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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:07 am 
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Hi, so this is my first time posting in the chatroom. So here is a little back story. I used oxycontin (snorting) and heroin (smoking) for about 6 months. Then I got off for a few days, experienced withdrawals and then went on suboxone. I was taking about a milagram a day sometimes up to 2 mgs. I was mostly using it sublingually but would sometimes snort it. I was on it for 3 months. I will be the first one to admit that I have a really hard time not replacing one drug with another. Anyway, being on suboxone allowed me to function and it curbed all of my cravings. Plus I couldn't use anyway. Unfortunately, it turns me into a devil. It has caused me to be very mean to people without realizing and being very depressed. I have lost some friends because of it.

Well, I planned a trip for 6 weeks in mid March so I had a deadline for when I had to get of sub. I had a few days off of work, I can't remember how many. So I decided to take the jump. I was probably using about 1 mg a day. I felt pretty good for the first 3 days and then it got worse. Now I know this is how it works. I had to go back to work though so I was miserable. I took nor co's to get through work but they still wouldn't get rid of the gnarly suboxone detox headache. Unfortunately, I then ran out of the nor co's and made the brilliant decision to use some oxy. I didn't use much and only for a couple of days. But it was still dumb. I just felt trapped with work. Then it was time for work to end and the trip was coming fast. I had 2 or 3 days before I would be getting on a plane to travel for 20 hours. I experienced the bulk of my withdrawals while visiting family. I felt great after about 2 weeks of use of nothing. It was also the first time I had stopped smoking marijuana in years. But then I came back home to reality. I had to go back to work, my boyfriend broke up with me, and I relapsed. It started with a one time thing, then I used suboxone for an event and continued use throughout the weekend (snorting it). I wasn't using daily after that but I would use oxycontin for a few days at a time (maybe 10 days total) and then stop and not use for a couple days. Then I would use suboxone for maybe 5 days (I did this twice I believe). Then I used oxycontin for a total of 4 or 5 days and had to work. I was desperate and felt that I had to chose either to take oxycontin, suboxone, or lose my job. So I chose suboxone. Wrong choice! I wish I just got clean.. it would have taken maybe a week. But that was 4 months ago so there is nothing I can do now.

Suboxone gave me horrible mood swings, rage, and exhaustion. It was negatively affecting all of my relationships. I didn't know who I was anymore. I was just a depressed, empty shell of a person. So on October 13 I got really sick, a bad flu with a fever and all of that. I was extremely overworked and tired. I had planned on taking 9 days off of work later in the month to try and kick suboxone anyway. So in my fever state I decided I would get off of suboxone. So my last dose was the morning of October 13. Luckily I received time off of work until Thursday. But this has been a horrible roller coaster.

I took oxycontin on several occasions throughout my attempted detox. I know this is the most stupid thing I could do. I took it the evening on the 14 and on the 15 so I could go to the doctors for work. I didn't take much. No more than 30 mg total. I took it again on the 20th, another pill. Again in the last fews days and today is my final time using. Hopefully ever... but I know how it goes. Anyway, I am just really desperate. I am terrified that my weaknesses have ruined my chances of getting healthy enough to work 6 hours in 3 days. I have just been so depressed and my cravings have been horrible. My body has been aching like crazy and I have horrible headaches. I have been extremely dizzy, having difficulty walking across the house. I have been trying my best to hydrate and have been taking multivitamins, and fish oil. I try to eat as much as possible but am mostly too exhausted or nauseous to make food. I have been having a hard time being alone and people have been partying at my house. I can't join but it has made it difficult. I don't even know what I'm asking for... I'm just looking for some hope. Or some people that can give me some objective advice. And before anyone says anything, I definitely will never use suboxone or oxycontin again (at least guaranteed not in the next 6 months). I want to say that I will never use it again but I feel like I would be a fool to say that. I will do the best I can and I do not want to be on either drug ever again. I feel like a fool because what I was taking was nothing in comparison to others. But I have depressive tendencies anyway so this has been a real struggle for me. I didn't think I would ever go back and I don't feel strong enough to continue. I don't have any other options though. I will tough it out. Sorry for the ramble. I just needed to get my story out and hopefully someone can give me some positive words of advice. Thanks all! I hope everyone is feeling better than I am.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:25 pm 
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Hi, so this is my first time posting in the chatroom. So here is a little back story. I used oxycontin (snorting) and heroin (smoking) for about 6 months. Then I got off for a few days, experienced withdrawals and then went on suboxone. I was taking about a milagram a day sometimes up to 2 mgs. I was mostly using it sublingually but would sometimes snort it. I was on it for 3 months. I will be the first one to admit that I have a really hard time not replacing one drug with another. Anyway, being on suboxone allowed me to function and it curbed all of my cravings. Plus I couldn't use anyway. Unfortunately, it turns me into a devil. It has caused me to be very mean to people without realizing and being very depressed. I have lost some friends because of it.

