Recently, Dr. Junig suggested (in a different thread) that we should consider adding an "Argument Room" to the forum. This would be a place where members could go to resolve arguments or debates and we could move these types of disputes there when they pop up in other areas of the forum.

I think this idea has some merits. It would help us moderators by giving us a place to move certain posts, and it would provide an outlet for members to resolve conflicts. People do seem to like arguing sometimes, so maybe having a dedicated space on the forum for arguments would be better than just not allowing them to happen at all.

On the negative side, I think an "Argument Room" has the potential to turn into a flame war. It might also be difficult to moderate that kind of forum. I've also noticed that when negativity or arguments crop up on the forum, a lot of energy gets directed to them and the forum becomes about that energy for a while.

Either way, it is my opinion that the "no debate" rule really isn't working for the forum. It creates a situation where the moderators have to be really strict about what can and can't be said, and because we are human and aren't always able to give every thread the same level of attention, there are times when the rule is violated with no consequence and times when it seems like we are being overzealous in our attempts to enforce the rules. I know that some of you feel that you have to censor yourselves...maybe this is a way to change that.

If we had a space for argument/debate, the mods could just corral those kinds of posts there and be done with it. Everyone would be able to express their disagreements and maybe if it's done constructively we can all learn from our differing points of view. And then the areas of the forum designed for community and support could be reserved for just that.

So I'm asking you all for your input.

Do you think this is a good idea? Why or why not?

What kind of rules would you envision for an "Argument Room"? (Would it be "anything goes"? What about personal attacks? Should we moderate the Argument Room at all? These are just a few things to think about, I'm sure you guys will come up with even more.)

Would we allow Suboxone Bashing?

Could it also be a place for people to just go and vent when they're angry?

Do you see any drawbacks to this plan?

Do you see any benefit?

Please share your thoughts about this, I'm really interested to know what you all think.

_________________
You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

-Jack Kornfield

I think this is a great idea. I know people like to argue, but I also do believe that most people are here to connect with other members and are much happier settling disagreements and putting them away. We all have enough going on in our lives. We don't need to be carrying around irritation or dislike and we don't need to let the fact that we have different experiences polarize us. If we all met up physically in a room, we would probably be a lot more polite and (dare I say) we'd probably even like each other for the most part.

As far as moderating it, that's a tough call, DOAQ. It's so hard to determine what is a good reason to moderate a thread and what threads should be allowed to continue on. I don't want to see people getting beat up on for no reason, but I also think if that is happening, other members will step in and stop it. With few exceptions, the people on here and pretty bright and supportive. Sometimes, I think we start believing we are on different 'sides' or something, but we are not. We are all just trying to figure out how to have the best experience we can with this med and with our recovery. I hope people can try to remember that when they post to another member, even in the argument room, they are posting to a person. It's not a screen name with nothing behind it. Behind every screen name is a person with feelings and problems, just like us. This is about helping each other and not tearing each other down. Maybe an argument room is a good place to settle debates or differences while trying to remember why we came here in the first place. I love this idea, and I'm interested in hearing what everyone else thinks.

Thanks for putting the time into coming up with this!!! And you did this on your birthday, too!!

laddertipper

_________________
First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald

I don't know if the argument room will even make a difference? It's a good idea, but we would need Moderators taking shifts watching the entire forum, 24/7 for a fight to break out so they could move the thread to the "argument room."

When arguments do break out, they tend to happen pretty quickly and all of a sudden there'll be several replies posted in a relatively short period of time, we would need 50 Moderators (obvious exagerration) on constant patrol to "protect" others from seeing the argument.

Now, with all that said, I say go ahead and give this argument room a shot.

DOAQ brings up some interesting questions as to how this argument room should work and unfortunately I don't have any good answers.....I say open this argument room up and let's all learn how to use it on the fly. It can change to suit our needs over time. It can be tweaked and improved as we go until the majority are happy with it.

If I ruled the world, that's what I'd do.....plus, pizza would be FREE!!!

_________________
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!

I think this is a really good idea, DOAQ. We ARE only human and we will always have conflicts and differing opinions even though we are all going through a similar disease. And yes I do think we should be able to debate the benefits and risks of Sub. These are only opinions, our personal experiences.

