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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 1:04 pm 
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All I did was point out that telling someone their posts are idiocy was uncalled for (and not to mention insulting). That is my "job" - it's what's expected of me. As for what I said to ReRaise, I asked him what his problem is because he only responds with very angry and hostile posts, this one representing another of the same.

As for the allegation that I don't address other posts that need to be "called out" and that I'm biased against people that I "don't like", well, that's simply not true. Yes, everyone is biased (and I'm no exception). And to deny that we ALL have such biases is pure foolishness. I've always strived for diplomacy, but no, I'm not perfect, although that seems to be what's expected of me. With regard to disliking certain people here, I don't know any of you aside from posts about addiction, so how could that possibly be true? I may disagree with people - maybe even strongly at times - but that doesn't generalize to the entire person, it's just not who I am. But then you wouldn't know that about me because you don't know me either. Besides, for anyone to tell me how I feel about another person is beyond presumptuous. I'm sorry if any of you feel slighted, but I can't be held responsible for you thinking I don't like you.

There are thousands of posts on this site. Is it really reasonable to expect me to catch every single word that's posted here? If I've missed a harsh word here or there it's not because I've ignored it because of who it's directed at. No, it's simply because I missed that post.

Now, since everyone has made their accusations about my alleged biases and unfair treatment of people and I've had my opportunity to respond, let's not carry this on . Instead, let's put all this bullshit aside once and for all and let tearjerker have his thread back.

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 Post subject: way off topic
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:28 pm 
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Instead of giving Tearj3ker support several went overboard over one word I wrote. Now THAT's idiotic. Like Laddertipper said, I know you don't like me Hatmaker so fine. It's been obvious since I started on the forum....no sleep lost over that...but get real. Do your job. Be moderator.... quit acting like an 8th grader-picking and choosing who gets your wagging finger. People, like your friend jackcrack, get to say the most horrid things to others on this forum....Why? Be consistent AND discerning.

My point in saying something about Painter's post (not about Painter as a person) was because it lacked all compassion for someone who was clearly in a bad space. Shame on you Hat for over reacting and not understanding the word or the context .

The topic, as a reminder, was to support another forum member. Period.


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 9:08 pm 
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HatMaker said-


As for what I said to ReRaise, I asked him what his problem is because he only responds with very angry and hostile posts, this one representing another of the same

Here are some examples of my latest posts.........Once again Hat so quick to tell someone when their information is incorrect as clearly yours is.You really should take the time to read your posts before actually submitting. I am not angry by the way......just trying to remain factual.
******************************************************************************************************


I definitely can relate with what you are saying. I have said in the past that I fear in order for me to get off suboxone is to go to inpatient treatement. Alot of people responded with that you can taper yourself and probably it would be a waste of money to go to inpatient treatment.

Of course the reason I would want to is because I am so afraid of sub w/d. Those that know me know I went through 4 days without sub and thouht I would die. I had suicidal thoughts that I could not control and they scared the hell out of me. So I decided to get to 6mgs of suboxone to lower some of the side effects and hold for awhile. But I know someday I have a decision to make. I had a colonoscopy last week and they couldn't touch me with anything and I felt the entire process. The Dr. said sorry but you just have too much of a tolerance for me to do anything for you.

I know I need two surgeries....one involving removing part of my prostrate....but I keep putting it off for fear of pain management. I know for me......inpatient treatment is a safe place for me and some days I wish I was back there....but I know I must live my life.

I have recently looked into Ibogaine....I know everyone has their own opinon about what is right but at the end of the day it is my decision to do what is best for me. For those that say I am taking sub long term......that is great they have made their decision and they are free....my worry is what if suboxone is no longer available next month.

I am not sure what I will do but I will keep looking and listening to what others do and what works for them. I will follow your thread to see what you decide and whether or not it works for you.

For now I will continue suboxone and work on my recovery but I do know that I do not want to be on suboxone forever.......
Good luck

Jim

*****************************************************************************************************
Welcome to the forum Angie...

Well we can all certainly relate to guilt and shame. I think so many times that I am lucky I am not in prison or locked up in an institution somewhere. I think you are right on when you say I stopped.......but now I deal with the shame and guilt and it is very real.