Well, I planned a trip for 6 weeks in mid March so I had a deadline for when I had to get of sub. I had a few days off of work, I can't remember how many. So I decided to take the jump. I was probably using about 1 mg a day. I felt pretty good for the first 3 days and then it got worse. Now I know this is how it works. I had to go back to work though so I was miserable. I took nor co's to get through work but they still wouldn't get rid of the gnarly suboxone detox headache. Unfortunately, I then ran out of the nor co's and made the brilliant decision to use some oxy. I didn't use much and only for a couple of days. But it was still dumb. I just felt trapped with work. Then it was time for work to end and the trip was coming fast. I had 2 or 3 days before I would be getting on a plane to travel for 20 hours. I experienced the bulk of my withdrawals while visiting family. I felt great after about 2 weeks of use of nothing. It was also the first time I had stopped smoking marijuana in years. But then I came back home to reality. I had to go back to work, my boyfriend broke up with me, and I relapsed. It started with a one time thing, then I used suboxone for an event and continued use throughout the weekend (snorting it). I wasn't using daily after that but I would use oxycontin for a few days at a time (maybe 10 days total) and then stop and not use for a couple days. Then I would use suboxone for maybe 5 days (I did this twice I believe). Then I used oxycontin for a total of 4 or 5 days and had to work. I was desperate and felt that I had to chose either to take oxycontin, suboxone, or lose my job. So I chose suboxone. Wrong choice! I wish I just got clean.. it would have taken maybe a week. But that was 4 months ago so there is nothing I can do now.

Suboxone gave me horrible mood swings, rage, and exhaustion. It was negatively affecting all of my relationships. I didn't know who I was anymore. I was just a depressed, empty shell of a person. So on October 13 I got really sick, a bad flu with a fever and all of that. I was extremely overworked and tired. I had planned on taking 9 days off of work later in the month to try and kick suboxone anyway. So in my fever state I decided I would get off of suboxone. So my last dose was the morning of October 13. Luckily I received time off of work until Thursday. But this has been a horrible roller coaster.

I took oxycontin on several occasions throughout my attempted detox. I know this is the most stupid thing I could do. I took it the evening on the 14 and on the 15 so I could go to the doctors for work. I didn't take much. No more than 30 mg total. I took it again on the 20th, another pill. Again in the last fews days and today is my final time using. Hopefully ever... but I know how it goes. Anyway, I am just really desperate. I am terrified that my weaknesses have ruined my chances of getting healthy enough to work 6 hours in 3 days. I have just been so depressed and my cravings have been horrible. My body has been aching like crazy and I have horrible headaches. I have been extremely dizzy, having difficulty walking across the house. I have been trying my best to hydrate and have been taking multivitamins, and fish oil. I try to eat as much as possible but am mostly too exhausted or nauseous to make food. I have been having a hard time being alone and people have been partying at my house. I can't join but it has made it difficult. I don't even know what I'm asking for... I'm just looking for some hope. Or some people that can give me some objective advice. And before anyone says anything, I definitely will never use suboxone or oxycontin again (at least guaranteed not in the next 6 months). I want to say that I will never use it again but I feel like I would be a fool to say that. I will do the best I can and I do not want to be on either drug ever again. I feel like a fool because what I was taking was nothing in comparison to others. But I have depressive tendencies anyway so this has been a real struggle for me. I didn't think I would ever go back and I don't feel strong enough to continue. I don't have any other options though. I will tough it out. Sorry for the ramble. I just needed to get my story out and hopefully someone can give me some positive words of advice. Thanks all! I hope everyone is feeling better than I am.


