It is currently Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:51 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Should I begin tapering?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:55 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:09 pm
Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg
Hello everyone! I haven't updated everyone on here in a while; so here's the lowdown:
I was addicted to opiates (blues) for two years. I was an IV drug user. I had dabbled with subs when I was still using just to get through the day when I was broke. Luckily, all of that is behind me thanks to suboxone.

I have been on subs for almost 7 months now, with no relapse at all, not like I could even feel a blue if I had a weak moment anyhow.
I take 2mg when I wake up, and 2mg when I go to bed. Thus, 4mg a day. I take the strips, not the pills (thank god).

I know this is up to debate, but I'd like some help.
Should I begin tapering? 7 months - 4mg a day. I don't think I will have too much issue with going down to 3mg a day.

I do not want to live on subs forever. It gives me anxiety to think that one day I could go to the pharmacy and not get my script for whatever reason. Kinda makes life feel like a bit of a balancing act. I am so afraid of withdrawal- there is nothing I am scared of more in this world than going back into withdrawals, mainly my fear being the restless legs and insomnia.

Since getting clean I have gotten a job and begun my career, so I am taking cosmetology classes thrice a week. I am almost always working or in school, so I can't have my tapering/jumping affect my studies, or my work. I have a perfect attendance record and the highest grade in my class.

I feel so conflicted. I no longer live the life of an addict, and I have gotten my life together. Just the idea of dependence scares me. Sometimes I will get random cravings that can drive me crazy. I can't watch Addicted, or any TV shows that show people shooting up. I was clicking through the channels last week and saw a couple shooting up heroin on the show 'Addicted'. I began craving like crazy. I have had to take an extra dose on very rare days where I am feeling in need.
So I am ready.. and then again maybe I am not. I don't think anyone could ever be 100% ready. I wish there was some way to get off subs and still be able to sleep through the nights and get up for school the next days.

Help!

_________________
~My Total Time Clean Counter~
Clean thanks to Suboxone since June 20, 2014
Down to 4mg a day since Feb, 2016!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:36 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:48 pm
Posts: 1313
Hey Visa,
Short answer, no. I dont think you should. As I read your post you seem to have a lot of good things happening in life.
Why would you risk it?
7 months isnt loug enough. The relapse rate for under a year is in the 90% range.
A few things you said stood out to me that indicated you arent ready. Do you have other support? I see a coin at the bottem of your post, aa? Are you still there? Its important to have something in place...imo.

If you want to taper, sure you could do that. See how it gos. As they say the real work starts at 2 mgs.so you could start at 3 mgs. It ll help sjow you just where your at today.
Life IS balancing act. No doubt. Sub or no sub. Worring about losing your script is real, i get that, but if you follow the rules it shouldnt e an issue. From what im reading here you are doing Great things in your life Visa. Moving forward is what is all about. Fear not the wd until it comes. If it comes.
And one more thing, maybe the biggest, your an opiate addict and these Cravings that pop up are dangerous. There
right there waiting for you. With sub, they cant work. You know what i mean. So, from one haircutter to another, id give it more time, Icdo not worry today. 4 years this weds and Im busier than ever...

Just my take on it...keep moving forward Visa....!!!Razor


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:04 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 9:01 am
Posts: 641
Location: Toronto
Hi VB, congrats on the progress you've made.

Whether to start tapering or not is a tough call. You've given some negative reasons for wanting to get off Subs -- not wanting to have a script rejected by a pharmacy. What about positive reasons, i.e. you simply want to be done with drugs once and for all? Relapse rates for addicts are very, very high, and I think recovery doesn't work in the long term until we are truly ready to quit using, deep in our hearts, no matter how difficult getting clean might be.

FWIW, I got off Subs in June. When I describe the experience, I say that it was brutal at times, but also totally amazing, seeing the world thru drug-free eyes for the first time in years. Life isn't all rainbows coming out my ass these days, but it's really good on the whole, and my sense is that it will keep getting better -- none of that purposelessness and depression that was such a constant companion during my years of drug dependence.

Most importantly, I'm not getting any cravings whatsoever. I can see drug scenes on film, I can be with people getting sloshed (e.g. Christmas dinners!), and it doesn't affect me.