For me I joined AA and found I person with lots of sobriety (I prefer AA over NA). That person soon became my sponsor and helped me deal with alot of questions I had about getting sober. One of the things that worked for me was doing a 4th and 5th step. What this is ......is where you sit down and write out everything you have done and resentments and what your part in it was and it takes total honesty......it actually was very hard for me to write down all the things I did in active addiction. Once complete we made a time to meet at a location (park, mountaintop....somewhere private) and I shared it all with him and God. Mine took about 6 hours to do. Once we were done we said a prayer and burned everything I wrote down.

I can't tell you how much relief I felt after doing this. I had suppressed so much stuff and I lived in a constant state of fear. Now not everyone needs to do it that way. Some find it helpful just writing it all out and how they felt about it.......just to get it out of your system.

Remember you have a disease and we did things when we were active in our disease that we know were morally wrong but we did it anyway. That past will always be your past but dealing with it and sharing it with someone you trust really makes a difference......it did for me anyway.

We can try to minimize and say well I didn't kill anybody or rob a bank but I know I did things I am not proud of. If we are honest and get it all out we may just find the relief we are seeking to continue living a good life and changing our habits.

I am sure others will share their experiences with you but know you are not alone...we all have felt this way and some still struggle. I hope this helps and good luck as you continue your new way of life.

Jim
*****************************************************************************************************

It is unfortunate that you did not get more information. The key to inducting on suboxone is to be in mild w/d.....time is not as important as to how you feel. I personally was taking 20 lortab 10's a day and waited 48 hours before inducting but could have very easily done so at 24 hours. If you google COWS scale it will help you to tell you where you are in w/d's. If your tired, watery eyes, sneezing, rls you are in w/d. If your truly concerned wait till in the morning because precipitated w/d's is 20 times worse.

Again listen to your body and if you feel you are in w/d you should be ok. Yes that is a high dose........I am not a doctor but I would try 4mg to start.....in 20 minutes you will know whether your going to have precipitated w/d. After 2 hours if you still feel you are in w/d I would take the other 4mg. Clonipin is a benzo and usually a big no no when taking suboxone as it can cause respitory arrest and it is very addictive. Be very careful with it and you will probally be amazed at how great suboxone works that you wont even need it. Others will be along to share as well. good luck and let us know how you make out.

Jim

Tearjerker-How about an update. How are you doing today?


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 9:45 pm 
Thanks Ladder! I really do have compassion for all of us who are suffering with addiction.....no matter who they are and no matter what they believe and no matter where they are at this time. All I want to do is help and I try very hard to be an authentic person because I believe it's very important to a healthy recovery. I try real hard to be honest. And I see what seems to me to be a lot of others here who are being very honest as well.
There have been very few along the way who I have felt certain have not been authentic and who have not been honest. Those sorts of people have the ability to be quite manipulative......they can draw you in with their seemingly sincere concern for you, but as soon as someone says something which threatens their own beliefs (or lack thereof,) or who dares to think someone else might know something more than they do, oh how the tables turn! There are several of us 'members' who have figured this out over time. To the newer ones.....just wait, the truth always comes out in time.
As far as Hatmaker having "simply missed a post," that would really surprise me. It seems to me like she's replied to nearly each and every thread that has been made on this forum for the last year and half. So explaining her choices of who or what to 'call out' that way just doesn't seem viable to me. As far as stating that ReRaise only responds in an angry or hostile manner.....I don't see that from him very often at all. In fact, if I recall correctly, Hatmaker and ReRaise were quite friendly at one time here....guess he did something that got him placed on your list of the finger-wagging worthy. I know exactly what got me on your list! I mean really, let's just be real here, Hatmaker. Be authentic. Be honest if you can. Your biases over time are pretty obvious to anyone who's really paying attention. Perhaps you're working on these issues, as I've not seen your 'friends' come to your rescue lately. I may well get banned for saying what I've said, but I've sat by long enough watching Hatmaker give her pearls of wisdom out so freely, knowing full-well that there is much more there than meets the eye. All is not always as it appears.

Sorry, Back to you Tearjerker. As I think Lilly and some others suggested.....How about going ahead with an evening dose of Sub to block you a little better? I know it would be a daily choice - Sub or H......but you CAN choose the Sub and not the H! You mentioned several things you have going for you. Embrace all that and be grateful.....you still have some good things in your life to hold on to! I believe in your ability to stay off the Heroin. And when you do so even though you know you could use and get high, how much stronger does that make you?! Try to remember that the drugs are a LIE! They LIE to us. It only feels good for a short bit, then we're right back to feeling like shit again! At some point we've got to decide it aint worth it! I hope the week is better for you that the weekend was! Hang in there! You can do this!!


