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Do I have Legal Options?
Poll ended at Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:26 pm
Yes 20%  20%  [ 1 ]
No 80%  80%  [ 4 ]
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:26 pm 
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I have been on Suboxone for nearly 9 years, successfully. It's worked for me and without it, I would not survive.

Today I found out that my Dr. was no longer willing to see me and her reasoning behind it made absolutely no sense. I feel it was just an excuse to discharge me, ultimately leaving me without Suboxone and at risk for relapse and serious withdrawal symptoms.

Two years ago I attempted suicide. It was a very suicide attempt that left me seriously injured. Hours before the suicide attempt I called the very agency that has just let me go in an attempt to get inpatient treatment, a last ditched desperate attempt to save my own life. They told me that my circumstances "were not life threatening" and they refused to take me or have me be seen. It could be easily argued that their over-the-phone-analysis was dead wrong.

It's been almost two years since then. Because of my injuries I was placed on pain killers while in the hospital. When I was released the burden of trying to do the impossible - find a Suboxone Dr. I had a Dr. who I worked with for more then 5 years who was retiring and unable to take patients, after trying desperately and failing repeately to locate a Sub. provider on my own, I wrote him a letter filled with disparity.

He was able to locate a Dr that would take me. One phone call and I had an appointment with a new provider. I guess the saying is true "It's not what you know, but who you know" or more like "If you're a Dr you have a lot of pull!"

Anyway, I went in to see this Dr. She had no qualms about writing me a prescription of Suboxone, she wrote me a script each month for 30 days and I would meet with her on the following month. At our first meeting she did say that I should be in some type of other treatment other then her. I told her I was in the process of getting a therapist and attending outside meetings, which I did. She acknowledged that this was acceptable.


However, this last meeting I had with her is where everything seemed to fall apart.

I told her that I was moving out of state. My mom lives where I'm moving as does most of my immediate and close family members. Another reason for me relocating is that the Mental Health & Addiction programs and treatment availability in Maine is not sufficient. It plays a huge part in my life and quite frankly my very survival. I've come to terms with the fact that although Maine has agencies that deal with Mental Health, they are over populated, underfunded and even in spite of all of that, politicians like Governor Lepage continue to make budget cuts and eliminate access to these programs, cutting off vulnerable people who desperately need access to Mental Health & Addiction treatment programs.

When I told the Dr this, she responded with "Why are you moving?" I felt she had not heard anything I said about my family living there and my need to be closer to my supports. "It's fast paced, but I'm sure you already know that". She said. She was VERY brash in the way she spoke to me. I told her I understood that (though I feel the place I'm moving to is much slower-paced then where I live now, with less temptations and risks).

I told her that it was going to take quite a bit of effort, research and time to figure out how to transfer my benefits here to where I was moving and to also locate a Suboxone Dr. Where I'm moving the availability of Suboxone providers seems to out-do here by a long run, however, I do have state-issued insurance that I have to transfer to down there, and in order to do that I must be living down there first. This is going to take time and I will need a supply of Suboxone so I do not go into withdrawals.

She said she would have to consult her supervisor, to see if she could give me an extended prescription of Suboxone. I said that's fine. She then said "We don't really know you well enough" I was surprised when she said this as I've been seeing her and in their program for several months. "We don't really know your character". At this point I brought up the fact that throughout the 8 years I've been on Suboxone, while having regular drug testing I've never tested positive for the drugs in which Suboxone is prescribed and that I saw the same Dr. for 5 + years, had a great rapport with him and that he would give me a reference of character if needed. At this point she told me that I was "beating a dead horse".

She ended up appearing to get sick of me and told me we would write a 30 day prescription from the time I leave, leading me to believe she was writing me a prescription that would get me through my transition of moving until I was able to locate a Dr. down there.

However, when I got home I realized that I had a 30 day prescription only. She knew I was flying out on the 11th, and the medication she gave me would have only lasted me until the 8th. This would have left me suddenly stopping my medication, with no taper, sick and in withdrawals two days before I got on the plane to leave.

So I called her office and spoke to the nurse, I explained everything from the brash way the Dr. acted to me to the fact she made me think I would have an extended supply. The nurse originally agreed with me saying it should not be a problem, that since I have not moved yet, that I could come in and meet with her and get another prescription.

