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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:25 am 
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The first one: I have had NO sex drive for the past year I have been on subs (except for the one time I relapsed, I then got my sex drive right back). Is this normal? I think I have heard it before on this forum. I feel bad for my husband. I seriously don't ever even think about it! sucks!

The second one: It is giving me horrible teeth! I have always had issues with my teeth (even though I take excellent care of them) b/c when I was two years old I had to have a trach b/c my throat closed up from epiglottitis. And they had to put me on doxycycline as a two year old and the doc told my mom a side effect was that I may always have weak teeth. And I do. But my teeth problems have gotten a lot worse since starting the sub. Mostly sensitivity. Just wondering if anyone else has these issues. I really wish it came in a pill you could swallow, so it didn't have to sit in my mouth. I'm assuming I wouldn't have teeth probs then.


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:26 am 
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But I would rather feel normal from the subs than stop taking it. Do you think there is anything I can do about my sex drive though? Like an anti depressant or something?


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:38 am 
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Hi RTL,

It seems the low sex drive is just as prevalent in women as it is in men. I know I have the same problem and know of a couple others that do as well. (But this, too, is just anecdotal evidence.) I honestly have no idea what can be done about it. Some people report less side effects after stabilizing on the very lowest dosage possible. But that's not an option for everyone. As for anti-depressants, well, many of them also cause a low sex drive, so I can't imagine they would help. And yes, it does suck!

As for the teeth problems, they've been discussed on this forum before. Many teeth problems come from having a dry mouth. From what I've read from Dr. Junig, that's about the only thing that suboxone can be given blame for - a dry mouth. There's no evidence to suggest it has any effect on our teeth. But that's just what a recall from having read prior posts from the good doctor. They do make mouthwash that's specifically for a dry mouth. Maybe that will help?

Keep in mind Suboxone is an opiate, albeit a partial one, and as far as I know and have read it has basically the same side effects as full agonist opiates - nothing unique from Suboxone.

I'm sorry I can't give you more concrete answers, this is the best I've got and it's based on my opinion and my memory from what I've read in the past. Maybe for the low sex drive we just need to get creative! :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:49 am 
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Thanks hatmaker. When I told my sub dr about the teeth probs he said he had never heard that. So, Im glad you have heard of that before.

I guess getting creative for my sex drive is a good idea....lol.....now to figure out how to be creative....hmmmm. lol


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 Post subject: side effects
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 10:22 am 
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[font=Arial]

[code]Hi rtl,

I am sorry to hear that you are having side effects, although I think they are both very common for sub users. I also noticed a really dry mouth, and my last visit to the dentist was not good, so I make sure I drink a ton of water throughout the day. I always carry a bottle of water, and sip it all day and try to get anywhere from 6 to 8 bottles a day. It was hard to do at first, but I have noticed a lot of good things since I started drinking so much water. my teeth are better, breath is better, skin is a HUGE improvement, and the best thing is just from adding the water and no other changes I have lost like a pound a week (seriously). Oh, and also it really helped with my constipation problems. Who knew water would have such a great effect. I have read a million times to drink water, but until I actually forced myself to do it, had no idea how good it was for you.

As for the sex drive, yeah, my husband is not very happy either. i was a little surprised by this because when I was taking oxycontin had a great sex drive, and when I relapsed a few times, it came back. This is not good because my husband actually likes it when I relapse!!!! Anyway, I am trying to make an extra effort even if I don't feel like it. Usually once I get started it's okay, but still not near as good as it used to be. I went to the health food store and found something called Sunshine in a Bottle, and it has a lot of natural things plus Vitamin D, that helps with mood. I have noticed a difference since I started taking it, but still no great orgasms. I have actually been really researching this problem, because it's definately causing some problems with hubby, so I will let you know if I find anything.

I guess there are side effects for everything, but it is still better than the alternative, going back to oxycontin. I honestly think I would be dead by now, as my last two relapses my tolerance was so high that I was taking 10 80's of oxycontin, and even that was not enough. I went through more money in a day than I was making in a week, pretty sad.

I am so grateful that I found everyone here, I felt so alone before. I had found another forum, but they were so against sub for maintenance, so I kept trying to taper and quit and then would relapse within a week. I had made some really good friends there, but had to leave because I always felt so guilty about being on sub, and that was not good.

thanks for posting this,
Ginger[/font]


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 10:31 am 
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Hey ginger -

I've just got to ask - Sunshine in a Bottle?? And you say it helps? Do you know what else is in it...I'm curious now. Maybe I'll do some research too. Then we can all share what we find out.

