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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:38 am 
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Okay, so after having a day of really mild to nearly no symptoms, I am not able to sleep. Go figure. I think I'll be okay skipping one night of sleep. Well, of course I'll be okay. I used to do this before finals all the time. I just stress so much over it, KWIM? Insomnia is so odd. You can be very tired and right when you are just about out, you think "Oh, I am NEARLY there!!!" And, BAM, you're awake, just like that. It's so windy here that is sounds like the world is ending outside. Dang, now I know how Romeo feels when he can't sleep. I'm thinking it's actually worse to go to sleep anyway if you're only going to get an hour or two. Isn't it better to just push through?

I'm talking to myself.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:20 am 
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Ladder insomnia sucks.... ever see the movie Fight Club when Ed Norton talks about insomnia.. your never really awake and your never really asleep.............

When your colonidine comes it will help you sleep better ............hang tough girl... you got dune buggies to ride ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:29 am 
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I feel for you, hon...I had it again 3 nights ago....had to get up and go ahead and take my 8 mgs Sub at 3:30 am instead of 6:30 am....in about an hour, I had gone to sleep like a baby. These pesky little receptors sure are vocal, aren't they?!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:18 am 
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Hey Ladder,

In my opinion, it is NOT better to just push through. For me, I'll take an hour or two if that's all my mind was willing to give me. The thing with trying to push through is that you may not sleep again the next night and then you really start to feel it. I'm not saying that you're not going to sleep tomorrow, I'm just trying to relate my personal experience during my wd to you. Take whatever sleep you can get is my new motto. :D

I've also found that when I have trouble sleeping, say after 1/2 and hour to an hour, I get up, grab a snack (potato chips, Yum!) and stay up and watch something completely boring on TV for 20 minutes or so and try to go back to bed again. Sometimes it would take up to 2 or 3 of these "getting up" deals before I finally went to sleep.....mostly after the first one I would go back to la-la land. Eating releases 'natural opiates' and I think this is why the snack helps?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:05 pm 
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Ill chime in here, as I've had similar issues. Today is day 15 off of subs so ill start with that positive! But the sleep thing comes n goes with me. Some nights I'm out like a baby n some nites I'm up every hour. Stay away from caffeine ALL day, that's just one suggestion. But a positive way I try n look at nites with little to no sleep is that my brain is still workin out some kinks n this should b a GOOD sign that your body IS trying to heal!!! KEEP YOUR HEAD UP u are doing awesome


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:07 pm 
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Girl, insomnia is my best friend. It frustrates me, it makes me crazy and I can't seem to find a cure.

For a while my anti-depressant made me sleepy. No more. Don't want to take Ambien but when I did, I was up in 3 hrs. waste of time.

Hope it's not a permanent thing with you now. You are doing great. I do love you so much You will be fine. I promise.

Keep it up.

Queenie


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:25 pm 
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I hate insomnia. I actually got really bored and decided to get back into bed and then I fell asleep, right before I had to get up! That's the part I hate. I know it's best to get some sleep, even if it's just a teeny bit, but it's so tough when you just nod off and then it's time to start the day again. Blech. I should have read this earlier. I'm sitting here drinking coffee.... :D

I'm sorry you guys have this too, but man I love not feeling like I'm the only one!!! The silver lining is that tonight I'll probably sleep really well, right?

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:35 pm 
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I will tell u this from experience, DON'T think about it. If you sleep u sleep if you don't u don't, but don't worry yourself about it. Try some valerian root I got a bogo free at kroger n it was only $5, really calms u down at nite


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:36 pm 
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ladder, tonight you may or may not sleep...sorry, I can't say for sure...BUT I can say with absolute confidence that you WILL sleep eventually :)

I'm with romeo on this one...I'm not pushing thru anything anymore past a day or so. I will take my time and take another sliver rather than deal with anymore discomfort than I have to. That's just my humble opinion but in my case...the discomfort causes anxiety and I want to have as little of that as possible!

Hon, I know you are getting a "teenie-weenie" bit aggitated here because you are so close! Yet still seems so far! But from an outsider's viewpoint (mine LOL)....you are absolutely doing awesomely well! I can't believe how low in dosage you are now! You have come soooooo far...your on the last leg of the race...just it seems like the longest leg. Probably is.

