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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 12:06 pm 
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Hi, I wasn't sure where to put this since there is no "what were you thinking" section. I'm really unhappy with myself right now, but I want to get back to recovery right away.

I have an important question and then I'll give a little backstory. My last Sub was 4mg about 36 hours ago. During that 36 hours I have taken 16 Percocet. How long do I need to wait after my last Percocet to restart my Suboxone? I don't feel like I got dependent on the Percs, so I shouldn't go through withdrawal right? I feel like I'm starting to go through withdrawal from Suboxone though. I do not want to go through precipitated withdrawal, I am terrified of that, so do I need to wait? I am prescribed 8mg daily (4mg twice daily)

I'm really upset with myself and sad too. My sub has been helping with my chronic pain and this week I had a lot of break through pain. My mother left a bottle of Percocet (on accident) at our house from a visit a few weeks ago. I had no idea until she told me and asked me to dispose of it (she does not know I have a problem with painkillers). My addict brain lit up like a Christmas tree. I found it, wanted to get rid of it, but just couldn't. I convinced myself it would help with my pain (which, strangely enough it did). I felt nothing but pain relief. I didn't take any more Sub because I am worried about pws- and I thought if I stopped Suboxone maybe I would feel the Percocet.

I feel awful, I've told no one, and don't want to because I've been doing so well for 1.5 months. Suboxone is really helping me, although with this slip it makes it hard for me to make that case. I don't want it taken away, and I don't want to see disappointed looks on faces of my husband, therapist, and doctor. I also don't want this to turn into a full blown relapse.

Please, any advice? Can I restart my Suboxone now?
Do I need to tell everyone about this F-up? How do I get past this?


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:03 pm 
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i'm sure someone with more experience with slips while on subs will chime in.
i'm not sure how long to wait or if you should just take your subs like you were for the past 1 1/2 months.
if it were me i wouldn't tell your doctor if you get yourself back on track unless you have a UA this week. its up to you wether you tell your husband. it depends on your relationship. you could tell your therapist. it's really good to talk things out. i discovered after only my 1st few therapy appointments why i started using and why i relapsed after 5 years sober! is your therapist required to tell your dr?

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 10:54 pm 
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Hey Tragicom,
First question, what mg of percs? 5s,10s? Really it won't matter. I dought you ve razed your tolerance above the amount of Buprenorphine you had been taking. Its only been 36 hours.
To be sure Id wait the 18 to 24 hour timeline just to be sure. Then dose as before. PW s really only come after heavy use. . You should be ok.

Im one for being honest with the people in my recovery. This includes my Dr. The choise is yours, and I've no idea how your dr runs his office or treatment but useing and lieing about it is a big no no for most places.
Keeping secrets also causes fear and other issues we are trying to get away from. Although you want the people around you to be proud of you, and im sure they are. This is Opiate addiction. Relapes happen. You had a bottle of pill left in Your home. That must of been very hard to ignore and so early in your recovrry too. Dont feel ashamed T. Nor guilty. It happens.
You ll get back on and stable in the next day. But think hard about honesty. Dr and husband. Im sure they ll understand and are there to help you. Uno?

So..id wait and let some time go by then redose. My 2 cents..

Razor..


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 12:19 am 
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Razor- I took the 5 mg Percs. About a day and a half with a total of around 80 mg of Oxy, so not a huge amount. Still makes me nervous, so I think I will wait until tomorrow to restart Sub, just in case.

I have read Dr J's suggestions for surgery and he recommends staying on Buprenorphine and getting higher doses of oxycodone. Made me wonder- if someone follows this plan, would he go through pw after a dose of opiate, followed by a dose of buprenorphine. I guess it just wouldn't be enough to cause a problem in that situation? I kept thinking about it all day and started confusing myself.

Thanks for the perspective and advice. Honesty, I think is important (at least in most situations) and for some reason can be so difficult. I'm especially prone to lies of omission- just not letting anyone know what's going on, living secretively. It is a part of my addiction I need to address. I'll give it some real thought on who I need to tell.

I'm still learning, I'm sure we all are. Good night


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:44 am 
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tragicom, I meant to post this last night so instead Good Morning to you!

All this did was show that this is a journey and that these things happen. No shame for sure. That's wasted and negative energy! Glad you're here asking for help. That speaks so well of you.

Yes, similar to what you read on staying on bup pre during and after surgery. Since your mu receptors were fully engaged at 8mg sub/day for the last 6 wks, I think you'd be far less likely to experience PWs bc sub was fully loaded and likely why it took so many tabs - 80mg over 36 hrs for any pain relief effect to occur and bup is still somewhat loaded on your receptors.

From Dr J " Most 'habits' drive tolerance up to equivalent to 100-200 mg oxycodone per day-- and on buprenorphine your tolerance is around 60 mg of oxycodone per day." So agree w razor that your tolerance wasn't raised, esp given some of the oxy was blocked by the bup already there.