RTL - I'm so glad you posted this, because alot of the men here have talked about this from their point of view, but I don't recall us women bringing it up before now. I honestly feel better just knowing I'm not the only one who's having this problem. I look forward to more posts and possibly more ideas. At least we know we're in this together! :D

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 Post subject: sunshine
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 11:33 am 
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[/code][code][code]
:)
Hi again,
This is what I bought (I hope it is okay to post this). I know that I don't get enough sun, especially when I was using, I isolated so much and sometimes would not even get dressed all weekend, just hang out in my bedroon, it was disgusting. I knew I was lacking viatmins, so thought I would try this, and I also bought the Vitamin b12 strips that dissolve in your mouth, and I find they really help when I get tired around 3:00 pm.

Anyway, I think it costs about $20.00 but so far I think it is worth it. I don't think you should take it if you are already on antidepressants because I think it has 5htp and tyrosine in it.

Hope this is helpful.
[code]

Sunshine in a Bottle. Natural sunlight is essential in producing mood-enhancing hormones and vitamin D. Sunshine in a Bottle® should be taken year-round to help Vitamin D requirements and help improve mood, treat mild depression, and minimize fatigue caused by lack of sleep from travel, insomnia, and shift work. Disturbed sleep, as well as low vitamin D from lack of sunlight, can upset the production of serotonin, the “happy hormone,” leading to mild depression, S.A.D., and other mood disorders, with symptoms that include carbohydrate cravings, excessive eating, disrupted sleep patterns, weight gain, insomnia, fibromyalgia, PMS, and low libido. Ingredients besides vitamin D have been added to Sunshine in a Bottle® to support the production of serotonin and help maintain existing levels in the body. Natural sunlight can not only improve our mood and produce vitamin D, but it can also increase the risk of skin cancer. To reduce this risk, the American Academy of Dermatology recommends using supplements as a source of vitamin D instead of natural sunlight or tanning beds.
- Provides nutrient benefits of sun risk-free - Improves mood, fights S.A.D. and mild depression
- Meets daily recommended intake for vitamin D
- Added key vitamin D co-factors
- Helps convert Vitamin D to active hormone form

Each Capsule Contains:
Each caplet contains/ Maximum daily dosage: Vitamin D (as cholecalciferol) (12.5 mcg) 500 IU/ 1,000 IU; Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) 250 mg / 500 mg; Zinc (zinc citrate) 5 mg / 10 mg; Copper (copper citrate) 0.5 mg/ 1 mg; Manganese (manganese citrate) 1 mg / 2 mg; Niacin (inositol hexaniacinate) 5 mg/ 10 mg; Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine HCl) 5 mg / 10 mg Magnesium (magnesium citrate) 37.5 mg/ 75 mg; Inositol (inositol, inositol hexaniacinate) 15 mg/ 30 mg; 5-HTP (Griffonia simplicifolia seed extract) 25 mg/ 50 mg; L-Tyrosine 50 mg / 100 mg; Omega-3 fatty acids (4.5% EPA, 3% DHA) 50 mg/ 100 mg; Rhodiola rosea root 3:1 extract (1% rosavin) 50 mg/ 300 mg*; St. John`s wort 4:1 extract (aerial parts) (0.3% hypericin) 50 mg/ 400 mg*; Ginkgo Biloba leaf 50:1 extract (24% ginkgo flavone glycosides, 6% terpene lactones) 7.5 mg/ 750 mg*; *crude herb equivalent daily dose.
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 11:51 am 
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Thanks SO much, Ginger for taking the time you did to post this for us. You're right - for me I can't take it because I'm already on an SSRI - can't risk serotonin syndrome - I've heard that's pretty dangerous.

However, I'm confident that your post will help others. I know you didn't have to go to all the trouble to post that comprehensive information, so thanks again. This is really helpful.

Now if we can just get "CREATIVE" with our libido! :wink:

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 1:14 pm 
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Yes Ginger thank you for the info. My husband has those b12 things that dissolve in your mouth. I think I will try them. As for the sunshine in the bottle, that sounds great. My dr wants me taking vit D anyway so I think I'll look into it! Thanks! Great info!


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 7:59 pm 
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I think I can help here.......

Here is what I was thinking and I think you ladies will really buy into this. You could PM me and I could talk dirty to you guys....you know real sexy like..........we could even go back and forth and you could dirty talk to me......we would be helping each other as we always do in the spirit of this forum. I know my magic words have talked myself into alot of things and I have to tell you I think this is the best idea I have come up with yet.....I am here to help you ladies through this.....it will be tough for me but our recovery is so important....We could do Saturday nite chats with topics like "Sex in Sobriety" .

Help is hard to find....I am just glad I am here to offer this up to help us all get better....all those in favor......just say NO when I ask and help is on it's way.

Thanks suboxone for helping me think so much clearer...........

Jim


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:44 pm 
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ReRaise, You are TOO funny! Why did I know one of the men would say that? One of the things I like about this forum is everyone's sense of humor. Thanks for the laugh.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 9:44 am 
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LOL! :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 10:03 am 
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When I first started on suboxone at 16mg daily, I had no sex drive and I was constipated worse than I had ever been. Some laxatives helped with the constipation, but the sex drive was just non-existent.