Well it didn't work that way today - the nurse called me back and said "The Dr. is not willing to see you again, you told her you were moving" I then said "Well, my housing situation did not go through, I'm not moving right away, I don't have any Suboxone" Then she tried to say "Oh, and she wrote down that you haven't been going to groups, that's parts part of the program, she said you'll have to find another Dr."

Wow, just wow!!

She knows it's impossible to find a Suboxone Dr in the state of Maine!

And her excuse for letting me go for not going to any groups doesn't work....

Because she just gave me a 30 day prescription of Suboxone...

If I was in violation of the program guidelines then I wouldn't have gotten my Suboxone prescription.

I'm still in Maine, I've done nothing wrong, she's discharged me for no reason and I am going to be so sick, so hurting, I'm not even going to be able to travel or pack. I'm so at the end of my rope and this is dangerous.

I need to know what my legal options on this are. It seems unethical to stop a patiently suddenly, without a taper, for no plausible reason. I didn't relapse, I never failed a drug test, I was still in the system as a patient.

This seems to be a personal agenda on her part. I believe it would fall under the laws of negligence or malpractice or maybe some other laws.

Anyone have any suggestions? Please let me know. :(


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:35 am 
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Well, first I just wana say Im sorry that you were treated that way!!!!

second, I dont know of any 'legal options'
I know they cant just 'cut you off' but if she gave you a thirty day Rx, she should have told you THEN, you were 'dismissed' or whatever.
I mean, WHEN did you find that out, today? did they send a letter or anything?

I hate hearing these stories, it just makes me worry!! you know, that your 'doctor' has that much power over your life.

If it were me, Id be looking high and low for a new doctor. I mean EVERYWHERE.

Im sure you've already thought of that. But that seems like your only option.

Theres a few sites where you can search for one.

https://www.suboxone.com/patients/opioi ... octor.aspx

www.NAABT.org

those are the two I know of.

I wish you the best, I really do. The road of redemption, is not an easy one. But worth every battle, in my opinion.
You can always file a complaint about how you were treated , (being treated) from this doctor. Hell, Id even go for a letter to the editor style format, in the local paper.
You dont have to divulge ALL the info, just enough for them to get the jist.

Hope I helped a little.
[marq=right]GOOD LUCK[/marq]

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:34 am 
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My first thoughts on the topic:

You're moving and its none of her damn business.

Finding a sub doc should be the first thing on the list when moving. Maybe have it sorted before you set sail.

Doesn't have to be too much more complicated than that right?


sorry to hear she was rude to you. Nothing pisses me off more than catching attitude from my doc's office.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:38 am 
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My second thoughts:

If you do obtain legal counsel and find that you indeed do have a case.

Stick It To Em.



Ryan


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:02 am 
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Hello there, I am so sorry this is happening to you. The bad news is, any doctor has the right to refuse to treat ANY patient, ANY time. I too found this out the hard way. I spoke to attorney, and they said there was not a single thing they did that was LEGALLY wrong. MORALLY, they couldn't have been more wrong. Unfortunately, many doctors who are prescribing suboxone are in it for the money, and really couldnt care less who they cut off and leave withdrawling. My asshole doctor is a great example. Not all of them are like this, however from what I've read on this forum, they don't seem hard to find.

Next thing, I would call the doctor that you originally called, who hooked you up with this one. The one that you said could give you a character reference if needed. Surely, he would have some advice for you, if not be able to get you in with another doc, even if it is primary care, that could prescribe for you.

Your recovery and sobriety are of top priority right now. They are to you too, and I can tell that by reading your post. Do whatever you have to do, to protect that at all costs. Think of the lengths we would go to, to obtain our drug of choice. It may be a distant memory for you, but I'm sure you would have driven a hundred miles for drugs if you are anything like me. I don't know your history during your addiction, so I am not saying that you did that, just that I did.

I wish you the best of luck, and would like to hear how this whole mess turns out. I am pulling for you and for things to work out in your favor. Try to stay focused on you right now, and in the mean time, we are here for you if you need to talk, vent, or whatever! Take care.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:48 pm 
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Sorry to hear this. Unfortunately, the doctor can do that.