I'm right in there w Razor's comments and agree honesty is powerful and healing. But then I had this weird feeling about your Dr. and remembered I don't trust him in any way. I'm concerned he'll push you to switch to probuphine, the 4 bup implants, bc 1) you can't discontinue the implant like you did the film and 2) he tried to push it on you when you were just starting and not stabilized yet and its clearly for folks stabilized for 6 mos on 8mg or LESS/ day.

I recently read the Probuphine FDA approval assessment and wowowo NO way would I consider getting these implants if I were on bup except if going to jail where there'd otherwise be none. Your arm is cut into 4 times each 6 mos to install and again remove, then reinstall, some got infections, post implant pain, fibrosis where implants had to be dug out, many needed rescue dosing, either more film or a 5th implant, which was psychologically damaging as well. I was not impressed... Oh, and still have to go in for monthly UA's bc Dr needs to still know folks are staying in recovery so when the 6 mos are up and time for another implant, the dr is willing to extract the old and install another set. ya, still have to stay in regular Dr. treatment. Maybe counseling too, IDK on that.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 9:10 am 
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I can remember back when I first got on Suboxone, the pill form...I wasn't exactly your ideal patient and story of hope and sobriety...
Many times I would take more than I should've taken through the month, and run out a week or so early, so I would take hydrocodone for a day, then Sub for a day. I would hold off on taking my last 3-4 subs, and would eat a bunch of hydrocodone 10's...then my brain would say that I felt w/d coming (like 3-4 hours after my last hydrocodone)...and I'd start the Sub again.

I did that up/down rollercoaster for about 3 months.. And when I got caught by the doctor, I was all mad, mad at myself for getting caught...mad at the meds for showing up on a drug test...
But mostly, I guess I was mad because I knew this was the turning point where I needed to decide for myself...either I clean my sh*t up now, or I am back to my stupidity again...
I chose doing things the right way..and no more playing around.

I will say this: During all that time that I was eating hydrocodone and subs...I never had PWD..
I guess I had too much Suboxone in my system to allow it to really work, but it never felt like it used to. That's part of the reason I was able to make that choice so easily. I knew what I was doing wasn't right..but at any rate...I never had any problems. I was able to switch between sub and hydro very easily...
But, I had 3/day suboxone and was out a week before I should've been...so it wasn't like I didn't have the suboxone in my system. Likely the sub was stacked in my system and just kept the hydro from working...which worked in my favor in the end.

I've been totally clean now for 9 years almost. After that slip-up...I haven't done anything like that since. And it's been a blessing.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 9:12 am 
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Hey tragicom!

Honestly, u have been on suboxone for about a month and a half then a bottle of oxycodone was just left in ur home........ very tempting. No one judges u and I'm sure at a month and a half in, everyone remembers how missing their doc was at that time. So don't be so hard on urself.

If it were me, I'd tell my doctor. I'd be afraid of failing a drug screen and getting caught, plus he'd have to understand a little bit by how u found the pills. That's just what I'd do, u do what feels right. Whatever u do decide to do, what's important is getting right bk to recovery.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 2:28 pm 
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Thanks for advice and support. It's so helpful to have knowledgeable and caring people to lean on. I went back on Sub- it was probably 15 hours after last Percocet, though after reading posts, I think I would have been fine way sooner.

Not that it really matters- I shouldn't be anywhere near Percocet, but it's also kind of nice to realize the Sub totally blocked any feelings from Percocet (except, as I said, it did seem to help pain- still trying to figure how that can happen). There's no way I'm going to get off of Suboxone for 3-4 days just so I can "feel" 80 mg of Oxycodone. It's a safety net for addictive impulsiveness. I think I learned that lesson ( hopefully it only takes once)

Pelican- thanks for remembering my whole story! You are so right about my doctor pushing Probuphine if I tell him all of this. On the other hand I don't want to go into addict lying mode as Razor and Jenn pointed out. Maybe I can tell him about the Percocet slip, but leave out the fact that I stopped Suboxone. I don't know, I'll think on it. I don't have random UAs, I just get urine done at every appointment. My next one is like 12 days away. There should be no way it should show up, but you never know, it's always a gamble if you don't tell Dr first.

But, I do not want the implant right now. It's just too new, I'd feel more comfortable if it had been used for 5-10 years with good clinical results and patient satisfaction. I hate surgical type procedures, no matter how minor and I don't want my arms cut up! I should just be able to tell him this, and I will, but I feel like we are going to continue to clash on this issue.

Jonathan- I love reading your posts. They are so raw and real. I can tell you have been through a lot and have come out the other side as a better person. Gives newer people hope, at least for me. I hope I can follow a similar path.

The addictive mind is so cunning, twisting every thought and behavior into doing whatever will keep addiction alive. It amazes and scares me simultaneously.


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