As I slowly tapered my dose from 16mg down to 1mg, I think I remember noticing that my sex drive started coming back when I hit the 6mg range.

Right now, I'm on a maintenance dose of 4mg, and while I am no Don Juan, my wife and I do have sex at least a few times each month, and I'm no spring chicken either.

:wink:


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:16 pm 
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Re Raise,

How thoughtful of you to want to assist us women to help us boost our libido. I am not quite sure that your "magic talk" will be a cure to us women, but it is really thoughtful of you to want to "help us ladies through this as we always do in the spirit of this forum". lol lol lol I think you may really have your work cut out for you, at least in my case, I think my libido has sunk to levels that it may turn in to a full time job for you. But, again, I thank you for your more than generous offer.

If not anything else, I got a really good chuckle from your offer, as I do from most of your posts. I am happy to hear that you have a great sense of humour, as I sometimes wonder if I've lost that, too. When I was in active addiction, in the end at least, I had no sense of humour and didn't appreciate anyone else's either. Even today it's rare that I even smile, but actually had an audible chuckle reading your post. So, thanks for that, it felt really good to laugh.

Unfortunately, my husband heard me laugh and wanted to know what I read here that made me laugh like that. I was a little hesitant to tell him, not sure if he would find another man offering to talk dirty to me funny. BUT, he did, he laughed too, and said, PLEASE, he would accept any help offered. Poor hubby must really be getting desperate for some sexual attention!

So, again thanks for your generous offer, but don't be surprised if our husbands sign us all up for your Saturday night "Sex in Sobriety" therapy.

Meet you back here 8:00 pm EST, my husband is looking for instant results so hope you are up for this!!! lol

Seriously though, thanks for the laugh, I'd forgotten what it was like to really laugh, it's been far too long. I really need to get a life!!!

Catch you at 8,
Ginger :D :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:35 pm 
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You guys are awesome!


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:54 pm 
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Hey, I have a web cam and microphone if I can be of any assistance.

fffffgggggrrrrrhhhhhh, hot, sexy, text talk. That is so cyber 90s. :)

Hey, really, I'm just sayin.


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 8:12 pm 
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Maybe we should start a new section for 'buprenorphine cyber-sex'-- it would probably increase traffic!

I don't have an answer for the sex drive issue. I have checked testosterone levels in a few men on HDB (high dose buprenorphine) and they all were in the normal range, but in the bottom half of the normal range. There is a very wide range of what is considered normal, so it is always difficult (I almost said 'always hard', but knowing this crowd I'll avoid that word) to know how to interpret the test results. In a couple of the people with lower levels I prescribe testosterone or methly-testosterone (from a compounding pharmacy). The people who take it claim that they feel much better on it, including an improved sex drive. There are some risks to taking testosterone, though-- prostate cancer, ulcers, heart disease, and ANGER. I don't know if it works for women or not. I could see it being a real problem... the woman gets a big sex drive, but can't find a man who is interested in looking past her mustache to 'get it on'!

As for teeth, consider whether your mouth is too dry; saliva is important to buffer the mouth and rinse away bacteria. If the HDB is giving you cottonmouth, ask your dentist about the products that lubricate the mouth and increase saliva.

BTW, a company in Florida named 'nanotherapeutics' is working on a form of buprenorphine that can be swallowed. They are still in early testing , and looking for investors.


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 8:20 pm 
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thanks Doc

Just for the record I don't mind Angry sex........... I know us guys hijacked(oops) this thread from the ladies but as you recall we were candid about our problems too......Hopefully someone will have an answer. I have heard the interest may not be there but once you get going everything is ok.....for that session. So....you may just have to try and see what happens..I do feel for the hubbys though......

Jim


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 10:36 pm 
This discussion is awesome! I wanted to add that in my case, after coming off full-agonist opiates cold-turkey, my libido went absolutely c..r...a...z...y!! Not that I ever minded sex while on drugs. It just wasn't as easily 'satisfying' if you know what I mean. But after getting off the drugs....sex was nearly immediately satisfying!
On to Suboxone.....same basic thing. Don't mind the act, but difficult to reach the 'goal.' Well, with being down to doses now under 2mg/day....guess what? Things are beginning to change for the better in that regard. There's got to be a relationship between dose and these issues. I can certainly see (feel) improvements as my dose gets lower and lower. No complaints from the husband either!! Now if we could get his SSRI libido side effects fixed!! Geeezzz.....it's always something! I guess in the meantime, I'll just have to join in the bupe cyber-sex section with you guys! Ha Ha!


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 Post subject: What A Great Forum......
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 9:44 am 
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This place is Awesome !!!! I am willing to bet they don't have any threads like this over at SubSucks..lol
Could Dr."J" be turning into Dr. Ruth before our eyes????????? LOL

It's a great day to be "Clean & Sober" :D
Stay safe Everyone....

God Bless
TW

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