You only used Oxy/heroin for six months, and low-dose Sub for three. If I were you, I would ride it out. Especially because you said that Suboxone makes you mean. The best thing you can do for yourself is to stop now. You mentioned a vacation and a job..believe it or not, this is called "quitting while you are ahead."

No matter what you do (unless you wanna take some sort of opiates for the rest of your life), you are going to have to face withdrawal. You should do it now, because the longer you wait, the worse it is going to be.

Suboxone w/d can be pretty mentally horrible. If you have bad anxiety, you should see a psychiatrist or talk to your Sub doc (are you prescribed Sub) about something to take the edge off while you detox. If you cannot get a prescription, I have heard people recommend high dose loperamide (Immodium) to take the edge off of withdrawal. That is because it is also an opiate, but it does not cross the BBB so does not get you high.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:58 pm 
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I guess I wasn't very clear. So I am getting off of the subs. It has been almost 3 weeks of no sub use. I had a few relapses in there though with using oxycontin. I am now back on the horse and won't get off. I am just having a really hard time with this since I have been though it before. I have to go back to work in 2 days and I'm terrified. I know I just need to start being active but it is so difficult for me because my body aches so bad. I have clonodine and some benzos which have helped to a point. I am just really hitting a wall here. I am positive I will not use sub again and really don't want to touch any opiates again. I just don't have anyone to talk to and am feeling really alone. So any feedback is helpful. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:02 pm 
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Also, by the way... I got off of subs once before earlier this year. So I know what to expect and know I need to ride it out. I'm just having an extra hard time this time.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:44 pm 
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carpedeim, you are going thru a very emotional time right now. You sound like you are beating yourself up and I am here to tell you that this is the withdrawl affecting your mind. IT WILL PASS. FORCE yourself to go for walks. Force yourself to smile at people. The more of some-thing you give, the more of that thing you will in turn recieve from the universe. It is the law of attracion. (a smile, a positive vibe, & unfortunately the bad stuff too.) I know it sounds metaphysical and goofy, but it is REAL. Keep in mind that you have been treating your body harshly. So your body will be treating you the same. I know it is easier said than done, but you must be kind to yourself if you want to start feeling better. You can start by forgiving yourself. Then get some fresh air. Do your best at work. Give yourself some credit. It sounds like you are at the end of your rope with yourself and the rollercoaster of BS you have put yourself thru. I know you can turn this around if you really want to. Be honest with yourself. Be patient with yourself. Believe in yourself. Things will get better if you allow them to. If you have been off for 3 weeks, i'd be willing to bet that you are thru the worst part. You should be getting better soon. I believe that right before and I mean "right before" you start feeling better, things seem to be at their worst possible. So know, REALLY KNOW, better days are right around the corner....


