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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:01 pm 
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[font=Georgia]I will keep this as simple as possible. Here is my short tapper as well as what happened after.

I LOVE Heroin and smoking 30mg Perc (9 a day) I've withdrawn from both opiates and Suboxone. I'm AMAZED with the people who say Sub withdrawals are worse! BS X 1000!!! Simply NOT TRUE PEOPLE!!!

Below is a taper I did in 2 weeks and the symptoms that have followed:

Sooooo I partied it up knowing I want it to be my LAST... smoked 3 grams of Heroin the first day and 9 Roxy pills the next (wealthy boyfriend... I'm a cute girl... don't know how anyone else could afford this unless they are RICH!).

Day 1-Try not to psyche yourself out!!! That makes you BELIEVE things are worse than they are!.... You don't have to go into FULL Withdrawal symptoms! Just wait until you get diarrhea and the chills. I took my first 8mg Sub about 20 hours after my last Roxy.

Day 2-BAMMM! Congratulations you pretty much dodged Opiate Withdrawals and great deal of Opiate cravings dissipate! Suboxone is AMAZING that way!

Day 3- Seriously cut it in half 4mg. Felt like a normal girl. Had energy

Day 4- Seriously cut it in half again 2mg. Felt like a normal girl. Had energy

Day 5-9- 1mg. Felt like a normal girl. had energy

After the tenth day, I did my best to cut little crumbs with my fingernail into .25mg (obviously I never had it completely precise)

Day 10-12- I took the above mentioned crumbs. I would feel depressed and low energy. The crumb helped with this 50%

Day 13- I skipped the crumb. I felt depressed

Day 14- I took my last crumb (I'm going to guess it was about .25mg)

Now at this point I declared I would push through the withdrawals that would follow. And check it out... the cherry on top... My boyfriend is bored with me so he starts frequenting strip clubs and partying with other HOT woman. I LEFT HIM and it STUNG my LOVER'S HEART. Getting high would feel great at this point. I CRIED SO MUCH!

But I didn't get high... I trucked through.

Okay withdrawals now:

Days 1-3 not bad at all. Hardly noticed anything. Even went on a date with a guy way hotter than my now EX.

Day 4- YIKES! RLS I think we can all agree is the worse. I sweat at night on my chest, soaked my sheets and slept 0 hours! So naturally I did nothing the next day. A pinch of Sub would make me feel better. I have it in my medicine cabinet. But I resisted and didn't take any!

Day 5-6- Ultimate depression. Life SUCKS... I'm so sad and hurt and ALONE. I'm tired but sleep wont come! Chills and RLS. You think about your life a lot where you are headed... why you aren't where you want to be. Then you think... Life is moving fast... I didn't realize how fast! I'm going to die one day. Man Heroin would make everything better!!! But you gotta remind yourself: You don't want to be an addict all your life do you??? And life will only continue to pass while you are too high to actually LIVE it. So don't RELAPS. These two days I would have to say would've been my easiest time to relapse. So if you are reading this... make it past these days because little by little it's about to get better.

Day 7- I felt 20% better and got 4 hours of sleep. Not good sleep... but the kind where you wake up every hour. I think we all hope for that day we wake up and feel like an energetic new person ready to take on the world. It doesn't happen over night... That is for sure.

Days 8-11- Soooooooooo no energy. People say get out and exorcize. lol... not possible for me at all! I can't even shower!!! My armpit and leg hair is getting long and I haven't brushed my teeth (all those guys who think I'm soooo BEAUTIFUL should see me now! hahaha) Okay so the zero energy thing.... that is actually all I suffered at that point. The MAJOR depression subsided. I got little bouts of it here and there... but then it left.

Day 12- Actual spurts of energy. Did laundry, vacuumed my room. Did actually go on a 30 min walk. SHOWERED!!! Slept a full night.