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:50 am 
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It's a catch 22, because you can either choose to be honest in your reply to these things and risk getting thrown off this site, or you can say nothing, which says something in and of itself.

Hatmaker, I honestly would like to get to a good place with you. I have zero interest in trying to hurt your feelings and I don't like having conflict with anyone. The fact of the matter is that you don't like me and I know that because you said it in messages and emails. I did not in any way presume this. You wrote quite a lot of negative stuff about me and all you had to go on at that point was a few posts I'd made that you did not agree with or like. You decided based on those few posts that you categorically disliked me. Why would someone do that? I really don't know. Whatever the reason, I wish you would at least just own it. It's silly to deny it and be indignant about it when it's already out there. I know there are other people on here that you don't like and they know it. It's silly to do this phony dance around the subject. Just be honest. I'm not going to speak for the other people who you dislike, but I know I'm eager to put this all in the past. I'd just like it if you would try to do the same and really look at whether you treat people on here equally or whether you tend to intervene when you have the opportunity to correct someone who you've marked as having views or experiences that you don't like or that make you uncomfortable or don't coincide with yours. Please listen to what I'm saying and see this as an olive branch, because that's what it is. It's not an attack. I'd really respect it if you would at least own what I already know to be the truth. I'm not saying you are a 'bad' person. No way. People are complicated. Honestly, if you would give some of us a chance, specifically the people who you seem to like the least, you would probably be shocked at how understanding and helpful we would actually be.

I know you are a pretty intelligent person, so you have to understand how obvious it is to many of us who have been around here a while that there are predictable times when you will jump in and correct a person(s) and times you won't. It's consistently predictable and to say it's a matter of missing a few posts.....c'mon..... :D It depends on the person or the subject or the opinion, but it does not depend on the actual behavior. That's just not a respectable way to handle things, Hat. At the same time, you do know a ton about Suboxone and you are willing to invest a whole lot of time here on this forum. I appreciate that!! I don't want there to be this weird bias, like/don't like thing going on. It polarizes the forum. Sheesh, I wish I could magically put together a paragraph that would show you I'm trying to get through to you and not trying to be a bitch. I'm not a bitch, period. I guess all I can do it try to quit BS-ing and sincerely air this out. You have to be willing to be honest too, though, or it will not work. I am tired of playing the pretending games due to concern that if we're honest, we will get thrown out. If you say something that someone knows to be untrue and they post an email or message that proves otherwise, it will be deleted and perhaps they will be deleted. It's so old. Can we just be real? And BTW, 'real' does not equal 'rude'.

ReRaise, I personally don't see you as someone who comes on here and is negative or hostile. Nope.....that's not you. Actually, you don't seem to say anything unless you have something very insightful to say. So, I'm always interested in reading your responses.

Setmefree, I know how important your faith is to you. Unfortunately, you know as well as I do that your faith also doesn't sit well with everyone and has made people uncomfortable with you. You were singled out because of that. That's not fair. I admire the fact that you still come on and try to inspire people with your faith, because you obviously are coming from a place of genuine concern and kindness. You may not technically be a mod, but you are still a leader in my eyes because you don't compromise your integrity. You are not drinking anyone's Kool-Aid.

Tearj3rker, where are you and are you doing okay or are things still the same?

laddertipper

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 Post subject: wow!
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 8:14 am 
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this is johnboy wallnut.boy i'm glad i dont get to deep in to this forum.
probably couldent anyway! is this forum a colt,like aa.na .


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 Post subject: why did you erace
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:18 am 
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were's all the other postings???


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:46 am 
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Setmefree, ladder and Jim you are the people on this forum that I hold in the very highest regard, for your honesty, your compassion and your knowledge. But I do have to respectfully say that more than enough has been said to Hatmaker. I count no fewer than seven posts, some of them quite lengthy. Probably much of what has been posted could have been communicated privately. Being a moderator here has to be a thankless job, but I'm grateful that people are willing to give their personal time to do it.
I'm worried about tearjerker, he hasn't been back since things got sidetracked - and he said he had been using. So if you're still here tear, let us know if you are OK.