Try not to be discouraged...not our bubbly laddertipper! You ARE doing this...and I know it seems drawn out and all but when I look at where you are vs. where you were, I am soooooo impressed!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:49 pm 
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ClearAqua wrote:
ladder, tonight you may or may not sleep...sorry, I can't say for sure...BUT I can say with absolute confidence that you WILL sleep eventually :)

I'm with romeo on this one...I'm not pushing thru anything anymore past a day or so. I will take my time and take another sliver rather than deal with anymore discomfort than I have to. That's just my humble opinion but in my case...the discomfort causes anxiety and I want to have as little of that as possible!

Hon, I know you are getting a "teenie-weenie" bit aggitated here because you are so close! Yet still seems so far! But from an outsider's viewpoint (mine LOL)....you are absolutely doing awesomely well! I can't believe how low in dosage you are now! You have come soooooo far...your on the last leg of the race...just it seems like the longest leg. Probably is.

Try not to be discouraged...not our bubbly laddertipper! You ARE doing this...and I know it seems drawn out and all but when I look at where you are vs. where you were, I am soooooo impressed!


That was what I had thought to say! LOL Ladder- just wanted to chime in and say, that I know how frustrating it is, and me personally when I'm not sleeping my brain starts thinking all sorts of things I should be doing, or bills I didn't pay etc etc Drives me bonkers!! I agree that when your Clonodine comes in you will probably not have anymore sleep issues....The clonodine is my new best friend for this whole taper journey. It could just be my brain telling me it helps, that has happend to me, and I also find I get symptoms from any medication b/c of my crazy mind, however, since taking it, then upping my dose to 2x a day since going lower in taper, I have not had any sleep troubles. Sooo with all that said, hang in there, you are so strong, and hopefully this too shall pass!!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:32 pm 
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hey ladder, I havent seen an update from you for what seems lik awhile(maybe a week). I hope your taper is going well. So did you get your clonodine yet? I take 2 pills (.1mg x 2) 30 min before bed and I cant keep my eyes open by minute 20....and I have insomnia too.


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 Post subject: insomnia, valerian root
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:02 am 
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Hey ladder,

Insomnia sucks and something about it makes me feel super lonely when its happening! I do like Romeo, get up, get out of bed and out of bedroom, read or whatever, then try again...eating actually makes blood flow go to your stomach and start WORKING so I'd be careful what you eat...try things with tryptophan...like milk, turkey...natural sleepiness altho sometimes that post prandial thing after eating will help you sleep.

The clonodine will be really helpful. For me it only takes 1-.1mg pill to knock me on my ass. So, look forward to that! LOL.

Valarian-it can come up as a positive benzo so whoever is taking it...be careful or tell you dr. FYI

Hope you got some sleep, ladder...I HATE insomnia. I'm having difficult, too, lately...trying to get down to 4mg on Sub and not doing all that well. kinda depressed, can't sleep, feel off. The thing is part of me always wonders how much is me and how much I think I'm feeling that way...we can't be up and perky every single day of our lives you know? and I expect that I think..so the minute I feel a bit off I'm thinking it is my dose. (only because I'm tapering).

I screwed myself and I have to get serious about my taper schedule....I ended up taking more than 4mg today and now I'm pissed I did that. I know it just messes me up. I hate feeling down and off so much and I think my problem is I have not commited to doing the actual taper...I'm just playing around in a sense. So I need to commit and the goal will be go down 10% every 5 days if I can. That should be doable and I'll be less likely to mess it up.

Ok, sorry, jacked the thread....!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:39 am 
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China dont beat yourself up for having to take more one day be kind to yourself............you were just listening to your body :)

Hang tough

Lisa


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:53 pm 
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yes i should have added that fact : Valerian can show up as benzo if you are takin it excessively, it contains one of the active ingredients in Valium. Sorry if i failed to mention that in my post but i use it only if i cant sleep, fact of the matter for me is that i dont wanna be dependent on anything whether it is legal or non-habit forming, thats just the outlook i have and i believe it is the reason i jumped from 4mg sub to zero overnite!!!! DAY 16!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what what, lol sorry bout that :D


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:01 pm 
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You guys all rock!! I seriously love you people. I've got friends now all over the country because of this forum.