Day 13- That would be NOW. I am super tired still. Little bouts of energy. I lay in bed and watch television. I take multivitamins and sublingual b12. My mood is optimistic and my body only aches in my shoulders. It's not that big of a deal. I have moments of happiness and I find myself an entire 60% better than those dreadful days... days 5 and 6.

Remember we F'd up our body's natural way to feel happy. Give it time. I can feel by day 13 so much hope and relief!!! I've read many people say it takes months and months; maybe to be completely normal... but not to actually function in the world and be happy. At my rate... I bet day 15 I will be out of the house. Ironically that is VALENTINES DAY Rrrrrrrrrr..... But we will see what happens. I WILL keep you posted on my energy, sleep and emotional being.

STAY STRONG. DON'T FREAK YOURSELF OUT... IT'S NOT TOO BAD. OH YEAH... and you know what is super cool... YOU GET YOUR LABIDO BACK!!! If ya know what I mean!

(few side-notes: I don't take other medications. If I could do anything different it would be to find some sleep aids. Also, I strongly believe going to work during days 4-14 off Sub would be impossible! You would need to take a 10 day vacation. And just reward yourself next year with Bora Bora or something like that in celebration of being CLEAN!!!)





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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:27 pm 
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OH... I forgot to mention... You will SNEEZE ALOT after withdrawing from Sub. No biggie though.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Good for you. I did my sub treatment in about 3 weeks. 6 months later, I can tell you that you're going to feel like you have never felt before opiates invaded your brain. Just keep it going. Going back isn't worth the pain of what you go through the first 6-8 weeks.

Good luck! :)

CHARLIE

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Thank you Charlie! It is so good to hear that. That is what I ultimately want... To feel like Opiates have never INVADED my brain; that is precisely what they do and you couldn't have said it better!

TODAY: Today is 2 weeks exactly after I did my 2 week Suboxone taper. I am sneezing a lot and my noes itches. I woke up feeling depressed, but I got great sleep. The depression lasted strongly for an hour. I think about VERY negative things... "Why am I waking up with nobody beside me in my bed who will put their arm around me, kiss me, tickle me to wake me up... turn on my favorite rowdy music to get me out of bed to start my day" (That is what I'm used to and now I am single).

But an hour later, chemically my brian is starting to put itself into check... YOU have to remind yourself the withdrawals will focus on what hurts you in your life and multiply them to a depth of ultimate DESPAIR and SADNESS.

I'm getting ready to take 30 minute walk. I am feeling more and more I can get out of bed. If I didn't have a bit of a savings to live off of for this period of time... I would actually be able to make it to a normal day job today (which I will have to get in a matter of weeks... remember I had a rich boyfriend... I didn't have to work. I just got to get high ALLLLLL DAY)

I remember my biggest FEAR was not feeling okay until MONTHS and MONTHS latter. I read so many people's posts saying it took over a YEAR. But I have to say... after two weeks off Sub... This is completely emotionally manageable and I do have bouts of happy thoughts.

We become so dissociated with our body and brian... we forget aches, pains, sadness, low-energy WILL sometimes be part of a normal human-being life. Then we want to quickly blame not having Subs or drugs for these feelings.

I think I can understand now why exercise will be important. That, and stretching and eating properly. We are all aging and we have to take good care of our bodies. Drugs make us forget we are human... as though time stops and we don't have to take care of ourselves.

The other thing I am planning on doing is attending a group. I have been reading the stats on the relapse for those who completely try to do this on their own (I would thus far qualify as that... I have kept this a secret from my family for years! They live in Salt Lake, I live in Phoenix, and when I see them on the Holidays or for family trips... I've been lucky enough to keep beautiful skin, a fit frame and a sparkle in my eyes, my teeth are clean and perfect... I lucked out... all while being a BIG TIME DRUGGIE. Nobody suspected a thing. Heroine and Roxy gave me energy not the opposite). So yes group and of course these forums.

Well so off to my walk. Saturday I have a date with a pretty attractive guy. I hope the sneezing stops my then. I will post tomorrow with more of what is going on.