Now what is this about the forum being a colt?


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 Post subject: i dont think its a colt.
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:54 am 
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i feel for hatmaker too!!am i doing something wrong sorry?
i think hat is doing the right thing as a moderator.


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 Post subject: what??
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:17 am 
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i have P.T.S.D from life abuse of my father .i cant teype long words and good grammer
like the rest of you . is that why ladder/and the rest dont share with me.
i'll quit the forum if hat wants me to. i wish i new what the F i''''''''''''''m doing wrong?


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:17 am 
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Lillyval wrote:
Setmefree, ladder and Jim you are the people on this forum that I hold in the very highest regard, for your honesty, your compassion and your knowledge. But I do have to respectfully say that more than enough has been said to Hatmaker. I count no fewer than seven posts, some of them quite lengthy. Probably much of what has been posted could have been communicated privately. Being a moderator here has to be a thankless job, but I'm grateful that people are willing to give their personal time to do it.
I'm worried about tearjerker, he hasn't been back since things got sidetracked - and he said he had been using. So if you're still here tear, let us know if you are OK.

Now what is this about the forum being a colt?


Lillyval, I absolutely understand why you would say this and why it would seem like people are picking on Hatmaker. I wish it did not come off that way. There's a lot behind it. I'm not someone who would just call someone out and try to put them down. If I thought it could be dealt with privately, I would do it that way. I promise. I'd love to somehow resolve this. Maybe that's not a reasonable expectation, but it would be nice to be able to talk it out and put it away.

Johnboy, you cracked me up with the colt thing. I'm pretty sure you meant cult. You are not saying anything wrong!! There's nothing 'wrong' to say. Nobody needs to be tiptoeing around on here. Well, like I said, it would be nice to just resolve this stuff so it stops popping up.

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:21 am 
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Johnboy - You absolutely do not need to leave! I knew what you meant as I'm sure others did. Please stick around.

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:34 am 
Hey Johnboy. I'm really sorry that you suffered such abuse in your life from your father! I can't think of much worse than that......Parents are supposed to love and protect and you did not get that and it's terribly unfair! I'm sorry that those experiences left you with difficulties with writing and such. But don't let that stop you from participating here!
I did get your PM and I thank you for your kind words!!
The "drama" that's going on as a 'sidebar' on this thread has nothing to do with you. It has to do with things that have gone on over the course of many, many months. So don't worry about it! I, like Laddertipper, wish it could have all been dealt with and resolved privately but that has been attempted and has never come through. So I'm sorry for my part in side-tracking this thread!
Again, Johnboy, you stick around! I would love to hear more about your story, how you are doing on your Suboxone, etc. whenever you have the time! We are all glad to have you here! And no, this is not a cult! Everyone is welcome here, no matter what they believe in or don't believe in. We should all be able to speak freely about whatever it is that helps us to get better from our addiction! So welcome aboard and God bless!!


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 Post subject: johnboy
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:40 am 
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O.K.thanks hat. i'll stop crying now! :lol: ladder.i'll try to make meanings and stories more
longer if there not to boring :o i'll try not to tiptoe.


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 Post subject: Re: johnboy
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 3:19 pm 
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johnboy wrote:
O.K.thanks hat. i'll stop crying now! :lol: ladder.i'll try to make meanings and stories more
longer if there not to boring :o i'll try not to tiptoe.


OMG, you are not doing anything wrong!!!!! Seriously!!! I mean that!!!! I missed your post about your father, cause I was posting at the exact same time. Sorry about that. I would not have said you cracked me up if I read that first.....I do not care if people use proper grammar or misspell things or whatever. It's the meaning behind the words that matters, right? Please stay and be a part of this place, because you seem like a truly nice person!!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 7:52 pm 
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Something about forums brings out certain feelings in people-- myself included. Its the same as what happens when we are in our cars, in traffic-- people give each other the finger and run each other off the road... things they would never do if face to face in the grocery store!

