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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:52 pm 
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Man great forum ive been reading and taking in all this info and its helped so much understanding my problem. Ive been on oxy for 12 years anywhere from 60 to 160 mgs at my worst. Ive also chased oxy with xanex for the the last 6 years .Last week i went to see a doc about this problem and he put me on 8mg 2x per day . I started slow and never got higher then 12 mg a day. I want off this stuff like yesterday. So i went from 12 to 8 to 6 and today i only took 4 mg and i feel ok . I plan to go down to 1then jump .All this within 3 weeks .Just wondering if anyone has tried anything like this as far as going from opiate addiction to suboxone and off completly within a month. I know its probably not the best route for long term sobriety. Im not really addressing the issue as to why i seek drugs but i dont want to be on suboxone for any long period of time .i actually hate the way it makes me feel i just dont want to be sick .im truly done with pills in general . So basically my question is will it be easier to jump off only 3 weeks on them as opposed to staying on subs for 3 months or more ? Thanks to everyone here all you folks are very kind and generous for sharing your stories and advice .ive never seen a forum like this where everyone is truly kind and just want to help other people.its very refreshing to see people helping one another i found allot of inspiration here thanks again !


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:24 am 
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Hi Bones, I think that being on sub for 3 weeks won't raise your tolerance like being on sub for 3 months will. One thing I want to caution you about, if you don't already know this is that suboxone has a long half life. There's nothing wrong with dropping your dose fairly quickly, but you should know that your body doesn't necessarily catch up with the drop in dose for 3 to 4 days. You're almost definitely going to feel withdrawal symptoms while you're tapering off the sub. And then you may experience PAWS for a few months from your prolonged opiate abuse. Definitely seek out some form of support or therapy so that you can be successful in your recovery. Good luck!

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 Post subject: Short Term Use
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:22 pm 
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Hi Bones99,

Good to have you here on the forum with us. I think your plan is a good one with the exception of dealing with your addiction. No, you don't want to be on Sub for any longer if you can help it. The longer you're on it the harder it will be to get off of it. But don't think you can get out of not having withdrawals symptoms just because you went onto Sub for a short time. You may have less in the beginning because of it, but I doubt you will be able to avoid the PAWS. (post addiction withdrawal sypmtoms)

Normally a long and slow taper is best. In your case it can go either way. Rehabs use Sub for a week to lessen the short term w/d's. It's the long term that will be your battle. Do whatever you can to find a decent recovery method. Whether it be a 12 step program like N.A. or A.A., or an Addiction Specialist who can guide and council you through the months ahead.

And of course stay here for some recovery assistance.

Welcome to the forum,

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:59 pm 
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Thanks for the advice. After further review and allot of soul searching ive decided to just stay on it and go along with my docs advice. Plus i tried going down to 4mg the other day and it really didnt work out so good . Im an addict i wanna get loaded every second of everyday for reasons not clear at this moment. Im using subs right now so i wont od .....and its working . Im just a little moody and i have zero sex drive guess i can deal with that. I just dont like some doctor holding me hostage with an orange pill. Goal for next week is to get into therapy . I got scared at all ive read about how bad suboxone is for for your liver and some other things about withdrawl being worse. It cant be any worse for ones body then slamming oxys and xanax down my throat for years ....? Can it ??? Plus i see people posting saying its poison ..Like what most of us did in the past wasnt poison?? Thanks again take care everyone


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 Post subject: Rumors
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:12 pm 
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Hey Bones,

You know yourself best and making the decision to stay on Sub sounds like a good one. The stuff works great at getting rid of cravings.

Don't believe all that crap about it being poison or doing liver damage. It's just a half opiate that doesn't get you high. (in most cases) Most of us don't have any bad side effects from it. If it was all that bad it wouldn't be on the market. You'll see how it affects you after you've been on it for a month or two. With me I get tired from it, that is also a common complaint. If I keep busy I'm fine.

Congratulations on making the decision to possibly save your life. Things will start to even out and life will be a whole lot better than it was chasing a high.

Rule

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 Post subject: Re: Rumors
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:12 am 
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rule62 wrote:
Hey Bones,

You know yourself best and making the decision to stay on Sub sounds like a good one. The stuff works great at getting rid of cravings.

Don't believe all that crap about it being poison or doing liver damage. It's just a half opiate that doesn't get you high. (in most cases) Most of us don't have any bad side effects from it. If it was all that bad it wouldn't be on the market. You'll see how it affects you after you've been on it for a month or two. With me I get tired from it, that is also a common complaint. If I keep busy I'm fine.

Congratulations on making the decision to possibly save your life. Things will start to even out and life will be a whole lot better than it was chasing a high.