But I knew I was ready to be completely drug free when I started my Subs taper, and I was also 'willing to go to any lengths' to work a recovery program that makes a drug free life possible. Are you at this point in your life too?

-- ji

_________________
"Past and future veil God from our sight; burn both of them with fire."
-- Rumi, Sufi poet and teacher


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:16 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:49 pm
Posts: 517
Hi Visa

You have gotten two very good responses to your question. I just want to add that it concerns me that you get cravings. Suboxone for me takes away the cravings & desire BUT even at my dose there have been times i have thought back to being numb (a craving for me) when my life got pretty hard. We sometimes forget how much suboxone protects us until we stop.

I have similar concerns about my doctor retiring or even worse getting into an accident. What would i do then? See, i can make myself crazy if i worry about things out of my control. There is only one pharmacy that stocks suboxone in my area, i worry about that also. I have to pull myself out of that place and get back to "now", sometimes easier said than done :shock:

I also want to tell you that i have seen people on anti depressants do well and decide to stop because they are doing well....not realizing it was the medication that helped them. They go back on the medication.

There is no one here who can answer your question. Only you will know when the time is right.

As Johnny said " But I knew I was ready to be completely drug free when I started my Subs taper, and I was also 'willing to go to any lengths' to work a recovery program that makes a drug free life possible. Are you at this point in your life too?"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:22 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:09 pm
Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg
Well, I think I am losing my doctor. Im pretty sure I came up for weed on my last drug test. It's hilarious that they think weed is bad when I am on suboxone because I've been hooked on opiates.
Im not worried about relapsing at all. I dont know a single person that has blues anymore. They stopped selling them and I moved out of town to a new place, so no- relapsing is not a worry of mine.

Giving me advice that its okay to be on subs for 4 years is horrid advice, actually. There's no way in hell I want to be on these for more than a year. It makes no sense to stay on subs for that long. That's just continued dependency because you dont want to get off of them.
I only have 2 months of suboxone left. And after that I will be out, because Im sure my doctor will try dropping me so I wont get anymore. Going to have to do a rapid taper. Main issue is that I dose twice a day. And 3mgs from 4 is hard because doing just 1 mg in the day and 2 a night makes it to where you can never get used to it due to the uneven dose.

I need tapering advice.

_________________
~My Total Time Clean Counter~
Clean thanks to Suboxone since June 20, 2014
Down to 4mg a day since Feb, 2016!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:38 pm 
Offline
3 Months or More
3 Months or More

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:21 pm
Posts: 95
You don't really need to consider switching to single dosing. But I wold recommend going down by around 30-40% at your current stage. Once you get lower, try to get closer to 15-20%. Seeing as you have to keep this short, once you're below 1MG drop by around .20 MG until .5 and then go down by .1 if you even chose to go that low. Going slower will mean when you really need the extra time to stabilize at lower doses, you'll end up finding it to be even harder than going from 4 to 3MG. I definitely recommend taking the bigger steps now, while its easier.

I've jumped from 1MG and was on suboxone longer than you in the past, and it was pretty difficult for me, but you might find it a bit easier.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:50 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:49 pm
Posts: 517
Visa

Do you take sub films or pills? With the film there is a cutting guide on this site you can use. Pills, you can crush them and divide them into what ever dose you want.

There is another site that has lots of tapering advice. Subsux..have you been to that site?

Since your January post have you gone down at all?

There is also tapering advice on threads here.

For it to be suggested that maybe you stay on sub is not horrid advice. We have seen many people die. There is a thread from a parent on this forum...have you read that? I think it's something like "4th try on sub"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:52 pm 
Offline
3 Months or More
3 Months or More

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:21 pm
Posts: 95
I disagree about crushing pills. Unless you measure height / length and width then translate that into your dose, its going to be neigh impossible to guesstimate at lower doses how much you're actually taking. I'd actually messed with this for months.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:41 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:09 pm
Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg
Well, I just called my doctor and the ladies at the front desk said they don't know why they called me, but that there are no notes and they will see me on my next visit.
So either, no one put the notes in about my drug test - or they didn't mean to call me.

So, going off what they're saying, I guess I am keeping my doctor. I'll just have to prepare better for the next drug test in 3 months.

I suppose I will wait and see if I get another call, or we will see when I call to get a refill Feb. 27th.