(Side notes: talking LOTS of vitamins and sublingual B12.... drinking a boat load of water)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:03 pm 
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May I be VERY clear on this: (Just in case one is asking themselves... "why do a Suboxone taper in the first place? Why not just deal with the regular Opiate withdrawals?")... I have withdrawn from pills and Heroin and now THAT is ULTIMATE HELL!!!!... Using Suboxone to help with initial process is by far the most painless way to do it. I WILL PUT MY LIFE ON THAT!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:11 pm 
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Today is day 15 off Sub. It seems energy picks up about 5% a day so it is slow but that does consolidates throughout each passing day. Even-though I have been getting sleep, and one night got amazing sleep, for the other nights...I don't feel I get "real" sleep quite yet. It's like I'm in-between awake and sleep constantly. Besides lack of energy, my noes itches so much!!! I couldn't stop pinching and rubbing my noes last night so much I got a bloody noes! I still sneeze quite a bit. I will say though... today I feel the LEAST depressed of all my days thus far! (Come to think of it, I'm not depressed at all today and haven't felt it yet) I'm getting ready for a walk right now. I'm going to walk to the tanning salon and lay in the ultra-violet bed. Get a little color to my skin... and I think the warmth will feel good :)

I have a good hunch I have been taking tooooo many vitamins in hope I speed up the withdrawal process. So today I am letting off the amount I was taking and just taking the normal person's daily intake.

All in all... I can say this process hasn't been ultimate torture like most expect. The bouts of depression suck... then I get bouts of relief and it feels good. Seems the part that drags the most is the lack of energy more than anything.

I know this is all worth it... and in the greater picture of things... the time it is taking to heal isn't really that long. I guess it can seem long since it is the primary thing on my mind.

My first meeting will be Sunday. I've never been to one. Not sure what to expect. But I'm happy to go!

It's Valentines today btw.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:34 pm 
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I think your withdrawal is about 100% mental now. The physical part is over for you.

Try to remember one thing - even NORMAL feeling people don't always feel perfect every day.

That really got me through to the other side. Plain, ordinary human beings do not feel good every single day. Your body is changing over to the good. You will really start to have more good days than bad days now. Believe it and make it happen.

Keep up the good work. I'm here for you if you need to vent, or feel like you're starting to fall a bit. I went through it and I'm almost 7 months there to the good now.

Happy VD!

Charlie

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:29 pm 
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Hi 2BaHealthy1,

Sounds like you're doing pretty good. You'll have good days and bad days so when you stumble on a bad day, please try and remember that means a good day is around the corner. I had chills and sneezing for many months but I had a much different maintenance and taper plan so I'm sure you'll get over that stuff fairly soon. I think it's great you're attending meetings. If at all possible, please go to Women only meetings. People used to tell me this back in the day and I didn't listen. I thought meetings would be so boring without some guys there but really, it's imperative to your recovery and healing to have at least one meeting w/o being approached by the opposite sex. It might seem nice at first, to get the attention, but it gets annoying later on. Trust me.

Keep us posted, you are doing fantastic.

TD


Last edited by tinydancer on Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:31 pm 
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Oh yeah, I'm guessing by your picture that we're about the same age-ish. Hard to tell.. but we also have a similar history so if you ever want/ need to talk to someone.. please feel free to PM me.

TD


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:45 pm 
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:!: Thank you so much Charlie and TD <3

"Try to remember one thing - even NORMAL feeling people don't always feel perfect every day." Those are some good words to live-by and think about Charlie; so thank you. After my walk and lying down in the tanning bed for 10 minutes... I felt pretty good. After that I kept going for the rest of the day and it wasn't hard!

I ended up going out with my friend who is a professional break-dancer lol (a B Boy) to do the Valentine dinner thing. I told him I was going to go to my first meeting this Sunday and ironically, Tinydancer, he said it was a great idea but... he expressed concerned about me getting hit on... only in his own words.

It is kind of a fear. Even more-so, I am afraid of someone being in the meeting who doesn't really want to be there... is just there because the courts make them... and someone like that doin the whole "we both have something in common... DRUGS.... and I have some to share, let's get high".

