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 Post subject: sex drive in women
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:33 am 
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Has anyone noticed a reduced sex drive in women due to Suboxone maintenance? Maybe it's my age or menopause, but I have no interest in sex. My doc added Wellbutrin which is reported to boost libido, but I haven't noted a change.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:40 pm 
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I take Wellbutrin for depression and adult ADD. It has worked really well for me. Early on when I first started taking Wellbutrin I think it dramatically improved my libido and sex life. In fact it increased hmm...not sure how to word this, my orgasm potential. Now that I have been on it for almost 2 years those side effects are less apparent but I still think it has helped many aspects of my life.


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 Post subject: Re: sex drive in women
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:43 pm 
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Dr.K wrote:
Has anyone noticed a reduced sex drive in women due to Suboxone maintenance? Maybe it's my age or menopause, but I have no interest in sex. My doc added Wellbutrin which is reported to boost libido, but I haven't noted a change.

Holy Cow, Dr K - you have mentioned my number one problem with suboxone.
Yes, I have to take a SSRI for my severe recurrent "major depression", and my doc refers to all SSRI's as "libido-ectomies" - but for 20 years on Prozac I had no problem.
Yes, I am 56 years old well into menopause.
BUT - when I stabilized my sub dose at 6 mg, I watched my desire and ability to orgasm ride off into the sunset together. I miss them terribly!
I have just started a medically supervised wean to come off my 2 years on subs, and my major reason for coming off sub is I want my desire and abilities to return.
Will keep you posted if you're interested in my stopping suboxone thread.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:12 pm 
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Hey ladies, we need to discuss this; I've been searching on this topic because my sex drive is through the roof on suboxone, and all I can find is men complaining of low libido. It seems that at higher doses, the libido is down.

I want to tell a little about me, for those who are curious. I am married, almost 50, married over 20 yrs, with a few teenagers. I am not in menopause, and still ovulate regularly, although I had a hysterectomy a few yrs ago. I have a beautiful figure and wear a string bikini, that my girlfriends say I look great in, like a 20 yr old, so I'm in good health. I work out regularly, always have. No plastic surgeries, not vain enough for that. I was on norcos for 10 years. I take a piece, twice a day, of one 2 mg subutex pill. Lately, I don't even finish the one pill. I've been on 2 mg subuxone since mid-May.

In mid-June, my husband and I went on a vacation and we reconnected. Since then, I have been insatiable. This is a complete turnaround from avoiding him for years. I used to get up early in the morning, before 4am, so when he woke up, I was not there to be grabbed. That was also when I took my norcos.

I was taking 25 - 40 norcos/day. I did not try for an orgasm when we had sex, and I rarely masturbated because I was too numb from the pills. It would just take too long, so it was embarassing and not worth the effort. I had lost all interest in sex, except the week I ovulated, when all ladies know, we are more aroused., I was distant from my husband. I avoided him.

Today was a big day. I told my husband I had been addicted to pain pills. Now I just need to tell him about the suboxone. I had to tell him, because he could not figure out why my emotions were heightened, and I was more interested in him.

Back to sex: I am emotionally and physically aroused by him all the time. It's important to note I am not aroused in general or to any man or even a good looking guy jogging by. That does not even do anything to me! Instead, I am just longing for that closeness with him.

There are other changes I've noticed. I am excited to get my career back on track, I listen to music a lot (I rarely, if ever would listen to music before, just talk radio and TV shows).

My question is if the subuxone is making my sex drive greater? How long will I be in a constant state of arousal to my husband of 20 years that I used to ignore? I am sure this will be temporary. In any case, he is not equally aroused, so it's kind of a problem at this point. I know he loves me, but still....


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:34 pm 
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Geez... my glasses are steaming up!

I doubt that the Suboxone (buprenorphine) is INCREASING your drive; maybe getting off those other opioids and stopping the chaos of using has uncovered a natural drive that was there all along. In theory, people become tolerant to the receptor effects of buprenorphine and feel 'normal' during maintenance. But I think most people believe that buprenorphine is lowering their sex drive, at least from what I hear. BUT-- almost EVERY patient who I see, for any condition, complains of a reduction in sex drive over time. The SSRI's are certainly big offenders at reducing drive, but even people not on SSRI's complain. Simply getting older has a very profound effect on testosterone levels in men. Things are more complicated in women (aren't they ALWAYS?!), and some women get an increase in sex drive around menopause, probably from changes in hormone levels.