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:51 pm 
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sweet 16 you got me spot on. I am at the end of my rope and am going to do whatever it takes to get healthy from this point forward. All of your advice is much appreciated. I am having a really hard time with guilt because my support network disappeared this weekend because of my relapse. I know I have been mean to my body and if I can just make it one more week I think I'll be okay. I'm just ruining friendships along the way and it is really tough. I also appreciated what you said about what you give will come back. I haven't been treating people well, really depressed, etc. and it is showing in the way others are treating me. I just need to relax and remind myself that this is a phase and it will be worth it. That is mainly why I came to this forum. I just need some extra support. thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:42 pm 
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carpediem, I am glad that I can offer some positive erenforcement. I have been right where you are, except I have never quit sub. (I am in the process.) The thing that helps me, (and the ONLY thing), is that, when I start craving or think that I may want to use again, I fast forward to the end result. It is absolutely not pretty. I finally, at nearly 40 years old, realize that I feel the BEST, when I am high on life. Now, grant it, I have been high on drugs/booze for most of my life, but I always felt like crap after the party was over. I can honestly say that when I have fun and I am NOT under the influence of anything, I have JUST AS MUCH fun, and never the hangover or guilt or pain or regret. I mean when you are fucked up, you do things you normally would not do, you say things that you would never say. You end up in situations that are not cool, right! So just use this method and do yourself a favor. Skip thru all the crap and just enjoy life. Go for a hike, love better than you have ever loved, help someone that is less fortunate than you are. All those things get you just as high as oxy, H, booze, any of that crap. if you put crap into your body, that is what you get out of life. if you invest positiveness into your life then that is what you are gonna get back. I know it is hard, & the first step is always the hardest. Believe me, I am just NOW starting to "get" it myself. So when I write this to you, I am also helping myself to stay on track. So I want to thank YOU for allowing me to give you my opinion and I want to thank you for helping ME to realise that I too can help someone in need. Good luck to you and stay strong. You have this already...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:50 pm 
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So I guess today is my real day 1 since I relapsed last night. Getting off of subs is making my life unravel even more than when I was a dope addict. My roommate is only talking to me over text (because I found a stash of my pills in her room, I feel terrible about this). I betrayed her and she is my best friend. My boyfriend is about to break up with me again because of my mood swings and dependence on him. I am just panicking. I am doing everything I can not to resort to drugs. I won't. I'm just in a real panic about everything. I wish I wasn't an "adult" with a lease on a house and bills. I just want to run to my grandma's house and hide. This is becoming a more therapeutic thing for me to post but I really am glad it helps someone else as well. I hope that others can help us too.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:35 am 
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carpediem wrote:
Also, by the way... I got off of subs once before earlier this year. So I know what to expect and know I need to ride it out. I'm just having an extra hard time this time.


Carepediem. I could relate to so much you were saying. When I was in my very early 20's, I used Suboxone to get clean. I think that was one my problems. Today I'm getting clean with the help of Suboxone, if you get the difference. You're right about having a problem switching drugs. For a person who's in that mentality, Suboxone can easily be used as a part of their "switching" arsenal, and it can also be incredibly harmful.

The thing I related to you the most was realising that work and an opiate addiction is incredibly hard to juggle. I also spent so much time trying to get clean, trying to go to work, turning up in sweats, shaking, being all "slow" and having the manager breathe down my neck at my lack of pace. Eventually I chose opiates over employment, then the years of scheming, unemployment and crime came in.

No matter what happens, if we keep using opiates in this manner, even Suboxone, things just get worse. I've even been on Suboxone and my life got worse, probably because I was using other things, partying, still destructive. Really, in hindsight, I was using Suboxone so it was easier to abuse other things.

All I can say is, if you're anything like me, unless you make a real firm choice soon, one day you may find yourself in a very painful corner that will force the choice on you. Then it doesn't matter whether you turn around and get clean in rehab, or use Suboxone for a couple of years until you're ready to get off opiates 100%.