I would NEVER give into this... not when I have come this far. I never want to forget what it takes to get clean... the hard work and the WD. But, I just don't want to be approached like that at all period.

I looked up woman groups. Seems they are so very very far from me. I'm East of Phoenix, and they are all West of Phoenix (and PHX is HUGE). I'm going to try this out Sunday at the church that is by my house. I will test it out... see if this particular group is all about the group and not meeting a girlfriend or fling or drug buddy. The good thing is, I live in a very good area... so not sure if this has much to say about the attendance dynamics?

I will keep posted after my Sunday meeting.

AND THANK YOU TINYDANCER... I WILL TOTALLY PM YOU!!! So great to know we are about the same age and have had a similar experience! I'm going to need you from time-to-time :)

(Day 16 off Sub: Today's energy feels pretty good. Feels like quite a jump between mid-yesterday and today. I feel like i'm 80% NORMAL. I'm excited!!!)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:30 pm 
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I went to my very first meeting yesterday evening. It went very well. The group was about half men & half women. One woman took the initiative to get all the other woman's phone numbers and give them to me on a piece of paper. I didn't get hit on... and I didn't have to talk about myself... I just listened. Everyone kind. There is a prayer and some readings with which I am completely unfamiliar.... but I guess I will eventually understand them more. I kinda found the whole constant chantings of "hello....so and so" and "Thank you... so and so" to be kind of strange and uncomfortable. But I guess it works... Everyone there seemed pretty comfortable, non-judged and honest. I will go again next Sunday.

One topic we talked about was meditating. I felt like telling them that is impossible for my busy mind! I literally do not know how to center my thoughts. But apparently, learning to meditate is very healthy for recovering addicts.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:14 pm 
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Hi 2BaHealthy1,

I read where you said that you didn't know how to center your thoughts. That's me too. Sometimes it feels like I have a dozen squirrels running around in my head and those idiots are all banging into each other and biting each other and all kinds of other nonsense too. I put up with this chaos for too long before I finally learned how to calm my thoughts and center myself.

It took a little bit of practice at first, but once you get better at it, you can center yourself in a matter of seconds....it's really quite amazing. I didn't really follow any kind of meditation stereotypes. I didn't sit on the floor with my legs crossed with my hands gently resting on my knees chanting Oooom or Ohm or however the heck you say that word. LOL

The first thing I did was focus on my breathing. That alone will slow you down. Next, I asked God to help center me. I would sit quietly for 1 or 2 minutes and BAM, all those stupid squirrels started running in unison....it was pretty dang cool.

At first, I had to do this many times per day, but then it almost became automatic.

I hope you learn to quiet the chaos in your mind, it is VERY helpful to recovery. Good luck.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:26 pm 
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Thank you Romeo,

That is EXACTLY what my mind feels like at this point in my sobriety. Sometimes my sleep is affected sometimes it is not. More often it is than isn't. I purchased some over-the-counter sleep aids. But is it weird I'm finding it wrong to take them at this point in my recovery? I am approaching 3 weeks clean... and sleep-aids just seem like another type of drug on which I could become dependent.

So last night I tired to breath slower. The anxiety of various thoughts are like those squirrels. I know a healthy person would be able to emotionally handle this better.

I will take your advice and try a couple minutes at a time each day. I look forward to the time it comes naturally :)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:44 pm 
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[quote="seaonasdad"]

Try to remember one thing - even NORMAL feeling people don't always feel perfect every day.

That really got me through to the other side. Plain, ordinary human beings do not feel good every single day. Your body is changing over to the good. You will really start to have more good days than bad days now. Believe it and make it happen.