Chronic opioids reduce testosterone levels-- generally. Not in everyone, but on average. But again, once a person has become 'tolerant' to buprenorphine, is the body affected by opioid stimulation? If so, I'm not sure how, because the effects of opioids on testosterone are presumably receptor-mediated, and we know that the mu receptor develops tolerance and then acts as if it is not being stimulated. Are there OTHER receptors that are affected by opioids that are NOT subject to tolerance?

Or... maybe the reduced sex drive that men on Suboxone tend to experience is NOT actually from the Suboxone, but instead is the same old drop in sex drive that ALL men experience.


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 Post subject: libido
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:17 pm 
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Thinking more on this topic, I realize that my increased interest changed a couple weeks ago to a more emotional nature. I want to be with my husband, not just physically, but I want him with my heart, mind, and soul. I am now realizing how much I love him.

The problem is, yesterday I told him about my addiction and he is feeling betrayed, and he slept on the couch, so it will be a while before I get laid again. I have such a heavy heart now, that I am not thinking of sex right now.

I hope more women will post their experience. I spoke with a friend my age, not an addict, who said her libido is much lower than she would like. So I think I am overcompensating from all the years I repressed my feeling. This same friend said he probably blames himself for my drug use (he did ask me if my life was so bad that I needed all those drugs). She suggested I remain patient and reassuring.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:40 pm 
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Forgive me, but I don't see how bragging about prancing about in a string bikini at 50 has *anything* to pertain to this discussion...(I'd hope I still could when I'm 50 too but...idk.) I applaud your celebration of sexuality but is that really necessary on a meds forum?? That said, I *am* glad someone female spoke up about sex drive...at least your not getting buzzed every time you take suboxone like I am still. Thought it was supposed to go away, nope. :/ I don't know I'm feeling a bit moody today as you can tell


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:48 pm 
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I have to admit I wasn't especially interested in reading about another's experiences whilst wearing their string bikini......but....I also think it important that we don't lose site of what this forum is about -- the PP described this as a "med forum" - but we must remember this is a med that is pretty much like no other. Suboxone isn't just another blood pressure or diabetes drug - it is used to keep addiction at bay -- a very complex condition (I personally don't subscribe to the addiction-as-a-disease model) which profoundly impacts most areas of our lives - physical, psychological/emotional and the relationships we have with most people in our lives, sexual and otherwise.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:20 am 
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Haha, I wonder if someone would get reprimanded for being irrelevant if she wrote she's an overweight 50 year old with stretchmarks, instead of a string bikini. Just a thought.

So I guess I'd better behave and be relevant :)
The thing about sex drive in women is a total mystery to me, to be honest. Maybe the lack of it has something to do with us being more alert and rational (Sub does it to some people, a lot of people in fact, especially during first months after induction - they say it feels a little like being on uppers). My doctor also suggested it can be for the same reason many Suboxone patients experience fluid retention. or it has something to do with constricted blood vessels, a thing that happens with all kind of opiate agonists, either full or partial. If that's true, maybe there's some benign vasodilators or whatever they're called... Personally I have no idea, and besides blood pressure drugs sometimes cause leg swelling.

Endorphines are another issue. There's a connection between higher doses and dramatic reduction in sex drive, - maybe receptor availability is involved in a way? What has higher affinity for mu1 - b-endorphins or Bupe? I tried to look it up but couldn't find anything definitive. So i leave the science to scientists and use some good old garden-variety female logic :))

See, both Buprenorphine and Naloxone are synthesized from thebaine (opiate alkaloid, derived from poppy straw concentrate). as well as Oxymorphone, Oxycodone and other opiates, and thebaine itself is an alkaloid of opium. All these guys have similar chemical structure, in fact, they all have the same "letters" in them, C and H and N and O, with different number of atoms. A tweak here and there - and you get Naloxone instead of morphine. Thing is, all that synthetic stuff is made to penetrate blood-brain barrier, some faster, some slower, but they're efficient at it. And our natural friend b-endorphine, the "sex hormone" is kinda clumsy, and cannot sneak into the brain in large quantities. Once again, I have no idea if there's a connection there, I just theorize.

