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 Post subject: Sleep
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:52 am 
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Sometimes sub makes me sleepy during the day. But I cannot sleep at a decent time if my life depended on it! I wish I could have the perfect 8 hour window of 10pm-6am, but no no no for whatever reason I can't sleep until 345 am every night. I've tried herbal teas, Ambien (works half the time, but can be addictive..), Tylenol pm and have resorted to using Dextromethorphan from cough medicine (not doing that anymore...). I'm gonna talk to my doctor and tell him I need sleep meds. The appointment is for 2 weeks from now. In the meantime what can I use to go to Sleep? I have a job and need my hours of zzz in.. also, can any of you recommend a prescription sleep med that isn't so addictive? I'm an addict and can't be taking the good stuff like Ambien or benzos for sleep


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 Post subject: Re: Sleep
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:37 am 
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Hey Frank, welcome back. I've had sleep issues of some kind for the last 10 years, mostly insomnia where I don't begin to fall asleep until 4 A.M. In that time I've tried quite a few different medications including over the counter herbal remedies. If I had my choice of prescription medication for sleep I'd probably pick Lunesta. I loved the way that stuff helped me drift off into happy land. It worked better than Ambien in my opinion and I always felt like a million bucks the following morning. But as with all good things, it can be habit-forming and after a while it can be difficult to get sleep without it. But for short term use of about a week, maybe two at the most, I would totally recommend it.

Rather than cover all of the herbal options like Valerian root capsules or melatonin, let me just skip to the chase... drum roll please.... say hello to Trazodone. It's an antidepressant that's often used off label for sleep because of it's ability to make you drowsy. They say it's not habit-forming and they're mostly right. I took 300mg's a night for 6 years and eventually stopped because I couldn't get 'natural' sleep. But it's not addictive physically and most doctors seem pretty willing to write a script for it because it's effective and non-narcotic.

They may start you out at 50mg's depending on your size and health. My tip is to actually be in bed 15-20 minutes after you take it. I can't tell you how many times I would stay up past the drowsy stage of the medicine and then not end up getting to sleep. Believe me when I say it can come on fast when you first start taking it and you're not used to it. There may be many here familiar with it's effects because it's routinely used as a sleeping aid in drug detox and rehab facilities.

That should comfort you because it lets you know that it's a safe medication to use while on Subs. But please do yourself a favor and skip the alcohol. It will increase the more unpleasant side effects such as dizziness and pounding heart with a side order of anxiety. At least it did to me before I gave up drinking. Besides, alcohol will mess up your sleep and make you get up to urinate just when you're beginning to enjoy that dream. I hate it when that happens.

Once we've been labeled as 'addicts' by our doctors, I feel that we lose access to a wide range of medications. Benzos like Xanax and Ativan come to mind. But you could probably put in most of the great sleeping pills and other tranquilizers as well. There are good reasons for this (most of the time) and I try to accept that maybe it's in my best interest to not use those medications. But there are many nights when I would love to have a Lunesta or Ambien to turn to. There is a time and a place for all medicines and when your sleep problems become a chronic condition, then I feel you should be treated with whatever is most effective and safe considering your current health concerns.

- OM

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 Post subject: Re: Sleep
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:59 am 
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have you tried melatonin?
I take large amounts to sleep (20mg!)
its just a supplement and you really can't take too much.

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 Post subject: Re: Sleep
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:36 pm 
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Hey Sister - I'm reluctant to take large doses of melatonin because you could actually be doing more harm than good. I'm also reluctant to tell that to somebody who seems to be getting a benefit from it, so please take the following information as just one perspective and opinion on this powerful hormone (it's not actually a sleeping pill).

I don't always agree with everything Dr. Oz reports on his show. But in this instance, I think he's on to something. The video is only a little over 4 minutes long and I think it would be worth everyone's time to watch it if you're concerned about using melatonin:

http://www.doctoroz.com/article/fact-sheet-melatonin

A sleep specialist described similar findings to me years ago. But regardless of what they say, I think melatonin is a safe and effective alternative to traditional sleeping pills and tranquilizers when used in the correct dosage. Unfortunately, dosage seems to be the sticking point between doctors and consumers. I was told that anything over a milligram or two was entirely too much. You'll frequently find doses of 3mg, 5mg and 10mg in most pharmacies or grocery stores. And yet I can tell you from personal experience that I 'need' at least 5-10mg to fall asleep. It's like anything else, you need to inform yourself of what you're putting into your body and then decide based on risk vs reward.