This is soooo true NORMAL people dont feel great all the time....thats what i am dealing with right now lets see today is day 27 i feel ok not great not horrible but ok I have always looked at it like ur healing ur body all the crap we do to it now we have to let it heal and that doesnt always feel good.....Stay positive & good luck!!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:06 pm 
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When I quit Suboxone, I was exactly like you, I didn't want to take anything!! After 30 days of basically not sleeping (I jumped off Suboxone from a high dose) I caved and started on Clonidine. Clonidine is technically a blood pressure medication, but it's prescribed off label for opiate wd. It calms the Sympathetic Nervous System and has a sedative effect. I stayed on Clonidine for months, then stopped it without any trouble at all. The thing is, even while on it, my sleep still wasn't very good. Getting off of it didn't help my sleep any either.

Fast forward to about 2 years off Suboxone and I was STILL having sleep issues. Once I drifted off to sleep, I was OK, but getting to sleep usually took me until 1am or so. So, around 2 years off of Suboxone, I started taking Unisom (it's OTC). I take the Unisom with the Doxylamine Succinate, not the Diphenhydramine.....and I only take 1/2 a pill. Now I go to sleep around 11pm and it's wonderful.

My whole point being this.....I think it's great to not want to depend on another drug, but at some point in time you may find you need help and I think taking an OTC would probably be fine.

Jeaners point of our mind and bodies having to undo all the crap we did to them is very valid. This whole thing is a process and it takes time. Early on, I used to remind myself to look back to how I felt the previous week of my wd and that always helped me to keep marching forward because I was always better than the previous week or month.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:39 pm 
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Romeo is so right u have to just keep telling urself i am way better then i was a week ago and then mayb look at the bigger picture look how far uve come from a year ago or 2 yrs ago if u try to look at it that way it will make it easier I am just newly clean and some stuff is so clear its weird.....Ive always loved music but now its like falling in love with it all over again a lot of things are like that!!

Its an awakening at least for me it was I was so worried who id b off the meds and honestly I am the same person just more clearer!!!! Oh ya and a little meaner at work.....I use to cry at work all the time now I YELLLLLL!!!!!! I have to say my co workers are like WOW......I tell them its the new me so like it or leave it :evil:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:23 pm 
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Wow. Both of you thank you. It's soooooo comforting when someone can tell you their thoughts, feeliings, WD etc... where/are similar.

Let's see... one week ago... such a great way to put things into perspective. I am quite a bit better than a week ago. When I remind myself of the despair I was feeling... My heart races a bit with excitement because I'm far from how I felt then. Relapsing is made easy when people fail to remind themselves of the pain threw which they went. It's crazy how easy it is to forget even though it was SUCH HELL and not too long ago! If I didn't keep a journal with every emotion and feeling, I don't know if I could remind myself so clearly how much I don't EVER want to feel that way again... emotionally or physically.

So check this out Jeaner....

What you were saying about music... Music has been my life. Winter Music Conference in Miami, Cochella, Raves in every state. I dated a fairly big DJ... I got to travel with him and get high with him... I was so AFRAID music would not feel the same anymore (I am one of those few who would rather go blind than ever deaf). I was also AFRAID that if I listened to my favorite music it would take me back to that place of wanting to be high.

And just a side note: My high-ride has been/was for the last 11-12 years... music, musicians, DJ's and Drugs... for years.

Sorry, taken a while to get to my point haha... Okay, so I've been walking everyday now for the past 6 days... But at first it was gruuuuuueling... I had to force myself and I hated it!!! But yesterday I took my IPod and my AMAZING Apple Headphones! I put on my music and it DID feel SOOOOOO different! I walked faster... outside looked more colorful... I became blissfully lost and excited listening to my music. LIKE I WAS HIGH but better! (today was the same!) I too feel like I'm experiencing music differently now. I thought I would be the only one since music is my LIFE.

So thank you... I think it's awesome you and I feel the same about that!