I do think that there should be some reminders, not "rules". No one likes to be told what to do, especially addicts!! LOL
Just like when you are married or in any other communication there are healthy ways to "fight" and unhealthy ways. I do not think we should resort to name calling but there really isn't a way to moderate that without taking away the benefit of this particular subject forum. The thing is no matter what there will be name calling. It will have to be up to each of us to take care of ourselves when that happens, KWIM? set boundaries. How we feel, how we handle our feelings is up to us. No one makes us feel any particular way. We choose to feel a certain way. Anger is a feeling a lot of us are scared of. It is just a feeling. How we respond (vs. react) is up to us as well. We make choices. If I allow myself to walk through the feeling (anger) realizing nothing will happen because it is just a feeling, and give myself time to reflect and respond rather than act out immediately, I am usually a much happier person overall and it opens up communication rather than shut it down. I think we sometimes forget that HOW we say something has a huge impact on whether or not we are heard. We are a sensitive lot, addicts. If something is said in a way that makes us feel angry we are likely to shut down. That said, it doesn't always happen. This kind of topic forum might be a great place for us to learn to communicate with each other better.

The word conflict has such a negative connotation for many of us. We fear confrontation, conflict. But conflict is just a differing of opinion. It doesn't have to be negative. We just want to be heard. Many of us feel misunderstood and jump to conclusions without really listening first and that is when that feeling of conflict crops up. There will be times where flame wars get out of hand...but WE choose to remain in them or not. And we have to remember that resolution is not necessarily agreeing but agreeing to disagree. Communicating well is about win-win. That each is understood. It's not necessarily about resolving the conflict...it's about feeling HEARD. So, with that idea, yes this is a really good idea for the forum. However, in order to have really healthy communication both or all parties have to want and commit to learning healthy communication. And that probably won't happen here. It's too huge an audience.

Emailing and texting are challenging forms of communication. There is no voice inflection, no facial expressions, no body language. Just typed out words. As much as I try to be funny in an email it usually backfires. This will be a challenge, this idea here, but we can try it out and see if it is helpful. If not, you all can take it out.

I appreciate the fact that you all are thinking of ways to make the forum better...it really does show that this forum is one of the best and most supportive out there and we want to continue with it, not destroy it.

I believe it's a Great-Idea. Not to sound mean but exposing people can help other folks in the long-term. It can also open people's eyes to reality, who knows maybe make them less gullible and less easily-lead. Maybe they can take the time to reflect their lives and learn how to believe the right people and how to spot on decivers. Instead of insulting people and accusing maybe a Section such as this is to openly air your views and accusations so it can at least make folks think twice before taking people's experiences "albeit untrue or true" on aboard! Also it can give a chance for folks to post links-forums-websites to prove what they're trying to prove. So yeah a fantastic idea in my view!!!!..

Hi readers, I know that I am new here, but I am not new to Suboxone, nor am I new to forums.
I know of one forum that has a sort of "Debate Room" (that's not exactly the name of it)
and it seems to be running well; however, that particular forum has a lot of active moderators,
and they lock threads when things get out of hand.

With all of that said, I will admit that I voted "Yes"- *but* I do have some reservations...

Also, I will admit that I really haven't yet gotten a good "feel" of this particular forum to
say whether or not a "flame" forum (because that is probably what it would turn into)
would really go over well here or not. However, like some other posters have said,
maybe we could give it a *temporary* run- just to see how it would go-
and then if it doesn't go well, then get rid of it.

Just my 2 cents.

-ex-

It sounds like a good idea and all, like a forum boxing ring where people can just beat the living daylights out of each other, and the mess stays contained.

But also I don't think it would be good to have so much negativity being aired in one place. What if some new person on Subox came in and stumbled onto the forum, thought everyone was a bunch of angry folk and refused to come back? Some people find it hard enough to ask for help let alone when they think people are belligerent.

I think that if an argument is constructive, and people can learn stuff from it, it already has various forums depending on topic. If it isn't, then is there some way moderators can encourage people to "take it to PM?" The cyber equivalent of "taking it outside?"

If you do choose to open up a new fistycuffs forum, can you call it the Octagon?

Personally, I don't like the idea, for the very reason Tearjerker mentioned - what if a new member stumbled in here and it was the first thing they saw? They will be too likely to split and never return. I say no "argument room".

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.

I agree with you both. Also people are free to argue or debate already as long as its done respectfully. So I don't really see the need for it unless the idea was to be able to be disrespectful and allow personal attacks and I dont see how that will help anyone.

I think this is a real bad idea that would lower the class this forum has had for so long. And this section would tare apart the community/family flow we have worked so long to get. But once you put that section up thingS will fall apart, I just dont anything prductive coming from this idea but very hurtfull words and personall vendettas starting over nothing.


And in the same direction hat and tj went new members are going to see some of post in that section and never come back. OR even worst not even want to start suboxone treatment after reading some of thr comments from that section.

ps
methadone would become the devil if that section went up.

_________________
Yes these drugs saved our life's. But does that mean we have to give the rest of our life to these drugs?

