that.

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 Post subject: That was polite of you
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:10 pm 
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Wow hatmaker is that a question you want me to answer and really is that the tone that is necessary? I interjected because I am a member of the forum and I still can't quite figure out why a "Moderator" needed to even jump on this thread unless you were giving your personal opinon on something. Seriously someone is reaching out for help and you are scolding the children cause someone said another's post was idocy.......Painter is a big boy......a little petty don't you think? And imagine if I responded with What the hell is your problem? I think you need a break........

Jim


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 6:20 pm 
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tearj3rker wrote:
Thanks so much Laddertipper. We all have our ups and downs. This weekend I wasn't that kind to myself it seems.

Look, I need to give Suboxone some credit. It has allowed me to maintain a level of manageability in my life even during the recent period of regular lapses. I'm still kicking ass with my study. However these lapses just aren't letting up. Maybe the holidays have just left me at a loose end. Fingers crossed my return to study on Monday will bring back some routine and faith in my ability to achieve. This has been the most manageable I have been ever while living in my city of birth, where heroin is plentiful, pure and easier to score than a carton of milk at the corner store.

I still have a healthy appearance. My family are completely unaware of my slips, and I've yet to fall into a complete relapse. But I know for a fact from my lengthy history with drugs that the moment I begin to use 3 times a week that I'm driving down the one way on-ramp onto the highway of full blown relapse. And where I manage to exit is always impossible to know. 2 months, 12 months or 3 years. I can't do it again. Jail is the next step, or death.

Fact is my personal values aren't particularly congruent with recovery. I have little faith in society and humanity at the best of times. I'm the kinda guy who needs to work a job I know somehow helps our cause in the big picture, but these are few and far between in this materialistic, narcissistic world. Seeing things in the big picture is a curse. Ignorance is a bliss I was never graced with.

If I didn't find it so futile, I would love being an advocate for people in our situation. I would love to navigate the mindfield that is drug & alcohol policy in my country. To actually find my voice outside anonymous forums, and be able to make an impact, could be my Godsend.

And the drugs stopped working a long time ago, yet I still use. Why? I fear that using may have become my modus operandi at some stage.

Anyway, just havin a bit of a bummer. Thanks for your support Laddertipper :)


Anytime. Actually, what you said strikes a cord with me. The world is pretty crappy a lot of the time. It can seriously suck to be smart, too. There are so many people who walk around and seem to be pretty blissfully happy....and also clueless. I wish I could be more like that sometimes. I am a genuine person, and things bother me way more than they do other people. It sounds like your in the same boat. I think we have to learn to put up our boundaries very carefully and only let the people and things into our lives that won't turn around and bite us. It's not easy to do this. I hope for you that you find something you can wholeheartedly invest yourself in and believe in.

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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 Post subject: really?
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 6:25 pm 
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Hatmaker, what you just said to ReRaise was much ruder than me calling someone's post foolish (idiocy) and uncaring....and you did say it was name calling reread your post. I think calling out another poster who blatantly was uncaring and dissmisive to someone who needed to vent his feelings of hopelessness and his experience this weekend is completely in order. We are here to help each other. I was reminding Painter of that.

Geesh, I agree with ReRaise....you need a break.


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:54 pm 
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Tearj3rker,

I am sorry you are feeling that way, it really sucks that the sub isn't working for you. I am not sure what dose you are on...is it a high dose already or do you think more would help? I don't have any words of wisdom, just wanted to say sorry you are in such a shitty place right now in your life.
Orangedoll

P.S. I think Hat does a great job as mod by the way, nobody has the right to call Painters posts foolish. Its his opinion. Painter has been helpful to me in the past when I was on here under a different screen name.(Kire) I had to change names....long story....so thanks to hat and painter who have been awesome......


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:58 pm 
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I gotta politely agree with both ReRaise and China. It was weird to pick that 'idiocy' out as something that needed a moderator to intervene on. There are many times people are incredibly rude to many of us and, Hat, you don't step in and say anything, even if you come up behind and respond on the thread. I mean, c'mon....there's a point where it is hard to take you seriously, after all the threads that have gotten downright nasty, yet you said nothing at all. I know you do not exactly like me. Let's not pretend. I don't expect you to intervene on my behalf OR on China's behalf, for that matter. It seems like whether someone gets chastised is dependent on something other than whether their behavior is truly rude or not. Just try to be more consistent, please. You make it too personal, IMO, and it is tough to respect that.

Peace, Hat.