So in hornor of that... I'm placing a link to one of the songs on my playlist. It's definitely not for everyone because I LOVE electronic music. But the message is beautiful.. and the tempo from fast to slow feels exhilarating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-7MP2rS0oI


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:14 am 
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Thanks for sharing sounds like a fast life and its easy to get taken in.....I am glad that music is giving u something back..... funny thing is i live in a house of musical talent my b/f is a bassist but plays everything, he taught my daughter to play bass and my step daughter is like her father can do anything but what a voice she can sing......BUT me I got nothing cant sing cant play an insturment BUT I have a great ear for music so I am Tom's(b/f) 2nd ear to tell him how they sound!!!! They play like heavy metal i love it but my real love is country music and my daughter just downloaded a crap load of songs on my phone and now everyday when i walk out of work i turn it on till i am done doing what i do everyday and I am telling u what it makes me feel great ive got a few songs right now that just turn my mood around!!!!!

I am very glad u are walking.....Dont u feel better???? Since I am a server I dont walk after work i walk quite enough there....lol Its easy to sit on the couch and watch tv but if u push urself ull feel better about urself and the situation.

I can tell u that after almost 14 yrs of addiction tryed 3 times to get clean 3rd time was the charm for me but I am not looking back on those years I dont miss the partying nor do i miss hunting down my pills then after i started going to the methadone clinic i wont miss standing out in neg degree weather to get my dose and finally i will not miss going every 2 wks to the dr or worrrying if i have enough $$ for the dr and my subs no maam I WILL NOT MISS ANY OF IT.....I dont miss my high at all I just feel like I am so done today is a month for me i wouldnt trade this month for anything!!!!!!

Sorry about the rambling pop in let us know how u are keep up the great work u got this!!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:43 pm 
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Hello 2BaHealthy1,

It's great to read how well you're doing. You've already had all the neccesary advice given above for helping with some of the short term withdrawls.

I can't stress exercise enough, being social and enjoying life. Sitting around at home really makes the entire process seem like an eternity. I like to read about people that hop on suboxone for 2 weeks and than hop off.

Was always my favorite personal method and how I thought suboxone was supposed to be used.

Every emotion will feel more intense, every fight will feel worse. It's like re-learning how to be normal again. I'm still going through the waves of random crap from opiates and I'm 50(ish?) days clean. But it's completely worth it. Happiness feels more intense. Sex feels more intense. Everything feels more intense.

It's good you're going to some type of meeting. I personally decided to see an addiction counciler after some stressful points in my life. More than anything to have someone to talk to about how sucky this is.

Keep it up, keep enjoying the sober life. I haven't thought about a pill since I've quit. I'm too happy enjoying not having to worry about my next fix.

-WantToBeFREE


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It seems people successfully stay clean when they learn to simultaneously HATE their addiction and LOVE sobriety. Without that combination it seems impossible. Maybe that is why relapse is so constant... You can hate your addiction; but the process of getting through the withdrawals doesn't shed the best light on what life feels like clean... so addicts fall subject to their "safe" place... DRUGS.

Getting past the worst has me officially feeling better than when I felt when I got to light up that foil, or crush up that pill.

My senses ARE heightened: colors are brighter, physical-touch and sex ARE better (and more REAL)... and then as expressed, MUSIC moves me more! Not to mention my head is thinking more rationally... I have better solutions for my current problems!

I just wish food wasn't tasting so much better... lol I'm eating a LOT. I think starting today my long walks are going to turn into a jog or run rather. Get that Adrenaline pumping and my body producing Dopamine and all the other good natural chemicals.

Today I'm 5 weeks off heroin and pills and 3 weeks off Suboxone. I feel really good; both physically and mentally (it's crazy how my energy jumped up after having gone through such major fatigue and depression a week ago). I finally HATE being an addict now enough to love life... The way it's intended. I wont EVER go back. I thank god for Suboxone! (I'm with you on that WantToBeFree: on short-term Sub use as well as everything else you mentioned. I know everyone is different but short-term is what seems best in my eyes. I'm aware the mind needs to learn new ways of thinking and processing and for some that means staying on long-term, but short-term is a decision I'm HAPPY I made)

Thank you WantToBeFree and Jeaner for your support and encouragement <3


Last edited by 2BaHealthy1 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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