I did sleep last night. YAY!

L i v i n, I'm still at 1. I had a couple good days, and even the mornings were good. This morning was not so good, but I think it goes like that. You go forward a little and then back and forward a little more. I'm still hoping I get to a place where 1 mg is absolutely easy and I have no symptoms. I'm still of the mind that it would be stupid to go down when I have symptoms. Symptoms are the same. Anxiety and legs and chills and weird smell and sneezing. This morning, it was bad for some reason. It's that nasty anxiety that blasts you right out of your bed in the morning. What a roller coaster this is, huh? It's just such a different thing than it used to be at the higher doses. I'm going to chill here at 1 mg and once I am completely fine, I'm doing your taper method, L i v i n.

I don't have my Clonidine yet. I should have gotten the fast shipping. It really has to be here any day. It's funny, cause when I ordered it, I decided to go with the standard shipping because I figured that I was absolutely going to be fine in the next two or three days, so I wouldn't need it anyway until my next drop, which I wasn't going to do until I had a break from symptoms. Bad idea. I should have coughed up the extra money for the fast shipping.

I am drinking Valerian tea at night and taking Melatonin. The Melatonin seems to work very well sometimes. Even when it doesn't work, it doesn't send me through a loop like Ambien or something. You don't want to take Ambien and then not sleep. You will feel like you are in some other dimension. I took the Melatonin the other night and couldn't sleep, but it just wore off, so I kinda like that.

((HUGS)) all around everybody!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:59 pm 
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hey ladder, I am really looking forward to seeing how much the clonodine helps you. I cant imagine doing my taper without it. There were so many times when I was suffering minor w/d(especially at night) that would have forced me to take extra sub, and was able to take clonodine instead which completely eliminated them(again, if they were minor). Even some major symtoms were substantially reduced. I definitely agree with you in terms of staying where you are until your symptoms go away, but I have one question....Are these symptoms coming on as you get close to dose time or are they occuring all day or at random times? I ask this because if they are just happening near dose time those symptoms most likely are just due to you needing to dose and not due to the fact that your still adjusting. I dont recall how long youve been on 1mg but I do remember also having some trouble around that dose. yeah I remember having a tough time making a move from 1/2 of a 2 mg pill to 1/4th. But like many other points in my taper, one day I just became fully adjusted. I dont remember how long exactly and I was constantly taking extra(not sticking to 1mg everyday) which most likely also caused me problems.

Anyway, I hope you adjust soon and these symptoms subside. I know they will subside because they always do. Oh, one other thing and I know I said this before but I definitely noticed less symptoms when I became adjusted to a once daily dose because I was not getting w/d within 5 or 6 hours. Instead, I dosed at night and didnt start feeling w/d until maybe 20-24 hours later. Of course it does take about a week to adjust to this but once you do I believe you will have a much easier time. Good luck ladder, it was nice to hear from you. I hope your taper works out as well as mine.

p.s. I read that valarian root may be bad to take with clonodine since they both suppress the CNS. Just be careful not to take to much of either, especially together.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:24 pm 
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ladderlady,

I'm glad you got some sleep!! Sleepless nights Suck...yes, Suck with a capital S.

I can't hardly wait until your Clonidine comes in and you take that first dose. I remember taking my first Clonidine and about an hour or so later I remember thinking to myself....I wish I would have got some of this Clonidine stuff a LOT sooner!! It doesn't eliminate your wd symptoms completely, but it sure knocks them down a peg or two!

How is your friend doing? Has she been seeing any improvements, how long has she been off of Suboxone now?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:07 am 
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laddertipper wrote:
You don't want to take Ambien and then not sleep. You will feel like you are in some other dimension.


Ha. Thats exactly why I take two or three and force myself to stay up. I like the other dimension. The only problem is the fridge might be empty in the morning.

I agree with the clonidine. My sub doc started prescribing it along with the sub. I'll take .3 or .4 at night and it does make me drowsy. Now I've resorted to a clonidine/benedryl/nyquil cocktail if I really need to sleep and my ambien is gone.