I LOVE to debate. I call it debating, not arguing, because I believe that among the (few) rules this hypothetical room should have should be no personal/ad hominem attacks or profanity. Well, as far as profanity..I think it is okay to say "fuck" but not "fuck you," to another member, you know what I mean? People should cite their opinions when presenting new ideas. Maybe the argument room could be visible to members only. I don't think censorship should be allowed unless a rule is broken.

P.S. My personal opinion on methadone is that for MOST PEOPLE, bupe is a better choice. However, I have nothing against methadone and think that everyone should be able to choose for themselves. I don't feel bad for you having to deal with a clinic (if you do have to deal with that, you probably had to wait a long ass time before you got take homes, and I don't think that that is necessarily unfair), but I don't think you should be discriminated against in any way for your choice..I mean, idk if I would want my surgeon to be on methadone, but I would maybe say the same thing about Sub so I don't think there is a difference.

Sorry if I repeat what others have more than likely already said, I haven't read any responses yet. I think it's a really good idea to have a 'room,' where moderators can move threads of this nature. I think that there should be no rules in this room, as traditionally on this forum (where arguments are already breaking out) I haven't seen arguments get too terrible, and typically when they begin to get personally attacking, people will step in with comments and the situation will be resolved. I do think that the room should be available to members only, however, for the obvious reason that it may scare off newcomers.

-Travis

I think this poll is a good example of how much people love drama and fighting over stupid shit. I know i posted once in hear but personal attacks can really hurt people. I dont know if u guys heard anything about the kid who killed himself in buffalo ny a couple months back because of bullying. A huge part of that waz cyber bullying on facebook. I dont think some people really understand how much meaning a personal attack can have on certain people. Let alone this is a forum full of addicts i see relapses coming from this idea.

_________________
Yes these drugs saved our life's. But does that mean we have to give the rest of our life to these drugs?

For some reason the voting is closed on my end. But I'm going with the NO crowd. Even addicts need to learn how to behave properly.

But if you do decide to put one up and it doesn't work out or it's just too hard to monitor, then take it down. At least you tried.

That's my 2¢ (really 1¢ adjusted for inflation)

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously

NO WHAT R U GUYS SAYING ARGUE ON A RECOVERY FORUM? U CAN'T ARGUE IN RECOVERY! WE ADDICTS ARGUE, WE DIE! ARGUING IS JUZ A SYMPTOM OF OUR ADDICTION, AND THE MODS WANT TO BUILD US AN OCTAGON OF ADDICTN TO CLAW EACH OTHERZ EYEZ OUT SO THEY CAN JUST SIT BACK EAT POPKRN AND HAVE A LARFF?

THIS ISNT JERRY SPRINGERZ THIS IS A RECOVERY FORUM!

No seriously...

Can we make the Anger forum become a general "I'm angry" forum, instead of about "why are people angry at people on Suboxone?" It's a bit narrow. This forum could really double as an argument room, sparing the creation of a new one. If threads become too much of a brawl, they could be moved here instead of locked, you know?

Hey There,

im a newbie here, but been around for yrs at nabbt and subsux.,,And at subsux they had a thread called the war zone,,and it worked out real well,,it kept other threads from gettin off track and it was nice to have a place to go and vent!,,In the war zone there were no rules,,you could say whatever you felt like sayin,,sometimes it got a little rough,,but mostly just messin around and talkin shit to whoever you are havin a problem with,,and most didnt take anything too seriously and if they did someone would say ,,"hey,,what do you expect?,,your in the war zone'!,,and again like i said it keeps other threads from getting off topic.
Tattoo Tommy

oh yea,,i wanted to add that i think it would be a good idea for that particular forum to not have any moderaters.,,let it be a place to duke it out w/o worryin about sayin the wrong thing!,,let the moderaters take a break and let folks just say what they want and see how it goes.

OMFG THANKS man ... I can't believe I'd never heard of subsux ..

What have I been doing on this G rated forum all these years.

yea,,subsux is deffinately unique!,,pretty much say anything you want w/o bein censored or banned,,BUT,,if you read over there then you seen i had my own little war going and the place that dont ban people,,banned my ass!! ,,it doesnt say it and nobody said anything but they banned me till next month and i had been with that forum for yrs,,and i seriously doubt i will be postin anything there in a month,,except maybe to let people know that i am and thats why i cant stand up to any crap they may be talkin !,,I thought it was a great place,,but behind the scenes there is a bunch of dishonest bullshit and i called em on it!,,If you get on here or anywhere else i think you need to be honest ,,completly,,or theres no since even postin.,,I speaK MY MIND,honestly and sometimes piss people off!
TT

A bunch of suboxforum regulars ditched this place a few months back. I wonder if they rehomed themselves on subsux?