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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 Post subject: China....
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 8:31 am 
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I have NEVER called anyone an awful name, Grow up, feeling sorry for people dosent help them at all.. You bleeders have scared a few of our best and smartest people away from this site, I do wish tearjerker the best, I truly do, But I'm sick and tired of the few around here who blame either Drs, GOD or Suboxone for anything... I will call the blamers out, its one of the most important parts of REAL recovery... Thanks Hat, I'm neither and idiot or ignorant , I'm pretty proud of what I've done on Suboxone , I wish all the success I've had ..... Mike


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:04 am 
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bleeders?


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:09 am 
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Tearjerker, are you taking 8mg in the am only? Would it help to take a 2nd dose in the evening when you have the desire to use? Does Sub block your doc if you take it just prior to using?
Sorry I don't have any good suggestions. Hang in there, we all know where using brings us.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:02 pm 
Well.....I have had so many thoughts swirling around in my head since reading this thread, I don't even know where to start.
As far as the "who gets called out by Hatmaker and who doesn't" issue.....I definitely have some thoughts about that one. It's called "bias," plain and simple. It is a very difficult thing to not respond to posts based on our own personal biases. There is also, as Laddertipper suggested that certain members/moderators don't particulary "like" some of the members here as much as others, again probably based on bias, and that being the case, taking 'sides' is a natural reaction. It isn't right, especially from a moderator, who in my opinion, should be as unbiased as is humanly possible.
As far as members getting annoyed when another member goes on a sort of 'blaming' mission......well, it's hard sometimes not to get annoyed by that. Part of a healthy recovery involves stopping the blame game.....taking ownership of one's own responsibility for one's problems and being accountable for one's own behavior. But we need to realize that we are all at a different place in our recovery. There are many of us still searching, questioning everything. And rather than shooting them down, perhaps it would be more helpful to try to gently guide this member into seeing things more clearly, help them to see that blaming things outside themselves is not usually productive in getting better.
Finally, to the OP.....I hear you. I understand where you're coming from. I have often felt similar to you....that Sub just doesn't work very well for me anymore. I understand that you have a particularly difficult scenario with the fast metabolism of the Sub, which would make me upset also! But the lesson in your situation, to me, is that Sub cannot do it all! As far as you having a hard time believing that there is a God because these bad things happen here on this planet. I understand that too. There are a lot of questions that I have also, even as a believer. However, something I would like for you to consider is that the "god" of this earth is in fact, the devil. He reigns on this earth. Most of the horrendous things that happen here have nothing to do with God.....they have to do with the devil and they have to do with us as human beings......using our own free will which God gave us. With that free will, we choose poorly sometimes and consequently sometimes bad things happen. Obviously, bad things happen to good Chrisitian people as well, and those things are particularly difficult to address. I don't mean to go into a big sermon here, I promise I don't. I just feel so led to put these ideas out there for you, Tearjerker. Because my heart breaks for you! I know the pain you're in. Hey, I believe in God. I trust God and I've had a personal relationship with Him almost all my life, yet I have done some horrible things in my addiction. And I have struggled with 'why did God allow this to happen to me?' But I always come back to, "I allowed these things to happen to me!" I made some bad choices and allowed this demon called addiction to get ahold of me and drag me through Hell on earth. I am still struggling, as you are, with cravings and I've had lapses even while on Suboxone. So again, I get it! But I have learned to hold myself personally accountable for those choices. I think we have to begin to make better choices......the Sub can't make the choices for us, right? We have proved that! Sub can help, but it cannot do it all. I don't know if I've said a single thing that makes any sense or helps your situation at all. Just know that you're not alone. And please try to believe that God does NOT want this for you and He hasn't done this to you. He loves you and wants your life to be better. Despite that, we still have that free will that allows us to choose......every minute of every day. I think we have to find a balance between surrendering and fighting, if that makes any sense! We need to be able to surrender our will and surrender our desire for immediate gratification. But at the same time we have to be willing to fight for our sobriety, for our lives. But I know we can do it.
Please don't give up. Everyone here wants to help you....whether we say it in a way that is gentle and kind, or direct and almost hurtful, we're all addicts and we all want to see you get better. So hang in there! Let me know if I can help you in any way!


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 Post subject: Setmefree
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:46 pm 
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Setmefree, you are such a certified sweetheart!!! Your compassion impresses me a great deal. I believe in your opinion so much because you are on everyone's side, and you set a fantastic example. We all need to be looking out for everyone. And you always seem to truly understand where people are coming from. :D

laddertipper

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