But you know what? I don't believe Bupe can actually "outcompete" most of our endorphines when there's enough of them to go around. But the thing is, with years of chronic opiate use, our bodies get lazy and shut down the operation. It's like a gardener that has a garden to take care of so that he can eat, but then someone builds a huge QFC on his front lawn. You start getting stuff from the outside, stop watering and taking care of your plants, so weeds and droughts and pests take over, and soon enough there's no more garden. To restore the natural balance, we cannot just sit and wait for it. They say working out and taking vitamins and supplements (especially 5-HTP complex) can help a great deal. And I know they're not lying :) It's amazing what your body can do when you finally slap it awake... seriously, it works.

And you also loose weight so you won't get upset the next time someone mentions a string bikini :P

Best of luck to all

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 Post subject: String Bakini's
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:53 am 
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MathAn , Maybe while we were opiated they ( string bakinis ) became politically incorrect, Could Happen. I'm sure they dont produce as many as they use to !!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:57 pm 
Kelly B, I hope you're still watching the forum for replies. I had to giggle a little bit too about the string bikini and some of the comments that followed, but hey, it's a free country and although this is med forum, it's certainly not only about meds, but also about recovery in general, where we should feel free to discuss whatever issues we have as long as we don't break the rules of the forum. As far as I'm concerned.....good for you for keeping yourself fit and healthy at 50! I am only a few years younger than you and genetically lucky, more than anything else, to still be the same size I was when I was about 20 years old (3 kids and some milage later!!) Although I could probably get away with a string bikini without scaring anyone, I can't say I've ever been confident enough to wear one (at least not in public!) So hey...more power to ya!
The real reason for my post is to follow up and ask you if things have begun to improve with your husband since you told him about your addiction? I know how awful that is.....to feel alienated and not understood by your husband when you really need him the most. So I hope you've been able to talk it through and come to a better place with him. It is difficult for the spouse of an addict, especially when we 'blindside' them with this mindblowing information. Can you imagine what goes through their minds? Wondering what else we've been untruthful about, whether (as you mentioned) he's feeling as though he is somehow responsible for your addiction, feeling guilty or foolish for not figuring it out......and on and on. I know with my husband, there was a real, real bad few months when I was scared to death he would not forgive me and not be willing to move beyond it all. Thankfully, eventually he came around and was able to see that my being on Suboxone was a good thing and he could see the positive changes I was making in my life. So try to be patient with him as he processes everything and you may even need to consider seeing a counselor so the both of you can get it all out in a safe environment. I know there are others on the forum who have had great success working on their marriages with a therapist.
As far as your original questions or thoughts about the libido issue.....I've got to guess (and it's only a guess) that your libido increase has much more to do with how good you feel just being off your former drug(s) of choice. It seems like when we're on the full agonists we're so numbed up that we don't care that much about anything....it's like "sex-okay fine, that's nice" or "sex-nah, whatever, take it or leave it." And almost everyone, male or female has difficulty achieving orgasm when loaded with opiates because of how badly we've screwed up our endorphin production and the "feel-good" part of our brains. I just think that once we get out of that cycle (which for most is pretty sudden and dramatic) when we start buprenorphine, we just start to feel again like a 'normal' person does. So all these feelings of love and endearment and passion for your husband are waking back up and part of that, for you, includes being more sexually attracted to him that you had been when using. Probably oversimplistic, but that's my guess for what it's worth.
Personally, I did not experience things the way you have. I cannot say that I had any big libido surge when I started Suboxone. I feel that because I am still putting a partial agonist opiate into my body every day, I still suffer from a bit of a decreased libido. Although it certainly has improved as my dose has gotten lower. However, the rest of what you've described as far as just feeling more enamored with him, wanting to be close to him and just in general having stronger feeling for him, I can relate to. Again, I think for me, it's just because when on my former DOC I just wasn't that interested in anything as much I should or would have been otherwise.
Well, I don't know if all that helped you at all Kelly B. But I do hope you're okay and that things are improving with your husband....hopefully he's not still sleeping on the couch! This disease is a destroyer of lives, marriages, relationships, finances....it covers the gamut. If anyone comes through with anything intact, they should be grateful for sure.
While I don't know that you'll find many who will have experienced this issue quite in the same way as you have...hey enjoy yourself and take advantage of how good you're feeling! Nothing wrong with that, at least not that I can see! Please let us know how you're doing.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:10 am 
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LOL sullimi, you might be right.
I personally was amazed to discover that I've slept through some mind-blowing stuff, like the big internet changeover (web1.0 to web2.0, frame to blocks page design, napster to torrents, etc.) and that thing about atom structure... it figures electrons don't have orbits anymore, they have shells!.. I also didn't watch the last season of Lost, which is deemed unforgivable by my partner and some of our friends... :)