- OM

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 Post subject: Re: Sleep
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:55 pm 
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OpenMind wrote:
Hey Sister - I'm reluctant to take large doses of melatonin because you could actually be doing more harm than good. I'm also reluctant to tell that to somebody who seems to be getting a benefit from it, so please take the following information as just one perspective and opinion on this powerful hormone (it's not actually a sleeping pill).

I don't always agree with everything Dr. Oz reports on his show. But in this instance, I think he's on to something. The video is only a little over 4 minutes long and I think it would be worth everyone's time to watch it if you're concerned about using melatonin:

http://www.doctoroz.com/article/fact-sheet-melatonin

A sleep specialist described similar findings to me years ago. But regardless of what they say, I think melatonin is a safe and effective alternative to traditional sleeping pills and tranquilizers when used in the correct dosage. Unfortunately, dosage seems to be the sticking point between doctors and consumers. I was told that anything over a milligram or two was entirely too much. You'll frequently find doses of 3mg, 5mg and 10mg in most pharmacies or grocery stores. And yet I can tell you from personal experience that I 'need' at least 5-10mg to fall asleep. It's like anything else, you need to inform yourself of what you're putting into your body and then decide based on risk vs reward.

- OM

i did watch the video. idk why anyone would take more when they wake up in the middle of the night. i don't think melatonin has ever been marketed like that. i'm comfortable with my dose and my dr. is aware of how much i take. plus i can fall asleep without it.

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 Post subject: Re: Sleep
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:20 pm 
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SisterMorphine wrote:
plus i can fall asleep without it.


I'm glad to hear that. That means you're still getting the benefits without the side effects. I had to take a break from using it myself because after a while, just like with trazodone, I couldn't get to sleep without it. That meant if I was away from home and didn't have any with me, I wouldn't sleep. And that feeling sucks when for whatever reason you can't get any sleep without a pill every night.

- OM

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 Post subject: Re: Sleep
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:09 pm 
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Melatonin gives me a hangover. Have you tried the banana thing? Cut off the two ends of unpeeled banana, boil it in water for ten minutes. Drink the banana tea 45 minutes before bed. And a hot bath!

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 Post subject: Re: Sleep
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:12 am 
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pugmommy wrote:
Melatonin gives me a hangover. Have you tried the banana thing? Cut off the two ends of unpeeled banana, boil it in water for ten minutes. Drink the banana tea 45 minutes before bed. And a hot bath!

whoa that banana thing. i've never heard that before.

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 Post subject: Re: Sleep
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:07 pm 
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Oh lord yes, Banana peal is one of the health's natural remedies for may different things. Mood booster being one that comes to mind. Yes Sister morphine and to the original poster, try it.


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 Post subject: Re: Sleep
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:06 pm 
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It may be possible to train yourself to sleep at more normal hours. Look up sleep hygiene. It is very important not to spend time on line before bedtime. You could also try sleep consolidation. Pick a bed time and a wake up time and stick to it no matter what. Make sure that you are in bed only during those times and also that you spend 30 minutes less that you normally sleep in bed. You will be tired and eventually you will sleep, and your sleep will not be interrupted and will be of good quality. I have needed to do this several times as my sleep patterns will get out of sync gradually.


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 Post subject: Re: Sleep
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:07 pm 
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Bamagurl22 wrote:
Oh lord yes, Banana peal is one of the health's natural remedies for may different things. Mood booster being one that comes to mind. Yes Sister morphine and to the original poster, try it.


How interesting, I've never heard about that tea with a banana. I'll give anything natural a chance at least once. Thanks for the tip!!

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 Post subject: Re: Sleep
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:21 pm 
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Bamagurl22 wrote:
Oh lord yes, Banana peal is one of the health's natural remedies for may different things. Mood booster being one that comes to mind. Yes Sister morphine and to the original poster, try it.

my great grandma would scrape the inside of the peel and eat all the white stringy stuff. she said thats where all the vitamins were.

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 Post subject: Re: Sleep
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Whatever happened to warm milk? Or Tryptophan? There was a health issue with the tryptophan years ago but that's what I used when I quit drinking many years ago. It seemed to work pretty good back then. That, and reading before bed always gets my eyes tired.

Not getting enough rest is very hard on the mind and body. If your brain doesn't get a good reboot you pay the price with lousy moods, fatigue, memory problems, etc. The list goes on and on.

In time it should resolve itself as long as you didn't have a sleep disorder before the drugs. My brother suffers terribly from lack of sleep. He keeps trying to convince his doctor to let him continue to take Subutex. After a DUI, they won't even prescribe Ambien to him or he violates his probation. When he takes his Bupe he at least gets 6 hours of good sleep.

I hope it comes back sooner rather than later Frank.

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