All the best matey,

T.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:27 pm 
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I just wanted to give an update.. I have definitely made the firm choice to say no to opiates. I still haven't used since Halloween even with my life unraveling before my eyes. Today I sent a letter to my roommate/best friend and made an appointment for therapy tomorrow. I'm just taking it day by day. I don't know how I'm going to have money but my health is still more important. I am probably losing my job because of this so it's even more motivation to stay clean. If I don't stay clean I will lose everything and that will be more difficult than going through this. I'm definitely on the ups. Still really sad and depressed but I'm trying to use it to better myself instead of a reason to use. I hope everyone is doing well.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:24 pm 
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Keep making steps forward. Sounds like you really are wanting this. One step at a time. Drugs are no good. We get high for a reason, but the reason is still there after the high is gone. Therapy is your best defense. I am positive of this. Best wishes.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:15 pm 
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Thank you. I definitely think it is necessary even though costly. I also just found out that my boyfriend is moving 8 hours away from me Nov. 18 until Jan. It is going to be really hard. I think I might try to immerse myself into NA or something so I don't relapse.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:33 am 
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I just wanted to post an update on my progress, what I'm doing, and what's going on. So at 2 am last night my boyfriend broke up with me. I am just trying to let it go. I understand that we both need to be alone right now in our recovery. It still hurts so much. But I still got up today and went to my first therapy appointment. It went well. I felt good about the therapist. She is an addiction specialist utilizing techniques in cognitive behavioral therapy, humanistic, and others. She is having me see her once a week, calling daily to check in, going to an NA meeting everyday until I see her next (at least), and calling someone from NA everyday. I then went to my first NA meeting and I got 6 phone numbers. I went really far outside of my comfort zone and went up to strangers. It was rewarding. Many of the speakers really had the right things to say. I have previously had some personal issues with AA and NA but it seems to be helping. So I am going to go to a meeting tomorrow at 6. I physically feel pretty exhausted. Mentally I don't even know where to begin. I feel like today is the first day of my recovery. But I'm hanging in there. I'm doing it. I'm on 3 weeks off of subs but only the end of day 3 after relapse. I'll keep posting as a part of my recovery..


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:16 am 
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It sounds like you're really committed carpediem, you've made your choice, and you're doing all the right things.

It's really difficult when relationships need to sever, and we all grieve. But the fact you're reaching out to NA instead of to drugs shows just how committed you are.

I really suggest you only get women's numbers in NA for now. In the time I spent in the rooms, I saw guy who would have seen a new woman who'd just left her boyfriend as an opportunity. Just be careful. Though I'm sure you have your common sense. It comes down to "sticking with the strength", and who is the "strength" for you. Sometimes it's hard to tell.

Good luck! And stick around.

Tj.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:27 pm 
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Thanks for your reply. In our community we are told to only get numbers from the same sex and not date again for at least a year. This is the time I have to focus on myself the most so hopefully this isn't a HUGE demon for the rest of my life.. I know it will always be there. I'm still feeling pretty sick. I have the shits, my stomach is in knots, chills, and aches. I guess today is my technical day 4 so that is to be expected. I'm having a really hard time with everything but I'm still hanging in there. I hope everyone is doing well.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:13 am 
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[quote="carpediem"]Thanks for your reply. In our community we are told to only get numbers from the same sex and not date again for at least a year. This is the time I have to focus on myself the most so hopefully this isn't a HUGE demon for the rest of my life.. I know it will always be there. I'm still feeling pretty sick. I have the shits, my stomach is in knots, chills, and aches. I guess today is my technical day 4 so that is to be expected. I'm having a really hard time with everything but I'm still hanging in there. I hope everyone is doing well.


Carpediem: are you taking any anti anxiety pills? or a rx sleep aid?...both helped me greatly i slept everynight. Im on day 10 and i feel alot bettter than i did on day 4...you need someone or something thatll put a smile on ur face and get ur mind thinking in a positive direction...If your depressed thru out all of this, itll be hard staying clean. Go for walks even if u really really dont want to...atleast get outa the house and walk...half way fown the street...keep ur self engaged in one thing or another to help the time go faster.....simply...just take it easy...

Ive been a heroin addict for 5 years, then went on the subs for 4 years.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:06 am 
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I have been using xanax, clonodine, and some sleep aids. I just went home today and came clean to my mom. She is in NA and took it really well and is being very supportive. I am going to go to meetings with her and she is going to feed me and give me some TLC for 5 days. I am so grateful that she is there and in the position she is in. 10 months ago when I first got clean there was no way I could have told her. But now she understands what is going on and is being so amazing. Tonight she hugged me and told me she's proud of me. I never thought in a million years she would tell me that she is proud of me after telling her everything. It was the best thing ever. We are already closer. I am so lucky to have a support system and that I got the balls to be honest. NA meetings have been helping a lot. Mentally I'm feeling a lot better. I'm exhausted but really hopeful. I'm on 3 1/2 weeks off subs and 6 days of no relapse. It feels great! There is hope. I wanted to die 10 days ago and now I am so excited for the future and my life. I still feel like shit but I know it is just going to get better. I'm going to get through this! And YOU can too!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:39 am 
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It feels so good, that point post detox when you realise that things are getting better. It's the "rainbow after the storm" almost.