Sorry, got a little off topic here.

But I'm really curious about endorphins though. For me its a bit personal... not just sex. Its the very nature of my relationship. I wonder if I would ever be able to experience that unique one-of-a-kind semi-hypnotic transcendental state that was so precious to me before I discovered heroin. I'm afraid to try, though, and be disappointed... devastated, that is. Its a big part of my life... I really want it back. Getting kinda greedy all of a sudden ) last year all I dreamt about was to learn how to walk again. Tsk-tsk-tsk, one more parking lot, one less paradise...

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 Post subject: follow up
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:25 pm 
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I apologize for going off on that bikini story. At the time, I was feeling so rejected by my husband, and I though many guys would love to have a woman who adores them. I was trying to rationalize why he should not ignore me, like hey, I'm not so bad! I apologize again because it did sound kind of bratty.

My husband spent 2 nights on the couch since I told him about my drug use. Now we have it all worked out and I am no longer crying every day. We have a marriage counseling appointment next week, which I think we will keep, even though things are great between us now.

He said he felt stupid for not knowing. Yet he is not mad at me. I find that so hard to believe. Yet I don't see any passive agressive behavior so I have to take him at his word. He was mad for the first few days after I told him.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:30 pm 
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I'm surprised among searching you didn't find my one post about decreased sex drive. It has been driving me nuts! And I just turned 30. But, I am happy to report that now I'm alternating between 8mgs and 4mgs and my sex drive is coming back! Thank the lord! It was starting to make me very grouchy!

Oh, and if you are 50 and prancing in a string bikini, more power to you! That is awesome! Post., post, post away about it!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:51 pm 
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@ Kelly, as I said I think it's great you celebrate your sexuality like so..no need to apologize, I can understand your frustration, hopefully your husband will come out of his rut, if he hasn't already.

@Math, I couldn't connect the bikini thing with what the OP was trying to say at the time, (it makes more sense now, seeing as it was about frustration and example, I was pretty out of it during "stabilizing." But let me just say, that doesn't mean because someone comments on the irrelevance of bikinis that they must need to loose weight. I can say with confidence, I'm quite svelte at my weight thank you!! =)


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 Post subject: Still there!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:05 pm 
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Just an update on the sex drive.

It is still there, as strong or stronger than ever. My poor H can't figure out why I am constantly chasing him. He says, "honey, we have been married over 20 years, why are you like this?" I went from not wanting sex at all and just doing it with him once or twice a year, to wanting it every day. Most of the time I have to find my own outlet because he just doesn't have that same level of interest. This is all healthy marriage stuff. Suboxone has really given me a new better life!!!

I'm tinkered with the dose, taking it either once or twice daily for a total of .15 - .25 mg/day. I am now trying to keep it at .15mg/day to see how that affects my sex drive and responsiveness.

My relationship with my H is really good now. We spend a lot of time together. Last night as we just sat around after dinner talking, he reminded me that a few months ago (when I was still taking norcos), that scene (sitting together, talking) would never have happened. He is right! All I wanted to do was hide behind my computer, reading material, or TV. I did not want to connect with him.