I don't have a clue about the history of the interactions between people, to guess about who likes or doesn't like who... but allow me to say a couple things.
- The moderators are volunteers-- and 'do what they do' to keep some sense of order. It is truly a thankless 'job'-- and I'm using the term 'job' loosely, since it doesn't pay anything!
- I don't want anyone to fear being 'kicked out' for saying something offensive. Free speech should prevail-- but heated, insulting, or divisive comments will draw heated responses.
- I'm wondering if we should have an 'argument room' for threads to move to when they go 'off topic', and people feel that they have something to resolve-- that way newcomers wouldn't walk into a hornet's nest unaware (?)
- None of us know each other well enough to determine whether we like each other or hate each other. We are getting little bits of information from each other and making judgements from them... even a person's avatar generates an impression in others. Let's all assume that we are on the same side--

Thanks everyone, as always, for participating, but...
This thread may have lost its usefulness-- Let's all step away from this thread, and start over(?)


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 5:19 pm 
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I think Dr. J has a good idea, to have a place where people can hash things out while preserving then original thread. It does sound like people have some legitimate hurts that they would like to talk about.

Johnboy, I'm sorry if I teased you a bit. I think you might have been unaware that the thread went onto a second page, and if you scroll up and click on page 1 you will see all the older posts. Nothing has been deleted. Please feel free to continue posting, and share your story if you want.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 11:39 pm 
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Im truly sorry to hear that you are having such a horrible time with your recovery and life in general right now! I wish i had some wonderful words of wisdom for you,i wish i could give you this long prophetic speach that would make you see the light, but the fact is i dont, and i am sorry for that. And it is not in my nature to be one to say "I know how you feel" when i truly don't no one does i have struggled through similar demons however everyones demons are unique just as yours are unique to you alone! I can say that i am here for you if you need to talk, and honestly hope that your world takes a turn for the better. I really hope that you find your way back to happiness and sobriety if that is what is in your cards, but whatever it is that makes YOU happy I want it for you. Best of Luck sweety!You'll be in my heart and in my prayers!

Now to turn to my more aggressive and Alpha Wolf side, I feel like voicing my opinions on the previous threads and the name calling, corrections, mommy only punishes me and not my brother bullshit that has been going on in this forum. The last time i checked 2 things were true,1.) everyone on this site was a grown ass adult, 2.) freedom of speech is still is still in full effect so stating that i have to ask the question to (LT),(SMF),and (CG) who seem to me and maybe its just me and maybe its because ive only been out of high school alittle over a decade but i seem to recognize a reoccurring theme with a few of our posters who really remind me ALOT of this one group of girls who had their own lunch table in high school and used to constantly stick up for each other and no matter what anyone else said it was always stupid or wrong and they would constantly belittle, ridicule and ostracize them if they had a different opinion other than their own. Now you all remember these girls in your high school dontcha? we used to refer to them as the "Mean Girls"! I ask this question what gives any of these posters a right to belittle or ridicule any other poster for what they write or reply back? What gives you the damn right to call someone elses post "Idiocy", now do i think what they wrote was right, or very caring given your situation *tearjerker* no, but i sure as hell dont think its anyones right to call it "Idiocy" just because they disagree with it. How would you feel if you chose to voice your opinion and you found a reply to your post that called you a name or called your post foolish, youd be pretty damn pissed wouldnt you? And you would be thinking to yourself what gives this poster a right to judge what i write in my posts right? Exactly!!Just because you may not agree with what someone has to say does not automatically make it foolish, your word is not final nor is your word gospel, so why dont you chill out and let other people have an opinion of their own without belittling them for disagreeing with you or others!

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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 2:42 am 
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Hello everybody -

I posted a Poll/Question thread in Why the Anger to get everybody's thoughts about Dr. Junig's idea of having an "Argument Room" on the forum. The topic is a Sticky so it should be easy to find right at the top of the list.

Please go there and let me know what you think about this idea. Thanks!

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:13 pm 
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First, I have to point this out. You are shooting up Herion and blaming the medicine for not blocking its effect. It seems that you have figured out a way to get around Suboxone. While its good that Sub can block effects of Opiates, from what I have heard, you can still feel the effects if you use enough.

I wish you the best, but you gotta stop shooting dope. If you really want to move past chemical dependency.

It really sucks that you have this going on, sounds like you have a good support system but you may need some more help. I am not meaning this personally at all, but we can convince ourselves of some pretty crazy things and it seems like you are using the Suboxone as a scapegoat. You wouldn't have this issue at all if you were not using Heroin while on Sub.


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