Rule


I have to disagree here, its switching dependencies, I too thought sub was a good idea when I started but then it just built in in my system and brain, I decided I do not want to live life in a fog, trust me side affects will catch up before you know it. It can do some damage to the liver as there are reports of elevated enzymes of those who have done tests.

Its on the market as its newer then methadone, and I think we are trails or guinea pigs of suboxone and subutex. I know small micro doses were approved decades ago but they were tiny doses, I think its only been 11 years they started to prescribe high doses, and I mean 2mg and over. I read a older post here where someone said a person from suboxone manufactures called them and asked them when their symptoms stopped and how bad they were, so to me they do not know themselves what suboxone withdrawals are about, they are using us as trials. I would not recommend staying on sub for the long term because it does catch up believe me, then there is the duration of the brain chemistry getting back to normal and stopping suboxone. What worries me is when people report of methadone being the less of the 2, not good or encouraging at all.


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 Post subject: Rules
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:33 pm 
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Icaras,

Please read the rules of this forum when it comes to someone's choice of recovery. What you said may be very harmful to those seeking help.

"I have to disagree here, its switching dependencies, I too thought sub was a good idea when I started but then it just built in in my system and brain, I decided I do not want to live life in a fog, trust me side affects will catch up before you know it. It can do some damage to the liver as there are reports of elevated enzymes of those who have done tests."

You may post your opinion but please do not post things as facts unless they are proven to be. Just because you read something on the internet does not make it a fact. Plus, you may suffer from some side effects others do not. Therefore you cannot put a broad brush on everyone. Meaning, we are all different when it comes to how a drug will effect us.

The OP needs to be on some sort of drug replacement therapy until he/she can deal with their addiction. We don't want to scare addicts away from recovery on this site. We are here for supporting recovery in whatever method it may be.

If you have a problem with this, please PM me or any other moderator.

Rule62

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 Post subject: Re: Rumors
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:22 am 
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Icaras wrote:
rule62 wrote:
Hey Bones,

You know yourself best and making the decision to stay on Sub sounds like a good one. The stuff works great at getting rid of cravings.

Don't believe all that crap about it being poison or doing liver damage. It's just a half opiate that doesn't get you high. (in most cases) Most of us don't have any bad side effects from it. If it was all that bad it wouldn't be on the market. You'll see how it affects you after you've been on it for a month or two. With me I get tired from it, that is also a common complaint. If I keep busy I'm fine.

Congratulations on making the decision to possibly save your life. Things will start to even out and life will be a whole lot better than it was chasing a high.

Rule


I have to disagree here, its switching dependencies, I too thought sub was a good idea when I started but then it just built in in my system and brain, I decided I do not want to live life in a fog, trust me side affects will catch up before you know it. It can do some damage to the liver as there are reports of elevated enzymes of those who have done tests.

Its on the market as its newer then methadone, and I think we are trails or guinea pigs of suboxone and subutex. I know small micro doses were approved decades ago but they were tiny doses, I think its only been 11 years they started to prescribe high doses, and I mean 2mg and over. I read a older post here where someone said a person from suboxone manufactures called them and asked them when their symptoms stopped and how bad they were, so to me they do not know themselves what suboxone withdrawals are about, they are using us as trials. I would not recommend staying on sub for the long term because it does catch up believe me, then there is the duration of the brain chemistry getting back to normal and stopping suboxone. What worries me is when people report of methadone being the less of the 2, not good or encouraging at all.


What's with the ill-informed sub-bashing that's been going on this forum recently? Subsux closed their doors to new members and suboxforum's getting the spillover?

(a) Buprenorphine is not bad for the liver. If it was, it would NOT be prescribed as many people on Suboxone are ex-IV drug addicts with hepatitis and varying stages of fibrosis. These people cannot afford to take any medication that raises ALT's, yet many are on Suboxone. I used to have Hep C and I remember asking my gastroenterologist if there were any issues with sub and hepatoxicity ... he said no, he hadn't heard of it, and it would not be prescribed for opioid-addiction if it was when so many opioid-addicts have HCV. A LOT of medications have liver warnings. Medications are broken down by the liver. Some medications are harder to break down than others. Liver warnings are for the most part precautionary. I did not have one raised ALT while I had Hep C from buprenorphine ... only from Depakote, and Agomelatine.

(b) Methadone being the less of the 2? I've high-jumped twice off methadone, 2-3 times off Suboxone ... I'd choose Suboxone anytime. Methadone is 1 month of ACUTE withdrawal, then 4-5 months of residual withdrawal. Suboxone is 2 weeks give-or-take.

(c) If people on buprenorphine are guinea pigs, then anyone on any medication released since the 90's are guinea pigs, and only medications that have been around for a whole generation would be considered safe. What about the first people who were given life-saving antibiotics? Would you be there waving your arms saying "no don't take it you're a guinea pig and you could die"... Our world would still be without antibiotics.