I do still need to taper. I am still currently taking 4 mg a day. 2mg when I wake up, and 2mg before I go to bed.
So, the main taper questions I have are:
1) I'm at 4mg, so that means I should go down to 3mg?
1.2) If so, which of the two daily doses do I cut? How should I decide that?
2) Now that I am apparently not on a time restraint, how long should I be on 3mg when I taper down again, I'm assuming, to 2mg?

I think I am going to postpone tapering until after my birthday, if I can.

Sorry if I lashed out at anyone for telling me I don't need to taper, or that they are afraid I will relapse. I'm just not going to be on this shit for years like some are. Nor am I worried about relapsing at this point in my journey. I simply know in my heart of hearts that it is not possible. I have moved away and I have been clean for 230 days now, I am simply not where I was back then. The only issue I am dealing with now is the chemical dependence on suboxone. That is why I cannot wait to be done with it! I'm just afraid of the anxiety, insomnia, restless leg, discomfort, and sadness that comes with jumping off. I could take it for a day or two, but if it's not over by day 5 or 6, I don't see how I am going to be strong enough to go through that without wanting to just get back on my suboxone.

_________________
~My Total Time Clean Counter~
Clean thanks to Suboxone since June 20, 2014
Down to 4mg a day since Feb, 2016!


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:06 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:02 pm
Posts: 1342
Location: West Tennessee
Visa,

While I am very happy that you feel that you are in a better place now, and it is a very good thing you don't have access to your original dealer, you need to open your eyes a bit more about your vulnerability. In all honesty the clean time you have put in as of now is no more than a blink of an eye in the big scheme of things. Saying that you feel great and strong while still on a pretty good size dose of suboxone is a given. Of course you don't feel at risk of relapse right now, you are still taking a daily dose of opiates. Trust me when I tell you that you will feel VERY different when you discontinue the use of bupe.

I would never try to discourage someone from stopping maintenance treatment if they feel they are ready. But, I also think you should go into it with your eyes wide open to the hurdles you are going to face. Once that safety net is removed, not having access to a current dealer isn't going to be enough to stop you from using again. Your addiction is very cunning, and believe me when I say it will come up with a way to find drugs again.

I'm not trying to discourage you from tapering, Visa. I just think you need to put in some more time learning the truth about what you will face when you quit. It doesn't sound like you really get it yet. You can disagree and get mad at me if you want to, but a little humility is in order here.

I just finished reading an article on the SuboxoneTalkzone about the relapse rate of patients using naltrexone. This treatment blocks the effects of opiates, similar to suboxone, but without stimulating opiate receptors at all. Meaning, the people using it can't get high on anything while using it. They are already completely free of opiates and are not dependent on anything at all when they discontinue it's use. But guess what? The relapse rate of individuals using this treatment is 22 times higher than those in buprenorphine treatment, and the rates of death are more than twice that of people actively using heroin. Despite the fact that they have not taken any kind of opiate during their months of treatment, and no longer have any physical dependence to opiates, the first thing most patients do when they get off of it is go use.

I'm not saying that this will be the fate of every person quitting bupe, but you have to at least entertain the idea that the statements you made in your post are not accurate. Saying "the only issue I am dealing with now is the chemical dependence on Suboxone" just isn't true.

Despite all of this, I would encourage you to start tapering. If you truly are only dealing with the chemical dependence then you should have no trouble at all dropping down to 1mg twice per day. Most people report NO adverse effects physically until they get below 2mg. At that point you should slow your taper a bit and begin dropping by about 25% each time.

Q

_________________
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. ~ Eleanor Roosevelt


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:09 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:09 pm
Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg
qhorsegal2 wrote:
Visa,

While I am very happy that you feel that you are in a better place now, and it is a very good thing you don't have access to your original dealer, you need to open your eyes a bit more about your vulnerability. In all honesty the clean time you have put in as of now is no more than a blink of an eye in the big scheme of things. Saying that you feel great and strong while still on a pretty good size dose of suboxone is a given. Of course you don't feel at risk of relapse right now, you are still taking a daily dose of opiates. Trust me when I tell you that you will feel VERY different when you discontinue the use of bupe.