My emotions are right there, and I get a bit emotional esp. early in the morning; perhaps this is hormonal, similar to guys rebuilding their hormones overnight? My feelings surprise me - a stark contrast to a decade of not having any loving or hurt feelings. It's all good. I enjoy my feelings, even if they are feelings of sadness.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:59 pm 
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I was curious when i saw this topic and read how suboxone effects sex drives in women so differently. I am quite new to suboxone and just switched over from methadone a few days ago. I have noticed a serious boost in my mood, my energy level and also my sex drive. I am 26 years old and I have been married for 5 years. I love my husband but when we were both taking methadone everyday it made us both so tired. We still had sex but it wasnt like it was before we started on methadone maintenence. Now that we are adjusting to the suboxone I have noticed a whole new interest in our relationship. The other night it feels like we totally reconnected and got to know each other again for the ppl that we really are...not the ppl we are when we are/were high. It was so nice to just talk to each other and laugh. I swear we layed in our bed and talked for a couple of hours,,not about anything important but it felt so comforting and reassuring knowing that we are both getting back to how our life used to be before the methadone. I think just reconnecting with my husband helped my sex drive tremendously. I felt like myself not someone pumped full of narcotics lol I swear we have had sex every night..the kind that you just have to have right then and there..cant wait another minute for. I hope it stays this way and it may not considering I have only begun taking suboxone and my body still is adjusting but so far so good.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:57 pm 
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For most of the time I sniffed dope I didn't have a sex drive, and suboxone did nothing to improve it. No matter how much or how little I take... :( The only thing that improved my sex drive is a whole bunch of pregnancy hormones :P


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:51 am 
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Hi,
Great thread, really....I relate to what everyone has been talking about.
Kellyb-good for you! No need to apologize about string bikini!! I am 51 and before methadone was a size 2 and loving it after being married to a jerkface and gaining weight due to depression and domestic violence crappola. Now I am size 10!! YUCK. Oh, this is about sex drive, not weight!! I digress...

Sex drive. What is that? Before methadone I was highly sexual. My marriage was a sham and I was using vic then so it got lost...got it back after divorce and off vic, then back on vic and lost it again. Then to methadone. Methadone did help me stabilize. 2.5 years off the roller coaster of opiate addiction. Yet after getting up to 75mg the weight gain of 30# coupled with the blunted emotions and no sex drive made me a shell of a person. As everyone as talked about and i am so grateful for everyones honesty...(thank you!) I haven't engaged with anyone. It's work and even that was minimal and I am very much a go getter type A worker....lots of computer time (my ONLY relationship was with my dell) and tv. NO music and I play piano and drums and love music, NO sex....for almost 2 years now! UNREAL. Actually, I took time off dating after horrendous divorce to take care of myself better so it was self imposed but no libido was helpful.

Cuteness: you said you had just gone off methadone and switched to sub in Oct. I hope you are still reading and can tell me how you did it. I am day 4 off 75mg...taking a few vics to ease w/d (my physician said to do this) and feeling a bit worse but not enough to start subutex yet. I'm sick of waiting to tell you the truth. trying not to obsess about my every cough and sneeze and stay busy. I woke up feeling crappy but now feel a bit ok. Just don't want to start subutex too soon and hoping I can get some help with this from anyone who has experience. I was reading about tolerance vs. moderate withdrawals...not sure how to really measure tolerance except the fact of minimal w/d at this point means higher tolerance, except that 2 -5mg vics are taking away some symptoms so maybe my tolerance is decreasing now. Any thoughts or suggestions? I am going to see my daughter tomorrow...don't want to be sick obviously but don't want to start sub and get even sicker before I see her either. Over thinking most likely?

thanks for any help and good luck to everyone who is recovering and getting life back. I am more awake off the methadone, happier, more engaged and listening to music having fun driving again!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:43 am 
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My sex drive was very high before Suboxone and I just got married, and it is really effecting our relationship. It sucks! I mean I can fake it for him, or just please him but where is the fun for me? I don't even have the desire to please my self! I used to be a very sexual person and now nothing. I hate it. If any one knows anything that will help please share!!


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