So, whats your daily dose?

This far in, you prolly know that you can take as little as .25mg/day to avoid withdrawal. If I were you, I'd be tapering down effective yesterday.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:32 pm 
Hey, I'm terribly sorry to hear this shit. This angers me to no end.

This seems like another tale of politics fuckin the innocent. I'm no anarchist but the state controls the amount of patients on suboxone. Just like methadone. The Dr. was probably reaching the limit of patients and had to let go of some people. Her first choice seemed to be - people on it the longest. That is what I'm thinking because you did jack.

It's really not right for a "Dr" to prescribe a medicine like Suboxone when they would do something as immoral and umm FUCKIN STUPID as this. A 9 year suboxone user who attempted suicide 2 years ago. Is she on crack, no seriously....

Keep your head in the game man. Figure out a game plan and go for it. Prepare yourself in whatever you do.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Hate that for you !

I am not positive, but is it legal for doctors to even give and extra prescription or multilple refills for Suboxone?

I would have thought that you could have got the doctor to give you a referral to a doctor where you had intended to move.

Some doctors do not recommend prescribing suboxone to patients with a history of attempted suicide, I read on Google an article about this, it's title was "9 reasons suboxone may not be right for you". Atempted suicide is sometimes apparently viewed as a mental condition.

Good luck, I am hoping by now you have things back in order with a new doctor?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:31 pm 
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boxer wrote:
Hate that for you !

I am not positive, but is it legal for doctors to even give and extra prescription or multilple refills for Suboxone?

I would have thought that you could have got the doctor to give you a referral to a doctor where you had intended to move.

Some doctors do not recommend prescribing suboxone to patients with a history of attempted suicide, I read on Google an article about this, it's title was "9 reasons suboxone may not be right for you". Atempted suicide is sometimes apparently viewed as a mental condition.

Good luck, I am hoping by now you have things back in order with a new doctor?


There is nothing illegal about prescribing extra sub or even refilling a prescription across state lines. My sub doctor just told me that if one of his patients is moving out of state, he will still prescribe for them up to 6 months because he knows how hard it is to find a new sub doctor. He said that the DEA has never given him a problem about this. I do know that he goes above and beyond what the DEA requires in terms of documentation, etc. But he says that prescribing across state lines is not something that the DEA gets all upset about.

I hope you have gotten everything figured out and that your move went well. Your doctor sounds like a piece of work! Doctors shouldn't go into the profession if they can so easily wash their hands of a patient.

Amy

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 Post subject: I feel for u
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:59 pm 
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I feel for you. Ive been on subs for over 5 years myself. Just today, my doctors office calls and tells me Im being removed from the program because theyve reached their limit on patients. She tells me I have 2 weeks medicine called in and good luck.. I was and am still outraged that they can even think that is alright. In the 5 years since my introduction, they have no once suggested or commented about me tapering down my dose. Not one time. Now they think I can just quit taking them in 2 weeks. Ive tried pleading with the desk lady, and I plan to call and talk to the actual doctor this afternoon. I havent actually spoken or seen the doctor in the last couple years. He is never in the office. I will have to refresh him memory about how he told me suboxone withdrawals are only mild, and nothing comparable to full opiates. Ive found out the hard way, that was a lie. Im also extremely concerned that there is no legalities surrounding this medication and its abrupt end of supply. I think these doctors should be more thoroughly examined before being allowed to write the prescriptions and patients should be better informed on the medicine they are prescribing them. When I stated taking sub, there werent many people on them, and the studies were only a month or a couple months long before it was allowed by FDA. This is just a racket for many doctors and the drug companies. Its plain as day now, and its only a matter of time I think before we start seeing malpractice lawsuits.


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 Post subject: Illegal?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:44 pm 
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OFT,

That really is the pits but I doubt if it's illegal. Upstanding? No. Ethical? No again. I bet all that Dr. wants is to be able to charge more money for induction. If he was trying to help other addicts get into his patient limit then he needs to design an effective taper and stopping program for his existing patients. That didn't happen to you. Plus, no one should be forced off Sub without knowing well in advance.