I would never try to discourage someone from stopping maintenance treatment if they feel they are ready. But, I also think you should go into it with your eyes wide open to the hurdles you are going to face. Once that safety net is removed, not having access to a current dealer isn't going to be enough to stop you from using again. Your addiction is very cunning, and believe me when I say it will come up with a way to find drugs again.

I'm not trying to discourage you from tapering, Visa. I just think you need to put in some more time learning the truth about what you will face when you quit. It doesn't sound like you really get it yet. You can disagree and get mad at me if you want to, but a little humility is in order here.

I just finished reading an article on the SuboxoneTalkzone about the relapse rate of patients using naltrexone. This treatment blocks the effects of opiates, similar to suboxone, but without stimulating opiate receptors at all. Meaning, the people using it can't get high on anything while using it. They are already completely free of opiates and are not dependent on anything at all when they discontinue it's use. But guess what? The relapse rate of individuals using this treatment is 22 times higher than those in buprenorphine treatment, and the rates of death are more than twice that of people actively using heroin. Despite the fact that they have not taken any kind of opiate during their months of treatment, and no longer have any physical dependence to opiates, the first thing most patients do when they get off of it is go use.

I'm not saying that this will be the fate of every person quitting bupe, but you have to at least entertain the idea that the statements you made in your post are not accurate. Saying "the only issue I am dealing with now is the chemical dependence on Suboxone" just isn't true.

Despite all of this, I would encourage you to start tapering. If you truly are only dealing with the chemical dependence then you should have no trouble at all dropping down to 1mg twice per day. Most people report NO adverse effects physically until they get below 2mg. At that point you should slow your taper a bit and begin dropping by about 25% each time.

Q


I know you don't know me, and thank you for taking so much time to type that up, however, you very obviously have misjudged what I think. I am not new to this. I don't think you take into account my age, either.
You also don't understand what I have gone through in the last 8 months either.
If I wanted to use again, I already would have. The truth is, I completely understand the risk. However, it has been 8 months. 8 months is a very long time for being only 20 years old. I was a stupid 18 year old who got a chemical dependence to opiates.
The idea of using again disgusts me, honestly. And again, no I can't get any drugs around here. I've lived in the same town my entire life, and I have moved very far away from there now.
I'm afraid of the withdrawal from getting off the suboxone, and I will want to relapse and use the subs again during the pain. If I fail, Im back on subs again.

Again, I know you dont know me, but I know me. If I wasnt ready I would just want to be on the subs. But I AM READY to finally be free from the physical dependence o the suboxone. I am not worried about getting back on pills not because I am ignorant to the risks, but because I have gone through a complete transformation and I finally have a support system, unlike before. I am 100% confident that I will never do a blue, my life has completely changed. I started a new career that I love, I am no longer around the toxic family that drove me to using, I no longer have any way to contact the toxic friends I had back in my hometime. So am I worried about relapsing on the pills? No, because I know it would have already happened. I am worried about relapsing and taking the suboxone again if the pain becomes to much when I try to get off of them. But if I did make it through, that would be the proudest moment of my entire life. And I will live just fine with my natural herb. Just gotta get through this taper.
I finally have a life that I love. A life worth fighting for. I live a 100% different life than I did when I was using. Suboxone has saved me from the dope sickness in order to get my life together. So, yes, it will be very hard to get off the suboxone because I like it. However, I cannot stay on it forever. And what I have been saying is, if I was to get clean, and get cravings, I would "relapse" by using suboxone again. And then I would be back to where I am now. Thus, tapering off the subs soon will only make the pain easier compared to waiting for 3 years. Its not happening. I have been on suboxone long enough, any longer and it will only make the struggle much harder. The $40 pills that last for 2 hours that I cannot find are not what I am worrying about. Sorry, but that's just my facts, and my truth.

I am ready to move on, and I honestly don't need to convince you that I am because you don't know me, nor have you seen who I was and who I am now. My doctor knows im ready, my therapist knows im ready, my group knows im ready, and my family knows im ready. But above all, I know that I am ready.

Not going to continue to try to explain my entire journey to one stranger online.
I'm not interested in anymore ill-intended disheartening messages. I fully understand the risks. I am looking for taper information. Thank you.