I don't see our situation as any less serious. Opioid addiction is a killer disease... And while you're alive and still using, you're cursed to live life as an emaciated, malnourished, whiny, selfish, self-destructing parasite. Buprenorphine gives you 70% chance of a ticket out of there (that's for heroin addicts) ... or you can try recovery without-Sub and have a shot with 7% chance of staying out.

Weigh the treatment up against the reality of the disease ... Not against what you remember life as being before you were an addict. That life's gone. Shit's changed now.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:40 pm 
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TeeJay, I have been reading a few threads today that have included posts by you. Such as the one about having social anxiety/depression on suboxone. You and I seem to have very similar situations. I also have hep C but have yet to get treated, or even have a biopsy. I don't know why I keep putting it off. I've got to do it very soon since my insurance runs out in August, proably won't even have enough time to get treated anyway. No insurance also means I'll have to be tapered off suboxone by then as well, and I'm on a daily dose of 8mg currently. I dunno man. I know this is very off topic to this thread, perhaps I should have put this in a private message. Ah well, thanks for reading anyway :)

Also, love the avatar you've got. I know I certainly love mushrooms. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:46 am 
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Hey Cutty... You may not actually need to have a biopsy if you haven't had HCV for a while. There's new diagnostic tools like the fibroscan that can give the docs a look at your liver condition without needing to take a sample. It sends vibrations through your liver region and you can view the density of your liver all through. Cool stuff.

Depending on your genotype, it may actually be worth waiting a couple more years to get treatment. There's some exciting new treatments on the horizon that have much better cure rate than interferon, and a lot less side-effects. Interferon is pretty gruelling, and its side-effects can linger. Ask many people who've done it, even years later, and they'll say treatment has changed them / aged them. But to not have HCV it's definitely worth it. If you can hold out a couple more years, you may be able to get a cure without needing to subject yourself to IFN. But as you say not having insurance would def put any kind of treatment out of reach.

Dunno if mushrooms can cure HCV, but they're definitely powerful ... and can make you forget about it for a few hours :D


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 Post subject: Positive Energy
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:53 pm 
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I know one thing friends and neighbors ! Ive been off oxys for 3 weeks now . I havent been this clean since 1990 thats right i said 1990. And furthermore im down to 4mg per day. I can feel the difference in myself i hear birds chirping again im noticing things i havent noticed in a long long time i can see the light at the end of the tunnel . Gone are the days of wondering how i was gonna score some opiates and hand over hundreds of hard earned dollars per week . Gone are the days of counting my frickin pills while i plotted to re-up before i was even out .Point is folks this suboxone drug has given me a way out its not a magic bullet but it works. Im using it as a tool to figure out why i want to use so much and to help me gently get back to normal. Side effects .....sure why not coca cola has side effects . Bigest one for me is the social anxiety but i can cope with that and ive had that my entire life not sure if its the sub or some underlying issue but thats for me and my therapist to sort out .i had big anxiety when i was using as well ....small trade off. I still have allot of work to do as most of you know if you are serious about getting clean there is allot of work to do . All i know is ive tried to kick before many times ive went through being sick for days and i would say i would never use again but i always went back for more punishment. This time is different with suboxone i can feel my brain getting back to normal. I used to reach for a pill with my coffee in the morning now i go well into the day before i even think about it . Around 3pm i start to feel like i need a little something or want a lil something. Before i would seek oxys morphine perks whatever ya know the deal . Now i take suboxone and i can go about my day . One day i will not need the suboxone but for now im glad i have it until i do the work and gain skills to live sober . Lets keep it positive people ! This is hard enough lets not squable with eachother most of us are in the same boat. We need one another . Thanks for the information im glad i didnt get off suboxone to soon. I think, just my opionion i wasnt feeling good at first due to the higher dose .as i drop i feel better things are balancing out. Ty everyone


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:05 pm 
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I'm glad that dropping your dose to 4mg made a big difference for you! Sometimes it takes few weeks and tweaking your dose to get used to the sub. The trick is to minimize any side effects while still taking enough to combat your cravings. Keep up the good work!

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:28 pm 
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TeeJay, yeah man I am certainly aware of the advancements in HCV treatment. I am going to do anything possible to avoid Interferon. I failed to mention in my last post that I'm 25 years old, and I'm not certain how long I've had Hep C. At least 3-4 years. However, I am taking some steps that may help with my liver helth. Such as eating better, and I take a few vitimans that improve/support liver function.(Alo vera/certain acids/milk thistle) So I mean thats all I can do for right now. I hope to God I'll somehow have a way to get treated when/if I do need it, and the better treatments are availible. Thanks again for the advice bro. :)


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