I'm just guessing here but it still doesn't sound right. Yes, call and talk to him personally. Better yet, go in and see him face to face and tell him how upset you are being thrown to the wolves. You can try talking to an attorney but I doubt if any of them even know what Suboxone therapy is.

If I were you I'd be on the phone finding a new doctor to prescribe it. Then when you are stable again you can decide what you want to do with this one. In other words, take care of yourself first.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:14 pm 
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I dont think there is a legal position here that would be able to do anything. Although, if they are in breech of their own contracts that might be the only thing that you can go with. They usually give you something that you have to sign that is basically their rules, how things are run in their clinic. The ones that I have been to which is only two but they had a list of rules that I had to sign. If there is nothing in those rules about the situation that you are in and they still refused you medication then wouldnt that be a breech of contract? Medical Negligence? I mean these people are basically nothing but brilliant con artists from what I have seen, they say one thing but when it comes down to it their motive is always something else.
The only leg that I think that you might have to stand on would be if they broke their own rules and this could be classified as medical negligence. I wish that we had some of the doctors in our area that some of the others have posted about, the doctors around here could give a shit less if you are in withdrawals, if you have enough to get you through a move whatever the case may be.
The doctor that I see now told me well if this new treatment comes through, the under skin thing you only have to come in once every six months. Well there is no law that says that you cant get refills of suboxone so why couldnt you do that for me now? He says that he wants to see you once a month to see how things are going......
Its ridiculous how doctors can treat people and get away with it because they think that they have the best lawyers around and they make so much damn money off us, hell they can buy people off. IF you do get a lawyer to sue them and there is a case found, please stick it to them as hard as possible. Drain them dry, it serves them right for doing this to you. If it had been my mother, she would have threatened to their face of getting a lawyer but shes just crazy that way. She thinks if she does that, it will get something done.Most of the time it just pisses people off more and they wont fool with you.
This just sounds to me like medical negligence. You called them and said that your life was basically in danger of yourself, around here by law they are required to call the ambulance and have them come and take you to the ER. If they get out here and you refuse to go or whatever,then they have every right to stop treatment. Report this to your newstations around as well. I find that if you get the word of mouth out there about the way this doctor is treating people, it might hurt the pocketbook that way some. Never really know....
My mother in law threatened to just get up and walk off and not tell anyone where she was going, we called the hospital because she has mental problems. We told them what was going on and they said, well we can try to come out and get her. The only way that we can force her to go is if she has tried to commit suicide or if she is hurting herself or someone else. If we get there and she is basically just walking down the street, there is nothing that can be done.
I really hope that you get something done here no matter what it might be. If its getting another doctor and getting your medication or if its sticking it to them. Just keep us informed, I would like to see how all of this pans out.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:53 pm 
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I have been a member for only a few months and have had just a few posts. However, when I read this post I knew exactly how you feel. I am in the middle of a very similar situation.
History: I have been on Suboxone for almost 3 years but have been on a maintenance program for only 2 years. The Dr I was seeing is a pompous, arrogant, condescending person. He is a psychiatrist but his specialty is Geriatrics, not addiction medication. He is a greedy little man trying to line his pockets with "easy money". I got stuck with him because all of the other providers in my area had reached their quota of patients or did not accept my insurance.

After a few months of seeing him he hired another Dr. in his office. She specialized in Family medicine and this was her first experience dealing with addictions. She had flawlessly memorized the pharmacology but was clueless in how to apply it in the real world.

My goal had been to taper my dosage until I was completely off the sub. Unfortunately, she had no knowledge on how to establish a tapering schedule or how to monitor the process. She told me to do "whatever works for you".

Without going into a lengthy debacle of the nightmare that I've been thru the past few weeks, a couple of weeks ago she "fired" me. This is how I learned about it. I had an appointment scheduled to see her, I went to the appointment and was told that I was not on her schedule for that day. I thought I had made a mistake so asked when my apt was supposed to be for. The receptionist told me that I had been removed from her schedule. When I questioned more about it I was t that she had "fired" me. She would call my pharmacy for a month's refill but was giving me the legally required 30 day notice that she would no longer be my Dr.

I knew why she had "fired" me. but it was not a valid, legitimate reason. When I asked why she had "fired" me she could only stammer something about trust issues. I have always been totally compliant with my therapy and was never a "no show". I had discovered some untruths related to my treatment and I had called her out on them. That is when she concocted the reason to fire me.