_________________
~My Total Time Clean Counter~
Clean thanks to Suboxone since June 20, 2014
Down to 4mg a day since Feb, 2016!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:40 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:02 pm
Posts: 1342
Location: West Tennessee
That's great Visa. I'm not trying to convince you, I only want to be sure you are looking at the entire picture honestly. But, I did take into account your age. It is obvious that you are young and I was only trying to pass on some wisdom. I do recognize that the tone of my post was a bit snarky and I will apologize for that part of it. The tone of your posts above were on the verge of being judgmental and I take issue with that when it happens. We can just move on from here.

I was being honest when I said what I did about the taper. If you want to minimize your time on subs the best bet is to drop down to 2mg and stabilize there, then go for 25% drops from that point forward. If you choose to go slower it's very understandable, but it won't help you much physically if that is your only concern.

No worries, I'll stay away from your thread from here on out unless there is a good reason for me not to.

Q

_________________
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. ~ Eleanor Roosevelt


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:42 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2296
Location: Tennessee
Hey Visa.

I don't think Q was posting any ill intended messages and was just trying to help. I know ur probably feeling like ur having to defend urself but honestly I think everyone here wants to see everyone else succeed and even come bk and inspire others after they do taper off sub. U kinda have to see why it was a worry cause a lot of ppl aren't ready at 7 months yet. Also if ur worried about failing a drug test for weed or whatever it was, that's a red flag, maybe not u personally but for a lot of us addicts it absolutely is and that's just real regardless if its an herb or ur previous drug of choice. I think u should take Q's advice on the tapering plan and since ur ready then u will have no problems sticking with it. I am not ready to be off yet after 3 yrs and there's nothing wrong with that but I have heard from everyone, when ur ready ur ready for whatever withdrawal comes because the desire to be free of everything is so strong, the fear doesn't trump the goal of stopping. That doesn't mean they welcome withdrawal, just that it's gonna probably happen and ready to face it. Also Visa, I don't think ur age or how long u were actively using will have any different outcome to someone who's older or used longer. An addict is an addict and when ur ready ur ready and when ur not ur not. I wish u tons of luck and look forward to seeing all of ur tapering progress.

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:00 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 879
Location: Wisconsin
Wow, where to even start. First of all, qhorsegal is one of the most intelligent, well spoken/written, compasonate people you'll find on here. If anything she totally tends to go overboard not to offend someone. Thing is, I've found that people get the most offended when they sence that what they are being told is likely the truth and they aren't ready to hear the truth.

No, Qhorseqhorsegal does not know you and neither do I. I'll take you out of this and say that ANYONE under the age of 30 with a long opiate addiction history who stops Bup is at very, very high risk of relapse. This is simple statistical fact. Part of the reason is a 20 year old brain is not done growing yet. That's true for all 20 year old brains. If that 20 year old brain has been damaged by drug abuse it stopped growing and developing normally at the age the abuse started. So someone who is 22 and stated abusing drugs at 16 actually has a 16 year old mental baseline rather than the 22 chronological years they have lived. That again is well established fact.

Then add in canabas use, especially daily use, and all of this goes up even more. A natural herb? Apricot kernels are also a natural herb. Injesting one is the same as taking cyanide. There is a good reason that doctors test for and prohibit pot use. Natural herbs can be the worse thing for you - or the best. It depends on the substance.

Next lets talk about sobriety time. Again, the literature is very clear that anyone clean for less than one year is at higher risk for relapse than those over one year.

I could go on and on but just take those. Again not talking about you but ANYONE with the same circumstances. So we have someone under 30 with less than one year sobriety who also abuses other drugs. Anyone in that category is at huge, huge risk of relapse. Everyone thinks and somehow just "knows" they won't relapse - right up to the point when they do. It's those who fear and continue to work a program who have the best chance not to relapse.

Good Lord I'm feeling like an old guy now saying how all 20 something's think they know it all when it will only be until they are my age and look back that they see how truly little they really did know.

I know you won't agree and more over don't want to hear it. I'm not trying to change your mind. I just don't want others who read your comments to judge them without hearing the other side. Qhorseqhorsegal was not at all trying to do anything but help you. If nothing else my comments will likely serve to show just how nice she was about it, in comparison.

Finally, I agree with you that being on a medication like sub for the rest of your life looks crazy to that person. At some point at least a trial at coming off Bup should be made. There is just a time where the risk of relapse will be much lower than when only 20 with 8 months of sobriety. Finally, it will be no harder to get off Bup four years from now than it is now. You body will get no more used to sub than it. Is now. You are already fully dependNt on it. It won't get any worse than it is. Lowering your dose MAY help but the time has already been out in and your body is dependent.