I'm not sure I'll ever have a normal sleep cycle after my opiate addiction.

I know you are all thinking "typical druggie behavior", but there is nothing worse than staring at the ceiling for hours knowing you have to get up for work in a couple hours. I know I need to get some exercise in the evenings which would help but it is so hard to be motivated while on sub coming off an opiate addiction.

Jimmy


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:44 am 
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Holy crap....

So, I was in my room and my husband was sitting on the bed playing guitar; my 3-year old tried to climb up on my bed, which is against the rules. No jumping on the bed. I pulled her off and sternly warned her. She's an 'active' child and I have to watch her like a hawk.

So, I walked back to the kitchen and heard a big smack/thump, my husband cursing, and my daughter kinda doing that big inhale thing they do before they scream. So, I started calling "what happened?!" And I ran to the hall and my husband was carrying her and I didn't want to look. He was cursing like it was BAD. My other daughter is yelling "she hit her head so hard! She hit her head on the bed!" I said "I don't want to look!" I thought her neck was broken for sure. I thought she had a head injury and she was going to quit breathing. But I did look anyway and he was carrying her like you carry a little baby and I just saw blood and more blood and it was going splat, splat on the travertine and he put her on the kitchen table and her whole mouth was bloody and is was dripping all over her, so it was hard to see where it was coming from. So, I wanted to run out of the house, but I had to look at it with the flashlight.

OMG, she punched big holes through her lip and her teeth were.are bleeding. Lip started swelling and now it's huge. She had gone ahead up on the bed RIGHT after I said 'no' and immediately slipped and whacked her face on the bed, like within 30 seconds of me walking away, and with my husband right there. Called doctor. He can't tell me if her tooth will die or not. Pretty sure she's gonna get at least one black tooth from this...which is a weird fear I have. I always worry about teeth too much. Don't know why. I have to take her in to doc tomorrow. Iced it. Gave her Tylenol. Got her stable. Wanted to hug her and kill her at the same time.

So, then I just felt like something was wrong with me. You know when you get an fear/adrenaline rush and then it goes away and you are just totally messed up? Well, it's like that but just way, way worse. I mean, kids get hurt. It's terrifying, but I don't normally shake this bad. I tried to call my friend but I couldn't talk and then I barfed. Barfed up my Klonopin and my last part of Sub...great. That will make tomorrow morning nice. I don't even care about that. I just feel so weird, like I can't calm down and I want to cry but it won't come out and it makes me feel like I need to barf more. I'm furious with my daughter. I know. She's three. But I TOLD HER SO MANY TIMES!!! I'm so mad, that I don't even want her to feel better. She just asked if her tooth is going to get black and fall out and I just said 'maybe'. She started breaking, like she was going to cry again, but I won't tell her it's going to be okay. I want her to be sorry. She could have landed on her head!! Then, I feel so sorry for feeling this way cause she's THREE! I'm such a bad mom sometimes. I'm upstairs cause I'm too angry and I don't want to be around the kids at all. My other daughter was standing there and saw her climb up and didn't stop her, even thought she heard me JUST SAY not to get up there!! My husband was right there too, but she climbed up behind him. My legs are vibrating. I feel really bad. I think this is a serious panic attack. I can't remember any time I had one this bad. I can't breathe, but I'm typing, so that means I can. K, I think it's getting better, probably cause I wrote it down. See, this is why sometimes I think it's a very awful thing to have a child(ren), because something happens so fast and for a while, your heart stops and you don't know what you're going to see when you look...if it's going to be a super horrible thing or just an 'owie' that will get better. And they don't realize how careful they have to be with themselves. And if something happens to them, then your life is over too. You cannot live without them.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:02 am 
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Ladder,

Wow, sorry to hear that about you child. Bottom line, she is OK. She has a busted up lip and some damage to her tooth/teeth, but she is alive and OK.

She's 3 years old bud, it's her job not to listen to you.

Good thinking to jump on the forum when you recognized that your feelings were overwhelming you. Type it out and that helps to switch your brain over from emotional thinking back to a more logical thinking state.

I hope you and your daughter are OK.

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