In the next 30 days I tried everything I could to find another suboxone provider. Again, they had either met their quota or did not accept my insurance. I finally found someone last week but he is not available until Sept. 1st. In the meantime I have been trying to stretch a 30 day supply into 60 days. I have been taking random doses at random times. It is now playing havoc with my body & mind.

Question: Can she legally fire me in the middle of ongoing therapy and refuse to prescribe the medication? This is the main legal issue that I have. I don't know if the history behind this is a legal issue, but it is absolutely unprofessional and unethical.

I am frustrated & confused. The schedule I have been trying to keep is messing me up physically, emotionally and mentally. My way of thinking is that she cannot drop me in the middle of an ongoing and continued therapy, a therapy that is necessary for me to keep on a regular basis. I hope I have some recourses in resolving this, but I don't know where to turn for answers and advice.

aaaarrrrgggghhhhh!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:59 pm 
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It's totally understandable that a patient who is "fired" for "no good reason" thinks about contracts and malpractice claims, etc. This is wasted energy that will get you absolutely nowhere and the stress of it will burn up your Sub faster than if you're being calm about it.

If you have that 30-day supply, the very first thing to do is cut down your usage to make those pills or films last as long as possible. And do whatever else you can to lower your stress level. If you used to do yoga or meditate or run or whatever, well now's the time to start doing it again!

It won't kill you if you go 24 hours without a dose. Forget about once-daily dosing immediately and start taking just what you need and no more. But if you're taking other things like Klonopin or other anticonvulsants, don't cut back on those at the same time you're cutting back on the Sub because being under stress from benzo WDs will almost surely exacerbate any opioid WDs.

Network! Think of all the doctors who have given you good care in the past and reach out to them even if they're not listed as having a waiver #. It's a fact that some Sub doctors choose not to be listed in the directory. If you deal with a neighborhood pharmacy or even a chain, ask the pharmacist if they can suggest anyone. They fill the scrips regardless of whether a doctor is listed in the public directory. Call your state, county, or city health department and ask for the Suboxone coordinator, or whatever they call the drug-abuse treatment dept., because they often help find care for low-income people without insurance and they may even have a Sub doctor they subsidize who is not listed in directory but takes those low-income patients, maybe on walk-in basis. Maybe call or go in to talk to a local in-patient detox facility. And don't count on the phone exclusively like in asking your pharmacy for help. They can be much more helpful if they see you're in a bind and standing in front of them.

And then as a last resort there are methadone clinics which now pretty much always will have a licensed Sub prescriber.

Good Luck to all in this situation. #1 is cut your dose immediately because a 30-day supply should last you at least 60 days with minimal discomfort. #2 is find an alternative provider.

Feeling anger is not doing you any good whatsoever and will be a total waste of energy because doctors can discharge a patient at any time for any reason with your only valid claim being for a 30-day supply of the vital meds they've been giving you. Unless being discharged for criminal activity, you're entitled to 30 days of meds from the day they discharge you, at a minimum. Anything less than that could be considered malpractice and they know it. Anything more than that is at their discretion, so do what you need to do.

P.S. If you have absolutely no Suboxone left and are dopesick with no relief in sight, tramadol is a synthetic analgesic opioid that is not a DEA controlled substance. I'm not recommending it, just mentioning it.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:18 pm 
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^ Great post Trampy. Lot's of good info in there.

With one exception, at least in my state, Tramadol is now a controlled substance. I know it wasn't always...and I'm not sure exactly when the change took place or if it's the same in all states.

I hope you get in with that new doctor soon Luna-C!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:58 am 
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Sorry to hear you're situation. Things like this have happened to me since i've been on suboxone, with bs excuses from the doc or nurses. It all comes down to they can do what they want. So hang in there and find a new doc, do whatever it takes. As for tramadol, its fine for a few days to hold you over, but no more than that. Tramadol is one of the reasons im in this recovery now (among others). Its non addictive wonders are bs and you can get horrible withdrawals from it. And no its not illegal to get scripts across state lines nor multiple refills for subox. My doc gives me refills for 3 months. Hope you hang in there brada! Dont give up!


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