I wish you only the best with this God awefull disease. Just please don't underestimate the factual truth of what you face.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:12 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:09 pm
Posts: 41
Location: St Petersburg
donh wrote:
Wow, where to even start. First of all, qhorsegal is one of the most intelligent, well spoken/written, compasonate people you'll find on here. If anything she totally tends to go overboard not to offend someone. Thing is, I've found that people get the most offended when they sence that what they are being told is likely the truth and they aren't ready to hear the truth.

No, Qhorseqhorsegal does not know you and neither do I. I'll take you out of this and say that ANYONE under the age of 30 with a long opiate addiction history who stops Bup is at very, very high risk of relapse. This is simple statistical fact. Part of the reason is a 20 year old brain is not done growing yet. That's true for all 20 year old brains. If that 20 year old brain has been damaged by drug abuse it stopped growing and developing normally at the age the abuse started. So someone who is 22 and stated abusing drugs at 16 actually has a 16 year old mental baseline rather than the 22 chronological years they have lived. That again is well established fact.

Then add in canabas use, especially daily use, and all of this goes up even more. A natural herb? Apricot kernels are also a natural herb. Injesting one is the same as taking cyanide. There is a good reason that doctors test for and prohibit pot use. Natural herbs can be the worse thing for you - or the best. It depends on the substance.

Next lets talk about sobriety time. Again, the literature is very clear that anyone clean for less than one year is at higher risk for relapse than those over one year.

I could go on and on but just take those. Again not talking about you but ANYONE with the same circumstances. So we have someone under 30 with less than one year sobriety who also abuses other drugs. Anyone in that category is at huge, huge risk of relapse. Everyone thinks and somehow just "knows" they won't relapse - right up to the point when they do. It's those who fear and continue to work a program who have the best chance not to relapse.

Good Lord I'm feeling like an old guy now saying how all 20 something's think they know it all when it will only be until they are my age and look back that they see how truly little they really did know.

I know you won't agree and more over don't want to hear it. I'm not trying to change your mind. I just don't want others who read your comments to judge them without hearing the other side. Qhorseqhorsegal was not at all trying to do anything but help you. If nothing else my comments will likely serve to show just how nice she was about it, in comparison.

Finally, I agree with you that being on a medication like sub for the rest of your life looks crazy to that person. At some point at least a trial at coming off Bup should be made. There is just a time where the risk of relapse will be much lower than when only 20 with 8 months of sobriety. Finally, it will be no harder to get off Bup four years from now than it is now. You body will get no more used to sub than it. Is now. You are already fully dependNt on it. It won't get any worse than it is. Lowering your dose MAY help but the time has already been out in and your body is dependent.

I wish you only the best with this God awefull disease. Just please don't underestimate the factual truth of what you face.


1) I have no issues with Q whatsoever. What I do have a problem with is random strangers online who are trying to discourage me or act like I didn't know what she was talking about, because nothing she or you said has been news to me.

PS: Thank you for the taper information, Q. Much appreciated. You too Jenn.


2) Your long post that did nothing but essentially repeat what she said after I explicitly asked to stay on the topic of tapering is quite unneeded here. Q addressed the relapsing issue and we have moved on from that now. I do not need 8 paragraphs of nothing more than just more relapse information.

3) I am looking for taper information only at this time.

4) I will no longer be debating whether or not I am ready to get off suboxone. My support system says I am ready, and I also know that I am ready. Therefore, I will no longer continue to debate these facts anymore. Statistics are statistics, but my personalized caregivers know what is best, and I know what I am ready for. Again, you are a random stranger online, and there is no way I am going to listen to you over my health care providers and therapist. That's not going to change.

5) I will not begin to debate the medical benefits I am given from marijuana. Nor will I continue to make anymore conversation on this topic. I will not stop smoking it, and that is that. Period.

Let's get back onto taper information.

I still would like to know what mg I should go down to form 4mg, and which dose to cut.

Thanks.