There will be many trialling moments yet. Remain vigilant. In early recovery, we gotta work through many periods of quite intense cravings. But it does get better with time. And the periods between the challenges can be beautiful indeed.

Congratulations.

carpediem wrote:
Thanks for your reply. In our community we are told to only get numbers from the same sex and not date again for at least a year.


This is often a really good idea, especially for those who have just got out of a relationship.

I used to do a lot of NA, and was told to avoid relationships all that time, and I did what I was told. Now I'm in a relationship in early recovery, and I'm actually doing better. Seems all along I just needed someone to tell me that I was a worthwhile person, and my life was worth fighting for. It's something not many guys in my NA fellowship seemed willing to say.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:45 am 
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That is really unfortunate that the men in your fellowship were not willing to give you that. I have been told so many times that my life is worth fighting for and that this is the most important thing I will ever do in my life and that I am so worthy of love. I have been shown so much compassion in just a few days. So it's unfortunate that you didn't have a similar experience but I am glad that it is working out with your new relationship. At this point my relationship with my "ex" is kinda a joke. We still talk everyday. I got him to 2 meetings. He seems to really want to do it himself. He has a longer history than I and is completely fed up. He has been off subs for 2 1/2 months but has been dealing with relapse. He said if it weren't for me he wouldn't have any hope and I am helping him with his recovery. It is hard to find a balance of focusing on myself and him, but I can't help all the love I have. He told me this evening that he feels like we are more than a team than ever. But I think we are still going to be in different cities for a while and focus on ourselves and then reconsider. It is really hard but I'm just trying to be accepting so I can focus on my recovery. I'm having really bad insomnia now since I am home. I do not have a lot of the tools I was using before to help me sleep. I just have a little zan and that's not working. Blah I just hope I can sleep soon.. this couch is damn uncomfortable and my body hurts. It was such a long day, I thought I'd be wiped out so I could sleep. What kind of recovery are you in?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:05 am 
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I'm in recovery from addiction. :D

I've tried so many recovery programs / rehabs. I used to do a lot of 12-step based recovery - NA mostly. I had some decent stretches of clean time while in the rooms, but I eventually would always relapse. And they were really intense life threatening relapses too, like I gave myself completely to my addiction. I did a couple of very intense periods in a 12-step therapeutic community, which was an experience! I was front centre in the meetings for years talking up the program, worked all the steps, secretary of a meeting, GSR. Recovery was my full-time job. I had that dreamy 12-stepper voice going. I definitely had some fond memories of my time in the rooms, but I decided to walk away as I was sick of building up my life, only to lose everything when I would eventually relapse.

I then tried a bit of SMART recovery, which was very different, but my recovery went just as well as in NA. Just like previously, after a while I used again. The relapse was nowhere near as intense as they were in NA, when they just kept getting worse, and I managed to pull it up before I smashed my life again. In a moment of clarity, I realised it was time to try something different, and I went back on Suboxone. I think it was a wise decision, as I have managed to stay and organise holidays, work, buy a decent car, treat my hep-c. All things I hadn't done for years because of the relapsing.

While I had a couple of weeks using while on Suboxone, they were nothing compared to before. Strangely, I find the idea of using, the ritual, the scoring ... disgusting. Literally. I can't believe I was putting needles in my arm. :shock:

I do plan on tapering at some stage. But there are a few hurdles to jump yet.

Anyway, that's the recovery I've worked. I've taken the best bits of many different "recoveries" and built my own. :lol:

Keep at NA. Many people get a quality recovery in that program. But if you find after a while that your life hasn't been improving, don't be afraid to look elsewhere, as the 12-steps doesn't have a monopoly on getting clean. Recovery, like faith, is a very personal thing, and we all have to build our own.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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