_________________
~My Total Time Clean Counter~
Clean thanks to Suboxone since June 20, 2014
Down to 4mg a day since Feb, 2016!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:48 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:48 pm
Posts: 1313
Hey Visa,
After reading many who have tapered here on the forum,and two others i know, the rule is to go very slowly first and formost.
At 4mgs you could start at 3 1/12 mgs then on to 3mgs and so forth till your down to the .25 doses.. Wait until your body stabilzes on each dose. This could take weeks at a time. You could get down to 2mgs quickly then really slow it down. Everyone is different Visa. You may or may not have a easy time of it.I dont really know for sure.
Good luck, and there are many people who have threads here who have done what your about to do. Just seach the Stopping forum for them.

Razor..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:24 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:36 pm
Posts: 879
Location: Wisconsin
Visa, you can stick your head back in the sand if you would like. However, if you really did read whatever number of paragraphs I wrote, you also should have read:

"I know you won't agree and more over don't want to hear it. I'm not trying to change your mind. I just don't want others who read your comments to judge them without hearing the other side."


You most certainly should listen to care providers before a random stranger on the Internet. I would never expect someone to replace my judgment for their own. That said, I have a hard time believing any care givers worth their salt are encouraging anyone 20 years old with 8 months of sobriety to taper and stop maintenance. That clearly goes against emerging standard of practice. I have to wonder if you are not hearing what you want to hear from them just as you don't want to hear anything from of us. I guarantee to you that there are many, many other care providers that will disagree with the advice you claim you are being given.

Again, I'm not debating you. I'm providing a counter point for everyone else who may read this thread today, this week and in coming years. This thread will be here a long, long time. It's not SnapChat or Instagram. Someone will find this three years from now.

Razor55: I very much agree with you that there are threads here from others who have successfully tapered. What you failed to also say is there are five times as many threads here from those who have tapered and relapsed. The ratio is unfortunately much more weighted against those who relapse than those who succeed. Beyond that, I'd ask you to find me one thread of a 20 year old person with only 8 months of sobriety, actively abusing other drugs who has successfully tapered without relapse or switching addictions to something else. I'll be extremely surprised if you can find one. Please be careful about saying these things. I'm on my own taper and hope to quit at some point myself so I'm not at all anti-taper or stopping bup. I think it should be tried. There are just times in life when the risk is lower. I feel it's very important to point the full picture for readers.

Again, Visa I wish you the very best. I hope you are successful in reaching your goals and remain safely in remission. As I'm sure you know, but I'll say for others, opiate addiction has no cure. The best we can hope for is remission. You hopefully will not have to live 70 more years of life still taking suboxone but I guarantee you will live - again hopefully to age 98 - as an opiate addict. Suboxone does not have to be taken for life but addiction unfortunately is with you for life. Unfortunately that means some form of treatment for life is also needed. If indeed you or anyone else is successful in stopping Bup some other form of ongoing treatment will be needed for continued success. Again, I wish you only the very best.

Don


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:22 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:48 pm
Posts: 1313
You why don..beczuse i didnt have to worry about it, i knew you would....

Dont talk to me like i havnt een around this mess the last five years Ive seen it day in and day out at my clinic, teath it at our support group
HAVE SAID IT OVER AND FN OVER..
Ypj want to go and tell these kids there going to fzil, then fine, go ahead. These tbreads of failure are every damn where, all over this forum. Success? ? Go luck to ANYONE COMING OFF BUPE. SLIM TO ALMOST NONE.


So what the nell dose it take huh? Age, working all the step? Whats the process after bupe, during bupe, ? Ill tell you it takes a GREAT PURPOSE IN LIFE, A HOME LIFE OF SUPPORT, A COMMUNITY THAT CARES. Thats how someone in recovery can recover. And it can take years an years of it.

20 somethings fail many times, and ive sad good bye to many of them the last 4 years sadly, and its sad to see this on there family's faces. Every Monday I take about this to guess who? 20 year old girls a d boys. Most dontvwant to be on sub forever, a d thats a shame

SHAME, the backbone of addiction, and for some the end csn be death....Visa wants to taper and jump, then ill pray for her, she wanted info, i gave it. She had all the warnings, post after post..

And im not some Dumbass who hasnt read a d continues to read support and addict need REAL facts, after all there is so much of it.. you all take take tnis post for what its worth...got go...clinic at 2:00...thsnk god


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group